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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 72 post(s) |
Bodega Cat
Perkone Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:17:00 -
[121] - Quote
Matt Grav wrote:My first thoughts are:
* Should we be able to retract a bounty that we have placed ? Maybe at the loss of a % of the remaining bounty isk.
* Aren't players with a 30 day kill right for sale hanging over them just going undock in a very cheap or rookie ship to get a friend or alt to kill them ? I guess for this to work well you will need to find the right price point. Cheap enough for players to buy to allow kill rights but expensive enough for it not to be just a trivial cost to remove with an alt. At the moment it feels as if it is going to be too easy to avoid.
As a personal rule, the price would be the value of your initial loss or a comfortable percentage of it that gave you the kill rights in the first place.
If you lost a hulk, you might value those rights at hulk price (or 50%, whatever). Most people won't buy them ever, but its possible, at the right opportunity, someone would pay it just for a particularly fun fight depending on what they find the person in question in.
This way, if the pirate is more interested in clearing the kill right, he's essentially paying you for the food he took out of your belly. |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
275
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:17:00 -
[122] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:I'd like to echo the concern that as it stands, it'd be too easy for someone with outstanding killrights against themselves to scrub those killrights by killing themselves in a cheap ship with an alt. Killrights should only be removed if the value of the kill exceeds the price paid for the killright, IMO.
This would only be true if the killrights were vastly undervalued. If you want to make sure somone will pay but your not sure how to do it yourself you can place, idk, 50mil on someone. If some bored rich corp felt it was worth it they would pay to kill them. Or the person who got the killright could go out and activate it themselves.
It would only be easy to wash the killright if the initial victim made it that way.
Edit: in other words if the price of the ship that you are likely to lose is worth less than the killright is worth it would not be profitable to purchase and wash the killright Low-sec Best-sec |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
55
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:17:00 -
[123] - Quote
Dirael Papier wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:I disagree with this. Flat fees work great in this case, whereas making it proportional to the bounty size puts even more of the power in the hands of the issuer. OOH! OOH OOH OOOH!!! Something I'm gonna steal from Sword Art Online would be great for this! (At least I think it would) Finding out the bounty issuer could start with a flat fee. Say it's 5m ISK. The Bounty Issuer then gets a message saying that a request has been made to reveal their name. If they don't want their name revealed, they can pay an increased price of their choosing (minimum 5m ISK above the price offered by the other person.) The person with the bounty on them then gets a message asking them to further escalate (minimum 5m above the previous offer) and this continues until one side stops escalating. If the bounty issuer declines to escalate the price, or doesn't respond within like, 24 hours then their name is revealed. If the person trying to find out the name of the jerk that put a bounty on them declines the offer or doesn't respond within 24 hours then they won't be given another opportunity to find out the other person's name. Or maybe the 24 hour limit could start from when the bounty is placed, and all escalations have to be made within that time, including the initial 5m one. I dunno. Could be kind of a fun ISK sink though.
Bloodpetal would probably like you to stop thinking.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
507
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:18:00 -
[124] - Quote
I like the bounty side of things, but the killright changes just seem very bad. Very strong in some ways, very gameable in others. A list of concerns:
- There doesn't appear to be anything to prevent you from continually flagging someone with a suspect flag until they die.
- There's no protections against the criminal purchasing his own killrights with an alt. I know you guys said that you want to do something about this on an iteration, but it should really go in at the same time, even if you have to delay it.
- As a followup to the above, a criminal is heavily disadvantaged if they don't purchase any freely available killrights against them and use them up immediately. The only value in killrights will likely be selling them back to an alt or corpmate of the criminal in question.
- I don't know when the killright payment is deducted, but if it's immediately done when you purchase the killrights it's going to be very easy to scam with. Set up an alt with a high bounty, get fake killrights on your alt, sell them for a modest price and sit your alt in a baitship outside jita 4-4. Dock if you ever get a suspect flag.
Some suggestions:
- Purchasing killrights or activating them requires a modest CONCORD fee. Maybe 100k or 10% of the purchase, whichever is greater.
- Do the iteration on killright purchasing before releasing it.
- deduct isk for killright payments on successful kills, ie when the killright is removed.
- It might be worth reconsidering the implementation of killrights entirely; perhaps moving them more toward something like the bounty system is going to be. The idea that killrights should be generated or lost when, say, somebody loses a frigate or shuttle makes the system very easy to game. You should tie isk value of losses into it somehow, so that a killright where someone blew up my industrial full of meta2 capital mods is worth more than if I lose my favorite +3 clone in lowsec. |
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CCP Tallest
C C P C C P Alliance
302
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:18:00 -
[125] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Oh, and a second question: Will he be able to know who put the bounty on him? I very much doubt he remembers me. For him, it was just another Tuesday in low-sec.
