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Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.10.11 17:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello IGS, this is my first post, woo yeah.
So, something that someone asked me, was about what being Minmatar means these days.
They were giving me this long spiel about this thing they called "The Elder Conspiracy", which sounded like a lot of silliness, but the gist of it was that the Elders, from their hidden bases way out in Thukker land, were the future of our people. And that all we had to do, was protect the Elders till they finish whatever it is they're doing in their secret bases. Said nothing else matters. Doesn't matter if many of our people are still enslaved, or if there's slums and deprivation, none of that matters, unless it stops the Elders plans.
Seemed rather bleak to me, to say that there's nothing to do, except prevent the Amarr Crusaders from doing anything. Which I hear is the case, with the Amarr having lost most of the bleak lands and all that.
Then there was this other person, who said it was all about revenge. Revenge against the Amarr for the long years of oppression and enslavement of a large proportion of our people. Again, they said that nothing else matters, not the slums and deprivation, or even the Elders secret plan to do whatever. Just said that it is every Minmatar's duty to throw themselves against the Amarr and take some of them down.
Seemed a bit self destructive, and plays right into those Amarr propaganda peoples arguments that Minmatar are all savages and need to be "saved" from ourselves.
So, what does being Minmatar mean? |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
119
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Being Minmatar? If you already using such terms, probably the usual propaganda that all matari people can only be content if they're a part of the Republic.
Au contraire, a lot of matari people are much more content not being part of the Republic.
So, you might want to differentiate that political part from your initial question... unless you want this to descend into another topic laced by politics. .stillwater |
Toluijin Chagangan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
You're asking the right question there. But you're asking the wrong people.
You are Matari. Only you can say what that means to you.
What it is to be of Matar varies for each of her children, We each see our world with different eyes. Yet still, we are one. Seven Tribes, One Matari People. |
Toluijin Chagangan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Leopold Caine wrote:Being Minmatar? If you already using such terms, probably the usual propaganda that all matari people can only be content if they're a part of the Republic.
Au contraire, a lot of matari people are much more content not being part of the Republic.
So, you might want to differentiate that political part from your initial question... unless you want this to descend into another topic laced by politics.
The only person who brought the republic into the conversation Mr Caine, was you. as you have said, it is possible to be Matari without being part of the republic.
Oh, and in case you need this explained to you, You are not Matari. Therefore this thread, and the question within it was not aimed at you. Kindly stay out of Matari business. As you and yours should have done oh so long ago. |
N'maro Makari
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
85
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
I like to make the distinction between being ethnically Minmatar, just being born qualifies you here, and being culturally Minmatar, which involved being a member of a tribe and clan and earning your position within them.
So, in short, born Minmatar, not a big deal. To be culturally Minmatar means earning your way into a clan and tribe, which a majority of Minmatar children not in the Amarr empire do as a normal part of growing up. Although, adults earning their way into a Tribe is hardly rare.
Though, if I ask myself which category I fit into it's difficult, its been a while since I've been home. N'maro Makari Executive Officer The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
119
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Toluijin Chagangan wrote: The only person who brought the republic into the conversation Mr Caine, was you. as you have said, it is possible to be Matari without being part of the republic.
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor wrote:Then there was this other person, who said it was all about revenge. Revenge against the Amarr for the long years of oppression and enslavement of a large proportion of our people.
That does sound rather Shakor-esque, doesn't it?
Quote:Oh, and in case you need this explained to you, You are not Matari. Therefore this thread, and the question within it was not aimed at you. Kindly stay out of Matari business. As you and yours should have done oh so long ago.
I have friends who are matari, slaves who are matari and a degree in matarology from the Imperial Academy, not to mention being rather fluent in Thukker. So, I'm really too deep in Matari business to find your requests anything more than amusing. Maybe when you stop considering every amarrian out there as a stereotypical enemy of matari people, we can have a reasonable, non-racist discussion. .stillwater |
Toluijin Chagangan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
You misunderstand me Mr Caine. I don't stereotype every amarrian.
But those who are also angel cartel loyalists. Yeah.. it's pretty safe to stereotype those ones.
and yeah, so... one person she talked to has a revenge thing going on. I do love how you people claim it's "Shakor-esque" when that particular driving force has been around for going on seven hundred years now.
Still. The initial question was aimed at the Matari. you are not Matari. I'm sure you can understand that if a question asking what it is to be khanid was posed, it would be aimed at the Khanid, and having random Gallente pipe in with an unabashed attempt at muddying the waters and derailing the initial purpose of the thread would be frowned upon. The same is true here.
This will be the last time i respond to you within this thread. |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
119
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Posted - 2012.10.11 21:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:But those who are also angel cartel loyalists. Yeah.. it's pretty safe to stereotype those ones.
Rather non sequiteur, don't you think?
