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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
949
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 22:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:As valuable as your opinion is, CCP Stillman would be a better source I think.
Thx for giving me so much credit and let me refrain it again: you have as much impact on bots whatsoever as you had before with other tactics: little to none. And again the only impact you refuse to admit you might actually have is on some players number of subscriptions.
I'm quite sure you already have the old same answer and rabble about it, no one serious around expects you to admit it and already knows you don't care since it's not your problem but CCP's one. Therefore if you really had some interesting impact I guess they should have already gave you a forum medal or invite you for some Eve economics Noble price.
brb |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1775
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 22:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:As valuable as your opinion is, CCP Stillman would be a better source I think. Thx for giving me so much credit and let me refrain it again: you have as much impact on bots whatsoever as you had before with other tactics: little to none. And again the only impact you refuse to admit you might actually have is on some players number of subscriptions. I'm quite sure you already have the old same answer and rabble about it, no one serious around expects you to admit it and already knows you don't care since it's not your problem but CCP's one. Therefore if you really had some interesting impact I guess they should have already gave you a forum medal or invite you for some Eve economics Noble price. So basically you're saying there's no information to be had here, even if there is?
I'm not sure I understand why you would argue that your assumptions are better data than the real thing would be.
Regardless of your actual assumpions, that seems pretty deluded.
Thanks again, but I still hope for a reply from CCP about this. I think these are valid questions. Did botting in high-sec increase after the barge buffs?
That's what the OP asks. The question about the New Order's bumping campaign was tertiary. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Melvin Coulter
Cobalt Conspiracy Incorporated
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 22:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:As valuable as your opinion is, CCP Stillman would be a better source I think. Thx for giving me so much credit and let me refrain it again: you have as much impact on bots whatsoever as you had before with other tactics: little to none. And again the only impact you refuse to admit you might actually have is on some players number of subscriptions. I'm quite sure you already have the old same answer and rabble about it, no one serious around expects you to admit it and already knows you don't care since it's not your problem but CCP's one. Therefore if you really had some interesting impact I guess they should have already gave you a forum medal or invite you for some Eve economics Noble price. So basically you're saying there's no information to be had here, even if there is? I'm not sure I understand why you would argue that your assumptions are better data than the real thing would be. Regardless of your actual assumpions, that seems pretty deluded. Thanks again, but I still hope for a reply from CCP about this. I think these are valid questions. Did botting in high-sec increase after the barge buffs? That's what the OP asks. The question about the New Order's bumping campaign was tertiary. GENTLEMEN! AND LADY!
clam yourself!
we will have the answer once a dev answers!
Mining without a perimit,till the day I die |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1775
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 22:56:00 -
[64] - Quote
Melvin Coulter wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:As valuable as your opinion is, CCP Stillman would be a better source I think. Thx for giving me so much credit and let me refrain it again: you have as much impact on bots whatsoever as you had before with other tactics: little to none. And again the only impact you refuse to admit you might actually have is on some players number of subscriptions. I'm quite sure you already have the old same answer and rabble about it, no one serious around expects you to admit it and already knows you don't care since it's not your problem but CCP's one. Therefore if you really had some interesting impact I guess they should have already gave you a forum medal or invite you for some Eve economics Noble price. So basically you're saying there's no information to be had here, even if there is? I'm not sure I understand why you would argue that your assumptions are better data than the real thing would be. Regardless of your actual assumpions, that seems pretty deluded. Thanks again, but I still hope for a reply from CCP about this. I think these are valid questions. Did botting in high-sec increase after the barge buffs? That's what the OP asks. The question about the New Order's bumping campaign was tertiary. GENTLEMEN! AND LADY! clam yourself! we will have the answer once a dev answers! Eve Vegas didn't last a month and ten days did it? He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
949
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 22:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:As valuable as your opinion is, CCP Stillman would be a better source I think. Thx for giving me so much credit and let me refrain it again: you have as much impact on bots whatsoever as you had before with other tactics: little to none. And again the only impact you refuse to admit you might actually have is on some players number of subscriptions. I'm quite sure you already have the old same answer and rabble about it, no one serious around expects you to admit it and already knows you don't care since it's not your problem but CCP's one. Therefore if you really had some interesting impact I guess they should have already gave you a forum medal or invite you for some Eve economics Noble price. So basically you're saying there's no information to be had here, even if there is? I'm not sure I understand why you would argue that your assumptions are better data than the real thing would be. Regardless of your actual assumpions, that seems pretty deluded. Thanks again, but I still hope for a reply from CCP about this. I think these are valid questions. Did botting in high-sec increase after the barge buffs? That's what the OP asks. The question about the New Order's bumping campaign was tertiary.