Wait, third question: I lent a small amount of ISK to a player about 3 years ago. He never paid back; I think he stopped playing. If I dump a bounty on him of, say, 10 times the amont I lent him, and he resumes playing again, and he contacts me and begs for mercy, is there any way I can retract my bounty on him? Like if he agrees to pay the ISK back to me?
second question: We are still discussing this internally. At the moment, it's a no, but we are definitely considering having this information available.
third question: You will not be able to retract bounties.
Bubanni wrote:1: "This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally." As in when someone buys the kill right... this is way too effective, it should only work for the person buying the kill right
2: when anyone can buy the kill right, what stops the guy with the kill right on from using an alt to kill himself while he is in a rookieship?
1: We are using the suspect flag for 2 reasons: One is to allow your fleet to help you with your revenge. Two is that we are trying to move away from single player to single player aggression flags, as you can see with the new crimewatch mechanics.
2: The owner of the kill right sets the price. If your "friend" (alt) is willing to pay that price, then your old victim just got some money back to compensate him for being the target of your undoubtedly heinous criminal act. |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
610
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:19:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:MeBiatch wrote:CCP Bro wrote:I want one of those brofists! Also, this is pretty awesome stuff! every dev needs to post in the like and get likes thread... i should never have more likes then any ccp dev... well maybe goliath but thats a different story. some of us just like to earn likes with good posting!
ok bro then post more...
dont make me have to reactivate alts so i can like you more...
i just moved out and am poor
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
466
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:19:00 -
[127] - Quote
I have a great idea!!!
Kill rights should be changed completely to last a month, be tradeable/sellable, only work for 1 person (not everyone nearby), and most importantly which is what makes my idea so awesome! It should stay active even after you kill the target!
This would make kill rights into personal WarDecs that last for a month [:8)] Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
926
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:19:00 -
[128] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:Salpad wrote: Actually, I just did the "math". If you take the square root (X^0.5) and multiply by 20, then the "discover fee" on a 50 billion bounty is a bit over 4 million. So probably an exponent other than 0.5, and certainly a multiplier larger than 20, if anything like my suggestion gets implemented.
Flat fee. Period, the end. Thinking too hard about something that is simple. I don't find thinking hard.
That's cute. Come up with that yourself?
Where I am. |
Dirael Papier
Nevermined Inc Storm of Souls
22
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:19:00 -
[129] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:that could be cool but I worry about the server load a million back and forth bounty information bids will create. Dunno. I have no idea how often bounties are placed or how frequently these escalations would generally happen or what the server impact of a single ISK transfer would be.
But I think if it can only happen within a certain time period of the bounties initial placement (24 hours was my initial suggestion, but it could be shorter I suppose) then it might work? Dunno, some stats Diagoras or someone would need to look into. |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
117
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:19:00 -
[130] - Quote
Umm, ok, so you went and revamped a bounty system rather than:
Make bounty players drop a unique "something"
Allow contracts to be set up and assignable to players / alliances so that people can build up reputations as bounty hunters and be reputable hires or alliances can offer bounties to their members.
and avoid 99% of the new coding/bugs/exploits you just introduced.
And allow players to still get full value bounties which is the whole ******* point.
........
That, rather than OMNI bounty hunter eve where reputation and skill are required. |
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
40
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:20:00 -
[131] - Quote
I still don't understand why, instead of preventing the use of two ASB, you're nerfing it's stats.
*Yelling "Manticooore !" on teamspeak* |
Myxx
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
620
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:20:00 -
[132] - Quote
So, EVE-Kill is about to explode with a flurry of people podding themselves with their alts to claim unclaimed bounties.
Secondly, this will make things very interesting. Nicely done. |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
117
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:20:00 -
[133] - Quote
Altrue wrote:I still don't understand why, instead of preventing the use of two ASB, you're nerfing it's stats.
common sense |
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
12
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:21:00 -
[134] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Sanna Irvam wrote:I worry about high sec haulers. With the new system, if I understand, i can put a 100k isk bounty on a freighter pilot, buying killrights and having a fleet ganking the freighter without Concord coming... Problem ? addding bounty doesn't create a killright Correct, but Sanna actually did say "buying killrights". I overlooked that part of her post as well. That still requires Kill Rights being available first. The way he says it implies place any bounty, suddenly able to get kill rights. Why would you place bounty yourself on someone you are going to blow up when kill rights are already available? |
Logan LaMort
Black Rebel Rifter Club
1271
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:22:00 -
[135] - Quote
Wow, so this is awesome! |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
275
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
the tears of gankers and neutral RR alts will flood Jita on Dec. 4th. I am just happy that pirates got a little boost with all of these highsec changes Low-sec Best-sec |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
926
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:23:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote: 2: The owner of the kill right sets the price. If your "friend" (alt) is willing to pay that price, then your old victim just got some money back to compensate him for being the target of your undoubtedly heinous criminal act.
