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Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
385
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Posted - 2011.10.06 15:50:00 -
[151] - Quote
so we can go "hey, guys, buy lots of guidance systems at 418/unit" or "hey guys, buy lots of oxygen isotopes" and we enrich our members without them having to do horrid stuff like ratting or the like |
Atima
House of Marbles
11
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Posted - 2011.10.06 19:55:00 -
[152] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Elise DarkStar wrote:RAW23 wrote:I understand how a focus on individual isk-making can undermine morale and community (e.g. NC and Atlas) but I'm struggling to see what the negative effect would be of utilising, say, 30 members of an enormous alliance in a way that doubled or tripled the income received directly from holding space. That's a fair point, and I believe that's the direction Goons are going with their "finance" or "market" team. The historically corrosive effect is why modern top-end alliances are hesitant to go down that road, though you're right in that there is obviously some optimum balance that can be met. goonswarm has a very good finance team because before we had one we forgot to pay the space rent and lost all our space as a result good finances enable effective alliance pvp support and financial knowledge enables focused economic terrorism
Given access to your resources, they should be making alot more that 173bn per month.
We didn't want that all that isk anyway? |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2011.10.06 20:46:00 -
[153] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:173bil I had no idea that major alliances had such low incomes (well, actually I had an inkling when I read the chatlogs surrounding the fall of Atlas and their squabbling over a few hundred bil). Presumably this is a peace-time figure and goes down considerably with major combat operations?
We told you nullsec needs an income buff. We're starving out here.
We don't run reaction towers at an alliance level because there is a chronic shortage of people that are willing to do boring POS stuff for free. It's different in a 3 man corp, because you're getting the profits. In a huge alliance, reaction farm guys are working their tails off to make a rich alliance slightly richer. We also don't mine any but the most valuable moons as an alliance, to help keep our precious logistics team from burning out.
I believe we do sell raw goo to corps and individuals locally at jita prices (saving both us and the buyer the cost of shipping). They can mine the less valuable moons themselves, react their brains out, and then sell for personal profit. That won't show up on the alliance finance sheet though, because it's not alliance profit. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
814
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Posted - 2011.10.07 05:13:00 -
[154] - Quote
Nomad I wrote:The Mittani wrote: guys guys guys everyone with a pos has months of fuel stockpiled because it's the rational thing to do, 'heh'
You are a good alliance leader, but not a capitalist. A serious capitalist don't try to stockpile because such an investment gives no profit. Read this book instead of using hilarious paintings from China on Kugu.
i've read das kapital and watched the david harvey lectures, i know a thing or two about stuff, also money
since i retired at 31
i was mocking the md idiots who have been howling that this won't make any impact due to stockpilesstockpilesstockpiles. |
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.10.07 05:26:00 -
[155] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Nomad I wrote:The Mittani wrote: guys guys guys everyone with a pos has months of fuel stockpiled because it's the rational thing to do, 'heh'
You are a good alliance leader, but not a capitalist. A serious capitalist don't try to stockpile because such an investment gives no profit. Read this book instead of using hilarious paintings from China on Kugu. i've read das kapital and watched the david harvey lectures, i know a thing or two about stuff, also money since i retired at 31 i was mocking the md idiots who have been howling that this won't make any impact due to stockpilesstockpilesstockpiles.
It's been said multiple times that the only real thing that would cause Oxytope prices to revert back to their old moving average would be a premature halt to the interdiction campaign. I find it highly unlikely that null and lowsec production will increase enough to meet the lost supply considering that there are much more lucrative activities for nullsec bot accounts to engage in than ice mining.
Hey Mittens, I posted an idea in the new Letters of Marque subforum that might tickle your communist space pirate fancy, and ensure increased fervor amongst the Dread Pirate ranks. |
Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
2
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Posted - 2011.10.07 08:26:00 -
[156] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:173bil I had no idea that major alliances had such low incomes
Huh. This. (Assuming you trust their oddly-public spreadsheet.)
*compares his own monthly profit to 173B, divides, and comes away rather satisfied*
If you magically had 3x your current profit, what would you spend it on? Supercaps? |
Alaizabel Bronstein
United Engineering Services
1
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Posted - 2011.10.07 08:39:00 -
[157] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:i've read das kapital and watched the david harvey lectures, i know a thing or two about stuff, also money 1st volume of Das Kapital is worthless read the Grundrisse and the 3rd volume instead or gtfo |
Vio Geraci
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2011.10.07 09:09:00 -
[158] - Quote
The measure of an alliance's financial success is not how rich the alliance is, but how rich the members are. Hope this helps! |
Guillaume LeConquerant
Kernel of War Goonswarm Federation
31
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Posted - 2011.10.07 09:12:00 -
[159] - Quote
ITT people think that the goal of the game is to make isk. |
Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
2
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Posted - 2011.10.07 09:30:00 -
[160] - Quote
Guillaume LeConquerant wrote:ITT people think that the goal of the game is to make isk.