Don't get me wrong, I'm also waiting that data. You probably forgot about it but I previously said that if the mining barges buff would make of high sec botland per excellence as you and Zim stated, I'd come back to say I was wrong.
Now I'm only hoping if the numbers show it differently that you are a nice guy and actually post your assumptions were wrong, but I already know you will not and actually will find a little number somewhere to justify your arguments even if you have to make the blind guy on obvious numbers.
brb |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1775
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 22:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:As valuable as your opinion is, CCP Stillman would be a better source I think. Thx for giving me so much credit and let me refrain it again: you have as much impact on bots whatsoever as you had before with other tactics: little to none. And again the only impact you refuse to admit you might actually have is on some players number of subscriptions. I'm quite sure you already have the old same answer and rabble about it, no one serious around expects you to admit it and already knows you don't care since it's not your problem but CCP's one. Therefore if you really had some interesting impact I guess they should have already gave you a forum medal or invite you for some Eve economics Noble price. So basically you're saying there's no information to be had here, even if there is? I'm not sure I understand why you would argue that your assumptions are better data than the real thing would be. Regardless of your actual assumpions, that seems pretty deluded. Thanks again, but I still hope for a reply from CCP about this. I think these are valid questions. Did botting in high-sec increase after the barge buffs? That's what the OP asks. The question about the New Order's bumping campaign was tertiary. Don't get me wrong, I'm also waiting that data. You probably forgot about it but I previously said that if the mining barges buff would make of high sec botland per excellence as you and Zim stated, I'd come back to say I was wrong. Now I'm only hoping if the numbers show it differently that you are a nice guy and actually post your assumptions were wrong, but I already know you will not and actually will find a little number somewhere to justify your arguments even if you have to make the blind guy on obvious numbers. Search these forums for my name and the phrase "I stand corrected" before making allegations such as this.
I would absolutely admit my error in the light of proof of said error.
There's a body of evidence to support as much, too. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Melvin Coulter
Cobalt Conspiracy Incorporated
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 23:03:00 -
[67] - Quote
*face plam*
FOR THE LOVE OF THE AMARRIAN GODS! CAN WE GET A DEV?! Mining without a perimit,till the day I die |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1777
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 18:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
Face Palm is right.
Eve Vegas was over, when?
We're still waiting CCP. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Melvin Coulter
Cobalt Conspiracy Incorporated
27
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 18:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
well maybe if we go off topic?
they seem to appear for that.
Waiting for dev... Mining without a perimit,till the day I die |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1777
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 19:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
Melvin Coulter wrote:well maybe if we go off topic?
they seem to appear for that.
Waiting for dev... Fine. Story time.
When I started my first free 14 day trial for Eve nearly eight years ago, CCP had no trouble telling me right in the login screen (it was a news item) that I couldn't log in on my free trial because they were trying to combat macro-miners (I'm not joking that's what they called them) by throttling free trial logins.
I literally couldn't try Eve Online when the download finished because of bot miners tying up connection sockets. Bots and the AFK miners who so closely mimic them literally kept me from being able to try Eve. So I want to know if game changes favor that which I have come to loathe in Eve Online for game-health and economic reasons alike.
Seven years later and here we are. Mum's the word on "macro-miners," who somehow still seem (at least from a recent game design standpoint) to be Preferred CustomersTM.
So I went off-topic a little bit, but then I went back on-topic to keep it legit. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
953
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Melvin Coulter wrote:well maybe if we go off topic?
they seem to appear for that.
Waiting for dev... Fine. Story time. When I started my first free 14 day trial for Eve nearly eight years ago, CCP had no trouble telling me right in the login screen (it was a news item) that I couldn't log in on my free trial because they were trying to combat macro-miners (I'm not joking that's what they called them) by throttling free trial logins. I literally couldn't try Eve Online when the download finished because of bot miners tying up connection sockets. Bots and the AFK miners who so closely mimic them literally kept me from being able to try Eve. So I want to know if game changes favor that which I have come to loathe in Eve Online for game-health and economic reasons alike. Seven years later and here we are. Mum's the word on "macro-miners," who somehow still seem (at least from a recent game design standpoint) to be Preferred CustomersTM. So I went off-topic a little bit, but then I went back on-topic to keep it legit.