Quote:Still. The initial question was aimed at the Matari. you are not Matari. I'm sure you can understand that if a question asking what it is to be khanid was posed, it would be aimed at the Khanid, and having random Gallente pipe in with an unabashed attempt at muddying the waters and derailing the initial purpose of the thread would be frowned upon.
I think this was posted at a public IGS forum, and anyone, even someone with less knowledge about the matari culture should be able to respond. If the OP didn't have that in mind, I'm sure there are other more racist aligned forums where she could've asked the same question.
Sometimes understanding what we are is not just a matter of what our bloodkin think of it, mr. Chagangan. Sometimes what the wider audience thinks is more important. And it seems she's aware of that.
.stillwater |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
960
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Posted - 2012.10.11 22:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Caine. Do your public image a favour and shut up.
To answer the question, it means a couple different things.
There is being ethnically minmatar, which entails very little besides the fact that at some point your family traced its roots back to Matar, as opposed to one of the other homeworlds.
Then there is being culturally minmatar, which means a different thing for each clan, and each tribe. What it means to be part of my clan is I suspect a good deal different than what it means to be part of a clan born in the Core Worlds of the republic, with a whole different set of obligations, responsibilities, cultural values, and behavioral standards.
Honestly, much of the whole 'we are all brothers and sisters' thing I see seems more like propaganda of the Republic clans then anything else. Excuses to justify their actions and speak for the whole of the ethnic group. No two clans are alike, and the further apart you move geographically, the less and less similar they become. I consider myself ethnically to be Minmatar, because objectively, that is what I am. Culturally, I am of clan Sgathiach. I don't consider myself a member of the Sebiestor Tribe, because the tribe is over 50 billion strong. That is like claiming a cultural connection to people who happen to have black hair.
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith or the devils gonna claim your soul
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
523
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Posted - 2012.10.11 22:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leopold Caine wrote: Rather non sequiteur, don't you think?
Leopold Caine > /emote chuckles. "So much for Rabbit's clairvoyance... Vukenda sends his regards." |
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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
179
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Posted - 2012.10.11 22:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Caine. Do your public image a favour and shut up.
If he knew how, we'd never hear from him.
Alas, the world is not a perfect place.
An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
119
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Posted - 2012.10.11 22:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Caine. Do your public image a favour and shut up.
Says the slave vivisectionist.
.stillwater |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
960
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Posted - 2012.10.11 22:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Leopold Caine wrote:Saede Riordan wrote:Caine. Do your public image a favour and shut up. Says the slave vivisectionist.
Notice I don't publically flaunt that while at the same time trying to deny it.
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith or the devils gonna claim your soul
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Amaki Mai
Meiyi Family Holdings
62
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Posted - 2012.10.11 23:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:Oh, and in case you need this explained to you, You are not Matari. Therefore this thread, and the question within it was not aimed at you. Kindly stay out of Matari business. As you and yours should have done oh so long ago.
No offence, but in no part of her original post did she specify that the question was directed solely at Minmatar. In fact, given that she's asking what being Minmatar means, she probably doesn't have a clearly delineated idea of what it takes to be Matari.
Saede Riordan pointed out that there are at least two categories - Culturally Matari and Racially Matari. We can further point out that there are the Ammatar and any who are not fully Matari by blood, of which there are a great many.
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Lyskal Oskold
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
2031
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Posted - 2012.10.11 23:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
After we have crushed the problem that is slavery we shall crush the problem that is poverty. So is the power of the hatred dwelling within all Matari.
To be Matari is to stand strong for all our brothers, sisters, orphans and dead. "Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
647
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Posted - 2012.10.12 03:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
I dunno...to me, being Matarri first and foremost means being your own person.
Although...others...among us might have you believe it's being your own person, but only of a type they approve of.
That's why I hauled my own-self out to Derelik and beyond a long time ago...Their thing is definitely not my thing, but much less Shakorite-approved noise-pollution out here. Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
269
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Posted - 2012.10.12 05:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Being Minmatar is so many different things to so many different people that I think trying to come up with a simple definitive answer is as difficult as trying to count the grains of sand on a beach. Ask 100 people this question and I'd wager that you'd get at least 100 different comments.
As I'm still attempting to find my place in our world I'll leave the task of answering your question to others Pilot Sebiestor.
What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
180
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 10:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote: Ask 100 people this question and I'd wager that you'd get at least 100 different comments.
150, minimum.
An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
338
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Minmatar Elders are not a conspiracy they are the guardians of Minmatar culture.
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Toluijin Chagangan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.10.12 13:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Amaki Mai wrote:Toluijin Chagangan wrote:Oh, and in case you need this explained to you, You are not Matari. Therefore this thread, and the question within it was not aimed at you. Kindly stay out of Matari business. As you and yours should have done oh so long ago. No offence, but in no part of her original post did she specify that the question was directed solely at Minmatar. In fact, given that she's asking what being Minmatar means, she probably doesn't have a clearly delineated idea of what it takes to be Matari. Saede Riordan pointed out that there are at least two categories - Culturally Matari and Racially Matari. We can further point out that there are the Ammatar and any who are not fully Matari by blood, of which there are a great many.
