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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 57 post(s) |
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CCP Bayesian
409
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Back at the end of February CCP t0rfifrans announced Team Avatar and that one of our priorities was prototyping, specifically to:
"...create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company... The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay, have a good demonstrable idea of why it is engaging and better understand the technology we will need to create in order to make it a reality."
The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information!
Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and Exploration
There has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay. That is exploring hazardous environments in order to get awesome stuff. Think scanning down a site before entering it in order to find and salvage artifacts, technology and other goodies. Sounds straightforward and it would be but for the dangerous nature of delving into long lost places where time has taken its toll on the structure and the previous owners may not have left things in a benign state. In true EVE style throw in the added dangers of lurking competition and things have a chance to go south fast. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few.
Over three months we concentrated on the minute by minute gameplay of actually being inside a long abandoned structure, the hazards that it would contain and how the players might deal with them and any uninvited guests. We used the Unity engine which is a great game engine for prototyping in as it lets us create environments and gameplay very, very fast and iterate on it equally quickly. A lot of our art is much more abstract (a "grey box") than youGÇÖd see in a final game. This is due to us concentrating on the gameplay first and foremost whilst also recognizing that ambience plays an important role in how a game feels. We do throw in the occasional EVE asset here and there for flavor but those are not descriptive of any final theming or style.
The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. Some of us are enthusiastically and maliciously killing teammates for personal gain. WeGÇÖve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose.
ItGÇÖs a part of the EVE Universe
There have been a lot of questions on the forums about how this integrates with EVE. Whilst this isnGÇÖt the core focus for us at the moment it is something we are thinking about long and hard. Like DUST514, this part of EVE should contribute to the overall economy as well as supporting its own ecosystem. Right now weGÇÖre thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits. Obviously with access to clones you arenGÇÖt worried about radiation and long term health effects of hazardous lifestyles. You probably all smoke and eat lots of bacon as well and besides robots wonGÇÖt survive the violent EM fields. Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within. One example of a link with EVE gameplay weGÇÖre thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesnGÇÖt want to use it from having to use it.
A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations.
That just sounds like one idea...
We decided to concentrate in depth on the one idea that has kept resurfacing from lots of different places within the company. WeGÇÖve had several others and collected a lot both internally and from the forums. One example would be a Station based espionage system. The beauty of the EVE Universe is that these ideas arenGÇÖt mutually exclusive for the most part. So whilst I think we are fairly sure of the initial gameplay direction there is lots of scope for expansion.
EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
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CCP Unifex
C C P C C P Alliance
242
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE.
At CCP we are now making sure that when great gameplay concepts such as these come along, we take time to assess what would be required to take them out of the concept phase, into our engine, through pre-production and into production. We must also consider how it interacts with everything else we are doing both within EVE and CCP as a whole. One of the great achievements of this piece of work is that it has really proved it is possible to rapidly iterate on new experiences without having to make a huge investment up front.
Once this prototype was demoed and I had played it (being beaten by CCP Explorer and team in the process), then came the next part. Working out what would be needed to put this concept into the game for real. The team worked together to put a pre-production and production plan together using what they had learned over the previous months and also the lessons learned from the Incarna efforts from last year.
The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. Executive Producer of EVE Online |
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Adoro
Reikoku The Retirement Club
10
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
An avatar used to be a little picture everybody ignored with the occasional "dude your face". I still treat it that way... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
917
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
EVA, eh? That's actually not such a bad idea for avatar based gameplay. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1573
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yay Team Avatar makes a comeback , would it be possible to have an official dev blog and a sneak peek at what you've been working on? I know that there was one in the works a while back but it never materialised Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Alice Saki
9329
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
TATTOO'S :D Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
227
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Guns... or clubs? And Strip-clubs! |
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CCP Bayesian
411
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Yay Team Avatar makes a comeback , would it be possible to have an official dev blog and a sneak peek at what you've been working on? I know that there was one in the works a while back but it never materialised
This forum posted is an edited version of that devblog and sorry the video won't be coming out. We should be doing another roundtable at fanfest though. EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1573
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:
This forum posted is an edited version of that devblog and sorry the video won't be coming out. We should be doing another roundtable at fanfest though.