It's a sandbox game. If someone were to say they get the most enjoyment out of EVE by deciding that the objective is to roll around in pools full of money, you can't really "prove them wrong."
That being said, for many such invented sandbox objectives, even ones that aren't explicitly financial, having a bunch of cash on hand surely helps. |
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Vio Geraci
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2011.10.07 09:46:00 -
[161] - Quote
I'd hire a vast swarm of ADD-addled, barely literate man children to camp every blue ice belt in high sec. Maybe I'd buy a region or three for people I liked or at least recognized. Maybe I'd fly some fun ships in PvP and get some friends to come with me by reimbursing their losses. Also I'd probably spend the ISK to increase my financial clout to the point where the CSM was lined with good friends so that I could direct the course of the entire game. Just some thoughts. |
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.10.07 09:52:00 -
[162] - Quote
Kethas Protagonist wrote:Edit: My earlier question stands, too. I'm curious what you guys would do if you woke up and found a golden egg that spits out 300B/month. Also: "spitting egg" has some interesting hits on google.
My guess would be find the goose that laid said egg, forget to feed it, then have intercourse with its feathery, buttery corpse. |
Claire Voyant
4
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Posted - 2011.10.07 11:26:00 -
[163] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:i was mocking the md idiots who have been howling that this won't make any impact due to stockpilesstockpilesstockpiles. More like: The price impact will not be as big as expected because of stockpiles, caldari towers, and short attention spans. |
Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.10.07 12:23:00 -
[164] - Quote
The pressure on the OI price is high. It's looking like that some have bought to much and try to panik sell the OI. Until now, I can't see a shortage of OI. The question is, how much is part of a speculation and how much part of a stockpiling to secure running POSes for some weeks. |
Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.10.07 13:22:00 -
[165] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:[quote=Nomad I][quote=The Mittani]
i've read das kapital and watched the david harvey lectures, i know a thing or two about stuff, also money
since i retired at 31
I can't beat that. |
Rydra Wong
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
3
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Posted - 2011.10.07 13:51:00 -
[166] - Quote
One of the reasons why alliances do not (generally) take all the isk for "The alliance" has already been highlighted; You don't want to burnout your core teams and your core players who help keep your corp and your alliance running smoothly.
The reason for not wanting the isk, is rich corps and alliances do not make good gameplay. If all your members are mostly poor, making just enough to maintain their normal losses each week/month, while working their behinds off to see your alliance rich.... It puts all the emphasis on your corp/alliance infrastructure and leadership to do something with that isk.
This then results in your members becoming reliant on someone else doing everything for them. This is not good for the game, it causes detachment of the player. They have no care for the things they have because they didn't have to work for it, they just go out shoot stuff, and at the end get given a new one when it's lost. This means when bigger meaner alliance comes along and takes your space, or little corp thief walks off with your entire ship stock, your alliance and it's apparent wealth becomes useless.
The ultimate ideal is for all your members to make their own riches one way or another, and find their own enjoyment in the game. The corp and the alliance become enablers to achieve that wealth, achieve their goals and maintain a level of entertainment.
If at the end of the month, your large alliance is capable of making 180bn isk per month, you have options for enhancing their experience within the game. It could be you buy some new supers for your trusted members to play in, buying 10,000 thorax to gank mack's in, buying BPO sets for your members to build new toys with, whatever that may be. Watching 0's tick past on an alliance wallet does not enhance your members gameplay. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
391
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Posted - 2011.10.07 13:59:00 -
[167] - Quote
Atima wrote: Given access to your resources, they should be making alot more that 173bn per month.
We didn't want that all that isk anyway?