While the words weren't specific, the very question is obviously aimed at the Matari people. Only the Matari truly know what it means to be Matari, just as only the Khanid truly know what it means to be Khanid.
The point i made to Leopold Caine stands for you as well.
You will notice, that while she is apparently an Angel cartel loyalist, I did not ask Saede Riordan to leave the responses to those it was aimed at. While I may not agree with her choice of loyalties, she is still Matari. Therefore on this particular topic, her words have meaning.
The words of Amarrian and Khanid slaveholders simply do not. If either of you truly understood what being Matari meant, you would not have spoken out in this thread at all. |
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Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
61
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Posted - 2012.10.12 14:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think the whole point is that it's up to you. As long as you can fend for yourself and make your own way, you're being Matari.
I've seen them in the Republic, working at Boundless Creations factories or as soldiers or cooks. I've seen them in Curse, disillusioned with however things were in their previous home. Or in remote nullsec deadspace colonies, just making a living mining the asteroids. Clans are virtually everywhere, and they all call themselves "Minmatar".
They make fine crewmen and comrades on the norm. I don't pretend to understand it all, but with so many from such diverse backgrounds it almost seems like it really is up to you and your own ways. |
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.10.12 16:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
I do not see how the enslavers and kin-slayers of the angel cartel are in any way Minmatar, regardless of their ancestry. |
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
61
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Posted - 2012.10.12 17:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sounds like you've already got your answers, then. |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
1038
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 23:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor wrote:I do not see how the enslavers and kin-slayers of the angel cartel are in any way Minmatar, regardless of their ancestry.
Well then you already have your own very specific version of being Minmatar that doesn't include me in it. If your mind was already made up, then why ask the question at all? So you could antagonistically respond in an attempt to prove your moral superiority?
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith or the devils gonna claim your soul
|
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
647
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 03:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:
Well then you already have your own very specific version of being Minmatar that doesn't include me in it. If your mind was already made up, then why ask the question at all? So you could antagonistically respond in an attempt to prove your moral superiority?
Oh, for ****'s sake...
Translation: "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME, ME, ME, ME, MEEEE!!!!111ONEONE!"
Right, talking about noise-pollution, eh?
Hint:
She wasn't asking just you, nor yet steering the conversation into a confrontation with you, as you desire, because it isn't all/only about you.
(Giving pod-licenses to immature children now? This will end well...FFS)
Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Uraniae Fehrnah
VokoV Class Act Cartel
155
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Posted - 2012.10.13 04:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
As has already been mentioned, the specific meaning is well...specific to you. The path you walk in the world, the actions you take, the words you speak, and the spiritual beliefs you hold all define each step of your path and the scenery you see around you as you walk it.
Now if I had to say what being matari meant to me, obviously putting aside the fact that I'm not matari, I think it would be something like this. Being matari means honoring the traditions and memories of your ancestors. It means working not only to better yourself but to better those you call brothers and sisters. It means maintaining the history and culture around you, and forging a future that incorporates the past rather than replacing it. |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
1057
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 15:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote: She wasn't asking just you, nor yet steering the conversation into a confrontation with you, as you desire, because it isn't all/only about you.
I said my piece, she is the one that responded specifically to attack what I said, in contrast with her saying nothing to anyone else regarding their responses to her question. This is, if not trying to force a confrontation, then an attempt to marginalize the opinion of people she doesn't disagree with. Hence the statement that she clearly already has a very specific Republic-centric opinion of what it means to be Minmatar. If she only wanted to response of the Republicans, she could have posed the question to them specifically, instead of posing it to the entire ethnic group and then writing out anyone who disagrees with her by calling them not minmatar. Its clearly an attempt to show off her own supposed moral superiority.
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith or the devils gonna claim your soul
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Jara Blackwind
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.10.13 17:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor wrote:So, what does being Minmatar mean?
Being Minmatar is to have blood of the Seven Tribes in your veins, to follow the ways of your kin in your soul and to keep freedom in your heart regardless of what may happen.
That's my personal answer to your question. |
Horak Thor
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
108
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Posted - 2012.10.13 20:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
At the Moment?
Its about Tasting freedom and peace.
We must free our brothers so they can taste it at last and the war can be over. It's about the prosperity of our people. It's about the strength of our spirit and the Iron core of our resolve to see what needs to be done done.
It's about building a future because the present is not good enough. TRIAD is recruiting "TRIAD Agency" in game channel |
Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.10.14 08:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
The angel cartel attack on the genesis vaults was an attack on the culture of all Minmatar people. It is an assault on our cultural heritage.
Therefore, cartel members, are no longer Minmatar, whatever their ancestry.
They made their bed, and can lie in it. |
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