I agree with this.
However, killrights should stack for a person, is my point. :)
Also, with multiple kill rights, how do you determine which kill right gets consumed first? Cheapest? Oldest?
I currently have 20 people with kill rights on me. Where I am. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3423
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:23:00 -
[138] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:MeBiatch wrote:CCP Bro wrote:I want one of those brofists! Also, this is pretty awesome stuff! every dev needs to post in the like and get likes thread... i should never have more likes then any ccp dev... well maybe goliath but thats a different story. some of us just like to earn likes with good posting! ok bro then post more... dont make me have to reactivate alts so i can like you more... i just moved out and am poor
explosive brofist to you! Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
276
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:25:00 -
[139] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Tallest wrote: 2: The owner of the kill right sets the price. If your "friend" (alt) is willing to pay that price, then your old victim just got some money back to compensate him for being the target of your undoubtedly heinous criminal act.
I agree with this. However, killrights should stack for a person, is my point. :) Also, with multiple kill rights, how do you determine which kill right gets consumed first? Cheapest? Oldest? I currently have 20 people with kill rights on me.
oooh thats a good question. I currently have nearly 150 killrights on me, will these rights flow over through the expansion or will they be reset?
(i know these particular ones will lapse, but the ones leading up to the release?) Low-sec Best-sec |
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
13
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
I am loving the changes being implemented here. Piracy will have it's just deserts, but not ridiculously.
A few things I'm not quite clear on:
1) At what stage will a kill right be generated in low sec? Attacking the ship? Killing the ship? Attacking the pod or killing that?
2) Can someone with kill rights who has chosen to not rent it out activate the kill right themselves making the target suspect to everyone, or does it have to be made publicly available to make the flag public?
3) Will the rental fee on kill rights be paid to concord or the owner of the kill right?
4) Are there plans to give the kill right OWNERSHIP to someone else, rather than just rented access?
5) Will the noctis (or, heaven forbid, it's T2 counterpart) ever be able to use salvaging drones, what with being the go to salvage boat.
Thanks for the informative dev blog and incredible development. REALLY looking forward to Retribution. This will be fun. |
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Strata Maslav
Born-2-Kill
34
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:26:00 -
[141] - Quote
Interesting gameplay dynamic brought about the hiring of kill rites. I kill my alt in a T1 frigate. I can then use him to set a large amount on my main which then other pilot can pay and try to engage me. If i survive I make money if I die well then I die.
Its basically allows people to put bets on themselves allowing other players to try to come after them with the chance of killing them.
If someone engages you with kill rites you are allowed to shoot back right?
What about if they attack you and you have your corp or fleet nearby, are they allowed to defend you? |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
928
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:27:00 -
[142] - Quote
Dirael Papier wrote: Finding out the bounty issuer could start with a flat fee. Say it's 5m ISK.
The Bounty Issuer then gets a message saying that a request has been made to reveal their name. If they don't want their name revealed, they can pay an increased price of their choosing (minimum 5m ISK above the price offered by the other person.)
Unlike trying to crunch numbers for something simple, this is actually an amusing idea and does not fall under the category of "thinking" too hard. In fact, it specifically falls under the not thinking too hard category because he stole it from someone else's idea. Thus most of the thinking has been done.
I like the concept, I don't think it's realistically going to be implemented, sadly.
Where I am. |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
38
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:27:00 -
[143] - Quote
Dev Blog wrote: You can track bounties youGÇÖve placed on other players, seeing how much has been paid out. YouGÇÖre also notified if a player youGÇÖve placed a bounty on is killed.
Let's pretend I think Tippia is a poop head (just for example, and to say someone recognizable), and I put a bounty on her for 10m isk. Then, let's pretend that there's one other person in all of eve who feels the same and places another 10m isk bounty.
After how long will I stop getting notified (eve mail? notification) of people delivering righteous fury upon her ships? Does it matter if I placed my bounty first, and then after that 10m is used up or...?
Along these lines, let's pretend I think anyone associated with Tippia should feel the wrath of my pocketbook too and I decide to put a 500m bounty on her corp. Do I get notified of each kill? Do I see the kill report or just a note saying that ___ person from ___ corp was killed at ____ time and your contribution to the bounty pool against them has been reduced to ____?