So it's all about an earlier age psychological trauma?
OK ok, I'm out, and for good this time. brb |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
195
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
I would looking through he past postings of the Nosey gamer as he has been tracking the activity o te tears of botters
At http://nosygamer.blogspot.ca/ Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Melvin Coulter
Cobalt Conspiracy Incorporated
27
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:59:00 -
[73] - Quote
*suddenly a mythical dev appears* Mining without a perimit,till the day I die |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
405
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 21:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Maybe, just maybe, CCP has other things on its mind that answering this thread (I think there is some kind of release that overhauls 4 different game systems arriving in 2 weeks), though I do believe it is a valid question re: botting.
But maybe you should also consider a few things:
1. Trit and Pyerite are not far off their 1 year high (could be a lot longer than that). 2. Demand for mins is not going down with the increased min requirements for T1 cruisers Dec 5th, unless of course null sec decides not every player needs his own supercap. 3. Whether it is true or not, the rage against miners just seems to ratchet up further, and I would be very surprised if goons et al do not start up some kind of bounty griefing campaign against miners Dec 4th.
Putting all those things together, maybe, just maybe, CCP has decided that not only do they like the additional subs they get with mining bots, but CCP has also decided that the CCP economy NEEDS mining bots to keep mineral prices down, until they can overhaul supercap min requirements. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
953
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 21:14:00 -
[75] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:I would looking through he past postings of the Nosey gamer as he has been tracking the activity o te tears of botters At http://nosygamer.blogspot.ca/
Self explanatory why so many threads tearing about isk value in game. Needs more isk in the game, not less, let RMT tears commence.
This explains that. Heck I'm still around when I clearly shouldn't... brb |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
483
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 02:11:00 -
[76] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Putting all those things together, maybe, just maybe, CCP has decided that not only do they like the additional subs they get with mining bots, but CCP has also decided that the CCP economy NEEDS mining bots to keep mineral prices down, until they can overhaul supercap min requirements.
Typical botter response if I'm honest. Bots ruin the game full stop. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Melvin Coulter
Cobalt Conspiracy Incorporated
28
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 02:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
all of you just please stop.
All we have to do is wait or SCREAM for a dev. Mining without a perimit,till the day I die |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
407
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 06:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Putting all those things together, maybe, just maybe, CCP has decided that not only do they like the additional subs they get with mining bots, but CCP has also decided that the CCP economy NEEDS mining bots to keep mineral prices down, until they can overhaul supercap min requirements.
Typical botter response if I'm honest. Bots ruin the game full stop.
Let's see....first you promise to grief me out of the game with bounties on my head. Now you are stating I am a bot. I don't think honesty is something you can fathom.
Go for it. File a petition stating that this account is running bots. CCP will be able to look at my activity in about 5 minutes and see that you are lying.
But I would expect something as cowardly from you. Only 14 days to go sleaze. Have you started your grief fund yet against me? Like I said in one of my posts to you, which of course you ignored, that 500M against me is not even something I will begin to worry about. You better add a zero to that before I get worried.
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
488
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 09:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:[quote=Inquisitor Kitchner][quote=Dinsdale Pirannha] Like I said in one of my posts to you, which of course you ignored, that 500M against me is not even something I will begin to worry about. You better add a zero to that before I get worried.
You should probably think a bit more about that.
A 500m bounty is enough to ensure that you can't fly anything too expensive without making it worth someone's while to kill you.
20% of your ship value is payed out, so 500m actually covers all the way up to a ship worth 2.5bil.
"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
570
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 10:09:00 -
[80] - Quote
Keep things civil folks. The guys who know the numbers know this thread exists, but things are obviously very busy around the office as we ramp up to Retribution. Additionally, Sreegs is one of the main dudes running the New Eden Open.
I can't promise you anything, but I suspect they'll have more time to get answers after Retribution launches when they can properly sit down and present the information fully. Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
369
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 10:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
Sgt Napalm wrote:Sadly, Stillman and Streggs were never seen again after Vegas. This is actually pretty close.