Bugger , was worth a try though Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
462
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
sounds cool... but don't focus too much energy on it... you still need to fix much more in space also... I would rather have you develope this slowly, while fixing in space faster than having you rush this stuff out Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
722
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Good to see CCP is focusing its talents and not smearing them out over lord knows how many projects.
Sounds great tough! Meaningful avatar play.
Don't forget to use one of those bars you see/saw floating in some missions to put those in use as well, when ever you get to allocate the sources needed for this. When ever I ran into those I always thought of 'Porky's in space'. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
383
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2757
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us?
No. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
723
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us?
How in himmelsname did you get to that? Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Heian Galanodel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Looking forward to it! I can wait. Patience. Waiting.
/me looks at his wristwatch.
Waiting.
/me taps foot.
/me looks up and sees people.
/me smiles and waves. "I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á -From Blade Runner- |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
383
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us? How in himmelsname did you get to that?
Well the door needs unlocked to go get the EVA suit?....I just want non-spaceshippy sci fi gameplay sprinkled with the spaceship gameplay. This isn't supposed to be space ship only. Eve set out to be the world's largest and greatest SCIENCE FICTION SIMULATOR, not just a spaceship simulator. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
356
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
384
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential
I'd rather see those
*SPOILERS*
zombie caretaker things the architects left behind that attacked the first Amarrians to explore inside a Sleeper facility
*SPOILERS*
than any rogue drone. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2759
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential
Well it would be kind of disappointing to enter an abandoned radiation filled space station, that is too hazardous for complex electronics to work, only to find out that all the lights and artificial gravity are working without problems. |
Alice Saki
9347
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
(Zero Gravity)
:P Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
386
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential Well it would be kind of disappointing to enter an abandoned radiation filled space station, that is too hazardous for complex electronics to work, only to find out that all the lights and artificial gravity are working without problems.
Anything other than seeing areas like this when walking into a sleeper facility will disappoint me. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
356
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
More than that, I am an immortal capsuleer capable of taking and discarding planets, flesh and souls as a child would toys, and I do not expect having to tolerate wearing boots of the non-magneto variety |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
888
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
First of all I want to say that I love this idea, and if/when it comes out I'll probably play the hell out of it.
BUT, and this is the big but:
How does it fit into EVE as a game?
Without seeing the prototype, judging only by your post, I just can't see any connection between my exploration party derping around a space station looking for artifacts, and the grand political strategy of empires made up of thousands of players fighting each other for space dominance. It could just as well be a whole new game set in the EVE universe, only loosely if at all connected to the EVE game at all (not unlike Dust).
I don't see how the avatar gameplay could bring anything new to the player-player interaction EVE is based upon. In the form you describe it as, I don't expect it to become anything more than PI right now - just a gimmicky minigame to gather X resource. Only without the meta-game of fighting over planets. I don't see why I should prefer EVE-avatar-sim over activating a codebreaker module, and playing a proper full FPS/3PS game afterwards.
And just to show that I'm not simply whining for the sake of keeping the status quo, here is my idea I came up with in about 10 minutes:
Many people want there to be more significant content for smaller groups of people. So allow players to board/infiltrate an enemy Infrastructure hub, and hack the upgrades installed within. Or for larger squads even disable station services. The IHub's owners in the same system will be alerted can also enter and defend it. Otherwise it's defended by automated platforms (possibly allow these to be upgraded as an IHub upgrade too).
If the attacker succeeds, the hacked upgrade(s) will be disabled for a period of time, or until the attackers are driven out by the defenders. The longer the attacker can hold the hack, the longer the upgrades are disabled. This encourages both sides to reinforce the ongoing avatar battle with more spaceships bringing in troops, and to stop the enemy from doing the same. If the respawn mechanic of avatars somehow depends on who is holding the space grid over the IHub, the fight could quickly escalate to a battle both in space and in the corridors.