173b is our 'profit' the amount of income over fixed expenses (it is also much lower than that because I am slightly :effort: about updating our expenses tally and we spend money on single-shot things frequently, but I keep the income one up to date)
we try to keep money going out the door relatively quickly: our isk is for better things than sitting in a pile. of course, a reasonably sized pile is a v. good thing but when we have excess money, we spend it on something fun or strategically necessary |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
391
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Posted - 2011.10.07 14:01:00 -
[168] - Quote
we make something like 350-400b a month |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
816
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Posted - 2011.10.07 16:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Vio Geraci wrote:I'd hire a vast swarm of ADD-addled, barely literate man children to camp every blue ice belt in high sec. Maybe I'd buy a region or three for people I liked or at least recognized. Maybe I'd fly some fun ships in PvP and get some friends to come with me by reimbursing their losses. Also I'd probably spend the ISK to increase my financial clout to the point where the CSM was lined with good friends so that I could direct the course of the entire game. Just some thoughts.
hey this sounds like a good plan vio let's do this
|
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
3
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Posted - 2011.10.07 17:58:00 -
[170] - Quote
I don't get all the drama over the Goons' finances. To be honest, they sound like one of the most economically aware alliances out there. Sure, they could wring more out of their space at the alliance level, but that sort of thinking reminds me of the slack-jawed yuppies in those finance tv commercials who worry that their money could be "doing more". Their alliance could also be "doing less", say, if it broke up or got chased out of nullsec.
Edit: Finding a profitable use for "ADD-addled, barely literate man children" has got to count for something too. |
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Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
6
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Posted - 2011.10.07 18:23:00 -
[171] - Quote
Tasko Pal wrote:Finding a profitable use for "ADD-addled, barely literate man children" has got to count for something too. that is actually the only talent you need in eve |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
816
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Posted - 2011.10.07 19:11:00 -
[172] - Quote
Tasko Pal wrote:I don't get all the drama over the Goons' finances. To be honest, they sound like one of the most economically aware alliances out there. Sure, they could wring more out of their space at the alliance level, but that sort of thinking reminds me of the slack-jawed yuppies in those finance tv commercials who worry that their money could be "doing more". Their alliance could also be "doing less", say, if it broke up or got chased out of nullsec.
Edit: Finding a profitable use for "ADD-addled, barely literate man children" has got to count for something too.
alliances are often run as ponzi schemes to extract capital and then they fail militarily. see: every NC alliance
goonswarm is basically a stalinist institution, we try to spend all the isk our alliance accumulates on our members as rapidly as possible so they don't have to suffer through the worst aspects of the game (ie, PVE of any kind) and can focus on grief and hate |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
816
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Posted - 2011.10.07 19:11:00 -
[173] - Quote
Nomad I wrote:The Mittani wrote:[quote=Nomad I][quote=The Mittani]
i've read das kapital and watched the david harvey lectures, i know a thing or two about stuff, also money
since i retired at 31
I can't beat that.
i'm bored as hell at 33 so it ain't all wine and roses |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
17
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Posted - 2011.10.07 19:34:00 -
[174] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:i'm bored as hell at 33 so it ain't all wine and roses
Write a book.
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1126
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Posted - 2011.10.07 19:34:00 -
[175] - Quote
Killstealing wrote:Tasko Pal wrote:Finding a profitable use for "ADD-addled, barely literate man children" has got to count for something too. that is actually the only talent you need in eve That is actually the only talent you need in life, to be an effective leader. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
9
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Posted - 2011.10.07 21:20:00 -
[176] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Nomad I wrote:The Mittani wrote:[quote=Nomad I][quote=The Mittani]
i've read das kapital and watched the david harvey lectures, i know a thing or two about stuff, also money
since i retired at 31
I can't beat that. i'm bored as hell at 33 so it ain't all wine and roses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g
Watch this on repeat for 24 hours.
It probably won't fix your boredom, or anything. |
Vio Geraci
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.10.07 22:47:00 -
[177] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Write a book.
Please do not encourage him. |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
17
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Posted - 2011.10.07 22:52:00 -
[178] - Quote
Vio Geraci wrote:Please do not encourage him.
Dude, you're dissuading an opinionated, intelligent, independent wordsmith from tackling issues in the modern intellectual landscape? That's the contemporary version of stabbing the caveman who's showing everyone how to start fire.
|
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.10.08 00:38:00 -
[179] - Quote
the Jabber channel is called gonegalt for a reason. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
820
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Posted - 2011.10.08 03:31:00 -
[180] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Vio Geraci wrote:Please do not encourage him. Dude, you're dissuading an opinionated, intelligent, independent wordsmith from tackling issues in the modern intellectual landscape? That's the contemporary version of stabbing the caveman who's showing everyone how to start fire.
argh you have found my achilles heel, my utter weakness to flattery and my monstrous, overweening ego and pride in the quality of my writing
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
(i'd like to write a book but idk what about, i'm **** with fiction and the nonfiction market's a bit ****)
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