I got sick in Vegas and was out sick for 4 weeks. That caused me to completely forget about this.
I ran the numbers. And if anything, we're seeing a lower number of bots we're catching in high-sec, in favor of 0.0. But I don't think the trend is big enough for it to be more than speculation. To give you an idea, a best fit line on the data I have is like this:
High-sec: y1 = -0.0011x + 0.773 0.0: y2 = 0.0008x + 0.1651
You can sort of deduce from that how low-sec plays out. But regardless, I don't think we can really draw any conclusion from this data. Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
2893
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 10:50:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Sgt Napalm wrote:Sadly, Stillman and Streggs were never seen again after Vegas. This is actually pretty close. I got sick in Vegas and was out sick for 4 weeks. That caused me to completely forget about this. I ran the numbers. And if anything, we're seeing a lower number of bots we're catching in high-sec, in favor of 0.0. But I don't think the trend is big enough for it to be more than speculation. To give you an idea, a best fit line on the data I have is like this: High-sec: y1 = -0.0011x + 0.773 0.0: y2 = 0.0008x + 0.1651 You can sort of deduce from that how low-sec plays out. But regardless, I don't think we can really draw any conclusion from this data.
As a lover of numbers and graphs I have to ask if it is possible to see what kind of impact the two ice interdictions had on bot numbers at the start of the year also what impact the drone changes have had. We know they were raging but we do love our numbers and graphs. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
488
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 10:50:00 -
[83] - Quote
+1 for Dev response.
I still think EVE devs are pretty unique in the way they interact with the playerbase, so thank you. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1778
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 18:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Sgt Napalm wrote:Sadly, Stillman and Streggs were never seen again after Vegas. This is actually pretty close. I got sick in Vegas and was out sick for 4 weeks. That caused me to completely forget about this. I ran the numbers. And if anything, we're seeing a lower number of bots we're catching in high-sec, in favor of 0.0. But I don't think the trend is big enough for it to be more than speculation. To give you an idea, a best fit line on the data I have is like this: High-sec: y1 = -0.0011x + 0.773 0.0: y2 = 0.0008x + 0.1651 You can sort of deduce from that how low-sec plays out. But regardless, I don't think we can really draw any conclusion from this data. Lin was right then, apparently, and I'll admit that my presumption was speculatively wrong (as even Stillman mentions the trend isn't big enough to be more than speculation).
Strangely, bot-friendly game design appears to have reduced the number of bots caught in high-sec.
I've got to admit I didn't see this coming. I stand corrected. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1159
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 18:47:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Sgt Napalm wrote:Sadly, Stillman and Streggs were never seen again after Vegas. This is actually pretty close. I got sick in Vegas and was out sick for 4 weeks. That caused me to completely forget about this. I ran the numbers. And if anything, we're seeing a lower number of bots we're catching in high-sec, in favor of 0.0. But I don't think the trend is big enough for it to be more than speculation. To give you an idea, a best fit line on the data I have is like this: High-sec: y1 = -0.0011x + 0.773 0.0: y2 = 0.0008x + 0.1651 You can sort of deduce from that how low-sec plays out. But regardless, I don't think we can really draw any conclusion from this data. Sorry to hear about your illness. 4 weeks? Rough, and totally not fun.
Thanks for responding. Questions:
Are Y1 and Y2 the number of bots caught? Per hour? Per day? Per week? Is this per solar system or for the entire area ? Or is it per 1000 players?
Is x the system security? Or day of the year, or...?
Why the conclusion that most are caught in null sec? in both equations the effect of x is small, so the constant dominates. High sec has this at 0.773. Null sec is about one quarter of that value: 0.1651. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1778
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 18:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Stillman wrote:Sgt Napalm wrote:Sadly, Stillman and Streggs were never seen again after Vegas. This is actually pretty close. I got sick in Vegas and was out sick for 4 weeks. That caused me to completely forget about this. I ran the numbers. And if anything, we're seeing a lower number of bots we're catching in high-sec, in favor of 0.0. But I don't think the trend is big enough for it to be more than speculation. To give you an idea, a best fit line on the data I have is like this: High-sec: y1 = -0.0011x + 0.773 0.0: y2 = 0.0008x + 0.1651 You can sort of deduce from that how low-sec plays out. But regardless, I don't think we can really draw any conclusion from this data. Sorry to hear about your illness. 4 weeks? Rough, and totally not fun. Thanks for responding. Questions: Are Y1 and Y2 the number of bots caught? Per hour? Per day? Per week? Is this per solar system or for the entire area ? Or is it per 1000 players? Is x the system security? Or day of the year, or...? Why the conclusion that most are caught in null sec? in both equations the effect of x is small, so the constant dominates. High sec has this at 0.773. Null sec is about one quarter of that value: 0.1651.
