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Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 01:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP should inject PLEX at a fixed price to knock the price down [and decrease the amount of ISK inflow per] until the market is back to 300-400M per... for 19.50 RL... that would help CCP's bottom line, keep the speculators in check, and deflate the price of other items as speculation goes down and real production builds back up the supply of other items...
... and consider a fixed max price of PLEX at a point in which it wouldn't allow prices above that price in sell orders and then let the market drive the price under that point... with that in place the PLEX to ISK would even out, and be like a "gold / silver " standard to RL money in the economy and anchor some valuation to PLEX in ISK, and in RL funds. Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2698
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 01:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
You mad?
He mad "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1268
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 01:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Someones dead end job cant pay for all his accounts. |
Nex apparatu5
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
352
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 01:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
SO CCP should spend tens of thousands of dollars because you feel that plex are overpriced?
Makes sense to me. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1323
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 01:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP cannot inject PLEX because then they lose money.
I think the OP does not understand how PLEX works. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
25
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Posted - 2012.10.12 01:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
This thread again? |
Lyskal Oskold
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
2033
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 01:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Supply and demand.
Looks like some people need to fork out $ for ISK. "Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb |
Raiz Nhell
Kangaroo Ate my baby Li3 Federation
207
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Posted - 2012.10.12 01:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote: [and decrease the amount of ISK inflow per]
Last time I checked there was no ISK inflow from PLEX.. only a slight outflow...
No ISK is generated when you sell a PLEX, it is merely moved from one place to another...
OP needs to spend a nice long weekend with a economics text book...
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
273
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP should only inject plex when there is a lack of demand. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
960
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:a "gold / silver " standard to RL money in the economy Interesting fact... gold and silver prices rise and fall based on their scarcity (supply) and people's want of them (demand). Their value isn't set anywhere except in people's minds... and even that is subject to up and down swings. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
My thought was not about subs or cost... no issue there...
But my understanding is:
36.00 (ish - havn't bought on in a while, used to be about 36 USD) for a ETC... which then got you 2x PLEX for like 19.50 (seems the price I hear round...
That used to get you 350M when you sold it. Now it gets you about double 600+M for the same 19.50... a substancial increase in ISKies.
So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe and collecting 1/2 the RL money for it... and it's injecting "cheap" money into the economy... which allows for more "speculation" and less "production" of real economic grown... as Mitten's put it... "bubble"
The idea as I would think to fix this is deflate the ISK per RL dollars, which would slow down the dumping of PLEX for cheap money and bring it back into real money value to ISK injected for it.
And as far as economics goes... don't hold much stock in the current economic "theories" - not going to get into that one, but if you subscribe to them, your an idiot and a gambler, not an economist... anymore than a loan-shark is an investment banker... or a ponzi-schemer is a job-creater...lol. Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
If it's all about the health of the game, I'd suggest they just remove Plex.
That won't happen either but see how I turned that around on you? Me, I prefer the method now used. Prime directive, stick to mechanics. I don't think we should be allowed to move Plex in game but that's another debate. |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Aurelius Valentius wrote:a "gold / silver " standard to RL money in the economy Interesting fact... gold and silver prices rise and fall based on their scarcity (supply) and people's want of them (demand). Their value isn't set anywhere except in people's minds... and even that is subject to up and down swings.
Gold and Silver shake the fraud out of the system, because you can't simply stamp it out on paper and make more of it, someone has to find it and get it physically out of the ground and bring it to market (real production) and then you can't sell more of it than there is (unless your in the "City" or "Wallstreet" in which case you can naked short it all you want I guess until the mob shows up with the certificates and trades them for torches and pitchforks...).
Putting PLEX to 400M max sell as a price control would keep the market steady and stop the "free" flow of easy ISK into the system... then the other ISK issues could be looked at... but the big thing would be to cut the inflow of ISK from RL by half and slow the economy down enough to deflate the current run-aways... Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
560
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
As I player I just injected PLEX to help your cause. In return I got isk, which furthers my own cause. While you might not have noticed this personal effort of mine, I would like you to know I that I happy to watch the price of PLEX drop along with you so that I can buy PLEX again while enjoying the profit I made. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
260
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe
But again, ETC/PLEX doesn't dump or add any ISK to the game at all.
Selling a PLEX in game only moves ISK from one player to another.
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Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sisohiv wrote:If it's all about the health of the game, I'd suggest they just remove Plex.