(I'm just playing Tippia, don't hate on me)
And some more questions not related to the other two - Will I be able to collect a bounty that I've placed on a person/corp? Can a corp/alliance place a bounty on another person/corp/alliance? (I can see this being used by say RvB... the whole red alliance could put a bounty on the whole blue alliance. then people in Red could collect, and it would get people not involved in either group to start shooting blues too - just for fun and isk?) I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
340
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:27:00 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I am confused. I have read the dev blog twice. I see the part in the blog where the -1 sec status requirement has been removed, so that makes me think anyone in the game, in any sec area, can have a bounty on them, and be a target if someone if some bounty hunter is willing to accept high sec consequences of Concord.
So what is to stop someone like goons from placing a 10 billion isk bounty on someone they dislike, which pays out with 50 billion ISK in ship and implant losses, then restarting the bounty again, until the person they have set the bounty on has had their assets completely wiped out?
I don't see how that's different than just ganking him over and over without the bounty?
Ummm....big difference. Now goons can place an X on someone's back, and ANY ganker, ANYWHRE, ANYTIME, can nail someone. This essentially makes every ganker in space a member of the Ministry of Love.
Now, I am waiting for people to say , "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", but imagine this scenario:
Goons hate someone. They place a 10 billion bounty on them. That person is flying a freighter, somewhere in high sec. The ship has a load of say, 700M, which is well below the usual safe threshold of 1 billion to make it profitable to gank a freighter. At current prices that ship is worth about 1.5 billion. That makes the payout of the bounty about 300M, plus the potential payoff of the payload of the freighter makes the gank profitable.
Or another scenario. Same victim wants to fly a Marauder in missions. Hull cost is about 800M. Now, you tack on T2 rigs, some faction stuff, and you can easily hit 2 billion in value. The bounty payout is 400M, and you can gank a mission boat in 0.5 space with 2-3 Tornados. Suddenly, the mission runner who usually is ignored by gankers, will ALWAYS be attacked.
With the existing system, the average ganker would say, look at a PvE BS and say, nah, since I am getting no payout, and unsure the nice modules will drop, so not worth it. Now, not only is that person flagged as they stroll through the gate, ALL gankers will pounce, since the bounty guarantees that at worst they will recover their losses, and the modules are gravy.
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Drew Solaert
Wildcard Inc.
217
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:28:00 -
[145] - Quote
This has actually gone far far FAR beyond my expectations. CCP bravo. Thats all I can say. I lied :o
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
610
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:28:00 -
[146] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Salpad wrote:CCP Paradox wrote: We haven't nailed down exact percentages yet, but when we do we will let you guys know for feedback and discussion.
I think 20% is fine. When I thought about it half a week ago or so, that was my own conclusion: 20% of Total Induced Grief Value. Or 15% or 25%, but I opted for 20%, which I think is good. Why not higher? It takes a LOT of work to hunt down a person and make sure they suffer. Not to mention, you are basically forcing kill rights to be on paid rental (otherwise alt will activate and kill themselves) - and a good PVPer will make a group of mercs SUFFER for that chance at a pretty minimal bounty. Come at me, and you will die repeatedly to collect the bounty on my head. EVE-Kill lists your chance of survival at about 13%. i.e. I have a 7 to 1 kill ratio, and those are against combat targets. So, some dude comes up to me and kills my 80m hurricane and gets... what? 15m ISK? Oh, did I mention I have an army of killers at my side? 20% is too low to promote ACTUAL "bounty" hunting. Combine that with 1-5m ISK rental costs, and most of your ISK is going to the rental fee.
i think the reason is due to FW LP payouts
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
171
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:29:00 -
[147] - Quote
Looks pretty good. When this can be specified for specific players/corps/alliances it adds an interesting element.
Do I want to reimburse my alliance's ships that they lose during alliance ops?
Or instead do I want to take that 10 billion a month (or whatever) and throw it on as a bounty on our enemy, so every time a member kills someone they get a payout?
Or both?
It would be like ratting, only more fun. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9838
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:30:00 -
[148] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:(I'm just playing Tippia, don't hate on me) Don't worry, it's bound to happen. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
362
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:30:00 -
[149] - Quote
Kenneth Skybound wrote:1) At what stage will a kill right be generated in low sec? Attacking the ship? Killing the ship? Attacking the pod or killing that? o/ I know this one. The killright is generated upon a criminal flag, meaning if you attack a ship/pod in highsec or attack a pod only in lowsec. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
704
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Posted - 2012.10.11 16:31:00 -
[150] - Quote
It'd be good with the specific bounties, if you could specify the payout percentage.
So I make a bounty on an enemy alliance available to my own alliance. With a 50% payout. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
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