That costant is addative. It's linear algebra. When the line slopes down far enough the constant vanishes. It's only there to determine positioning. The "small term" of "x" determines the slope of the line. The "constant" as you refer to it is actually the y-intercept.
So we have orientation of the line from its slope (very gradual reduction in high-sec, very gradual increase in low) and the y-intercept (your costant) basically tells us where to put it.
As it were. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
ctx2007
Wychwood and Wells Beer needs you
186
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 18:57:00 -
[87] - Quote
rodyas wrote:CCP Stillman wrote:Salpun wrote:captain foivos wrote:Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas. Most EVE Vegas presentations come out as devblogs sooner rather then later. http://lowseclifestyle.blogspot.com./ Is a good location to find otu what was sayed. I can write it into a dev blog too. But please give us some time, as I'm currently in Vegas still and Sreegs has his hands full right now. Dead prostitutes? I am guessing.
Hahahahahha! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2763
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 19:22:00 -
[88] - Quote
Quote:I got sick in Vegas and was out sick for 4 weeks. That caused me to completely forget about this.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
369
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 21:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: Lin was right then, apparently, and I'll admit that my presumption was speculatively wrong (as even Stillman mentions the trend isn't big enough to be more than speculation).
Strangely, bot-friendly game design appears to have slightly reduced the number of bots caught in high-sec.
I've got to admit I didn't see this coming. I stand corrected.
Edit: Thanks for the data, Stillman. Your reply is very well appareciated.
Re-edit: Also, glad you're feeling better. Apparently not everything that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas after all.
I still question the idea that the change was inherently bot friendly vs AFK friendly.
To be specific I wonder if things like reduced need for trips to unload and/or increased EHP for gank resistance reduced the gains from bot usage to a point where they were not worth the risk of detection given the revitalization of CCP's bot detection and banning initiatives. At the very least it can probably be concluded that they gains of botting weren't worth risking detection for those not already engaged in the practice as AFK mining got easier. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.11.20 21:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Darth Gustav wrote: Lin was right then, apparently, and I'll admit that my presumption was speculatively wrong (as even Stillman mentions the trend isn't big enough to be more than speculation).
Strangely, bot-friendly game design appears to have slightly reduced the number of bots caught in high-sec.
I've got to admit I didn't see this coming. I stand corrected.
Edit: Thanks for the data, Stillman. Your reply is very well appareciated.
Re-edit: Also, glad you're feeling better. Apparently not everything that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas after all.
I still question the idea that the change was inherently bot friendly vs AFK friendly. To be specific I wonder if things like reduced need for trips to unload and/or increased EHP for gank resistance reduced the gains from bot usage to a point where they were not worth the risk of detection given the revitalization of CCP's bot detection and banning initiatives. At the very least it can probably be concluded that they gains of botting weren't worth risking detection for those not already engaged in the practice as AFK mining got easier.
Mining bots are for kids and stupid, CCP Shreegs did an awesome job at kicking those right in the face and still does, however the most difficult ones to spot, at least it seems, are market bots.
If you realise or at least imagine how much isk trade bots can do, then you should logically figure out the rest of the process.
What are bots used for? -always for real money in the end. Even if the guy starts by just buying shiny ships/mods it ends selling isk for money because there's demand. Where does this demand comes from? -look at plex prices and do you researches on the internet, search for threads in this very same forum confusing isk with real money, and you should then be able to figure out where's their new "El Dorado".
Bingo, you got it. Yes there are guys around only login in for this reason, because isk for them = money, real money.
1 or 2 trillions of isk, which shouldn't be that difficult to do with a couple market bots in a month x $29/Billion isk (average) I'll let you run the numbers to figure out why some take this isk inflation/deflation so seriously.
The game doesn't need less isk, the game needs more isk, like it or hate it it's a fact.
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