Once it works out and if people generally like it, it could also be implemented as an alternative way of reinforcing or taking over IHubs - instead of blowing it up and putting up your own, you could simply take it over with ground troops. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
102
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oh boy i like... "it put ore down in can or it gets the hose again" |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2760
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential Well it would be kind of disappointing to enter an abandoned radiation filled space station, that is too hazardous for complex electronics to work, only to find out that all the lights and artificial gravity are working without problems. Anything other than seeing areas like this when walking into a sleeper facility will disappoint me.
I'm just hoping they make the most of the premise they have created. Altering gravity and lighting conditions should be taken in to account and possible allow them to be re-enabled through exploring the site. It would allow for more intense atmosphere, more creative maps and additional gameplay by allowing them to be restored. Such restoration could allow access to previously locked areas within the site or just make it easier notice items of opportunity, that are easy to miss in the darkness. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
912
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
/me waves hand
Make it so!
Seriously, great exciting treat today from you guys.
Don't hesitate and delay. Also the espionage gameplay sounds great, and I'd like to see it fleshed out as well.
Gratz on finally getting the blog out! Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
257
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote: So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
Thanks for both the decision and you informing us about it.
Just one question.
Will Team Avatar (in current (former?) or new form) be allowed to continue to look for (and prototype) new possible gameplay once the current "Expansion Frenzy" is over?
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Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
386
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Without seeing the prototype, judging only by your post, I just can't see any connection between my exploration party derping around a space station looking for artifacts, and the grand political strategy of empires made up of thousands of players fighting each other for space dominance. It could just as well be a whole new game set in the EVE universe, only loosely if at all connected to the EVE game at all (not unlike Dust).
Because DUSTies stay on planets like the plebs they are. As capsuleers vying for dominance, we all seek any way possible to one up each other, including but not limited to exploring Sleeper derelicts looking for shinies to use. Think of it as exploration anomalies, but on a station, in a suit, and with a gun in your hands.
Quote:I don't see how the avatar gameplay could bring anything new to the player-player interaction EVE is based upon. In the form you describe it as, I don't expect it to become anything more than PI right now - just a gimmicky minigame to gather X resource. Only without the meta-game of fighting over planets. I don't see why I should prefer EVE-avatar-sim over activating a codebreaker module, and playing a proper full FPS/3PS game afterwards.
Are you trolling? Player-player interaction with humanized avatar's tend to humanize the players themselves as opposed to making them abstract hunks of metal. People like interacting with people, not hulls. Just because YOU don't doesn't mean others wouldn't like it. It's a more fun experience to invade and look around for tech than sit there in a ship while your codebreaker cycle. Not everyone enjoys dull experiences. Change can be good.
Quote:Many people want there to be more significant content for smaller groups of people. So allow players to board/infiltrate an enemy Infrastructure hub, and hack the upgrades installed within. Or for larger squads even disable station services. The IHub's owners in the same system will be alerted can also enter and defend it. Otherwise it's defended by automated platforms (possibly allow these to be upgraded as an IHub upgrade too). If the attacker succeeds, the hacked upgrade(s) will be disabled for a period of time, or until the attackers are driven out by the defenders. The longer the attacker can hold the hack, the longer the upgrades are disabled. This encourages both sides to reinforce the ongoing avatar battle with more spaceships bringing in troops, and to stop the enemy from doing the same. If the respawn mechanic of avatars somehow depends on who is holding the space grid over the IHub, the fight could quickly escalate to a battle both in space and in the corridors. Me gusta....seriously, with a stealth infiltration ship, this kind of gives small corps an upper hand versus the big guy. I like.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
44
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cold, dark places, also far from safe. I think I will like it. But please, don't make it in the way that someone can one-shoot you. It would kill all fun. About WIS |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
386
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Cold, dark places, also far from safe. I think I will like it. But please, don't make it in the way that someone can one-shoot you. It would kill all fun. Are you kidding? That'd make it MORE fun. Picture it, exploring a sleeper station, harvesting some stuff. Suddenly that jerk that podded you a few weeks back and spammed your mail is in the same station...problem is he isn't so "hard core" outside his ship and he sucks at FPS/3PS style gameplay. You however, do not....
:3 |
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