That won't happen either but see how I turned that around on you? Me, I prefer the method now used. Prime directive, stick to mechanics. I don't think we should be allowed to move Plex in game but that's another debate.
PLEX as a means to turn time "working" in EVE into "time" to play is fine, in fact it's a positive for the game just like real world work, production and time = wages...
The problem is when it is devalued due to ISK inflation... right now the amount of time spend working = much more to get the same time to play... so working wages for PLEX (as pay) is being hit hard... the working man is taking it on the chin as the ISK rich (and RL money users) buy up "golden ammo" in a sense because they can keep funding w/o work/time in game stake in the economy, but the PLEX earner can't keep up...
So PLEX workers, lose - meaning less real economy PLEX brokers, win - meaning more speculation and more price manipulation and inflation...
Funny how this game is a mirror of the RL issues...
Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
Darth Nupis
The Fraternal Association of Killer Squibs
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
This idea lacks merit. |
Nex apparatu5
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
353
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe and collecting 1/2 the RL money for it... and it's injecting "cheap" money into the economy... which allows for more "speculation" and less "production" of real economic grown... as Mitten's put it... "bubble"
PLEX inject no isk into the game.
Aurelius Valentius wrote: The idea as I would think to fix this is deflate the ISK per RL dollars, which would slow down the dumping of PLEX for cheap money and bring it back into real money value to ISK injected for it.
Spoiler: If people were dumping PLEX, the price would be rising.
Aurelius Valentius wrote: And as far as economics goes... don't hold much stock in the current economic "theories" - not going to get into that one, but if you subscribe to them, your an idiot and a gambler, not an economist... anymore than a loan-shark is an investment banker... or a ponzi-schemer is a job-creater...lol.
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1509
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:My thought was not about subs or cost... no issue there...
But my understanding is:
36.00 (ish - havn't bought on in a while, used to be about 36 USD) for a ETC... which then got you 2x PLEX for like 19.50 (seems the price I hear round...
That used to get you 350M when you sold it. Now it gets you about double 600+M for the same 19.50... a substancial increase in ISKies.
So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe and collecting 1/2 the RL money for it... and it's injecting "cheap" money into the economy... which allows for more "speculation" and less "production" of real economic grown... as Mitten's put it... "bubble"
The idea as I would think to fix this is deflate the ISK per RL dollars, which would slow down the dumping of PLEX for cheap money and bring it back into real money value to ISK injected for it.
And as far as economics goes... don't hold much stock in the current economic "theories" - not going to get into that one, but if you subscribe to them, your an idiot and a gambler, not an economist... anymore than a loan-shark is an investment banker... or a ponzi-schemer is a job-creater...lol. So you're saying if people believe in math they're wrong?
I mean is that what you're going with? Value = Demand / Supply. Pretty simple. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1509
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Sisohiv wrote:If it's all about the health of the game, I'd suggest they just remove Plex.
That won't happen either but see how I turned that around on you? Me, I prefer the method now used. Prime directive, stick to mechanics. I don't think we should be allowed to move Plex in game but that's another debate. PLEX as a means to turn time "working" in EVE into "time" to play is fine, in fact it's a positive for the game just like real world work, production and time = wages... The problem is when it is devalued due to ISK inflation... right now the amount of time spend working = much more to get the same time to play... so working wages for PLEX (as pay) is being hit hard... the working man is taking it on the chin as the ISK rich (and RL money users) buy up "golden ammo" in a sense because they can keep funding w/o work/time in game stake in the economy, but the PLEX earner can't keep up... So PLEX workers, lose - meaning less real economy PLEX brokers, win - meaning more speculation and more price manipulation and inflation... Funny how this game is a mirror of the RL issues... So if CCP buffs risk out of high-sec and the value of all the resources there tank, you're going to be really, really mad aren't you?
Because then your minerals won't be worth 1/10 of a PLEX a month, I'm guessing.
This thread is the natural result of the devaluation of professions due to lack of risk.
Thanks OP for your kind contribution. I hope I have directed your angst in appropriate directions.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Aurelius Valentius wrote:
So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe
But again, ETC/PLEX doesn't dump or add any ISK to the game at all. Selling a PLEX in game only moves ISK from one player to another.
Not quite... becaue while ISK is moved around, and not created, it's like a credit card... you can grand yourself "potential ISK" to use as a means to collateralize your gambling...
Lets say I whip out the CC and drop 10,000.00 RL on ETC... and then go into game... PLEX in hand... then I park myself in Jita and Amarr and a few other hubs and start to use my new PLEX hoard to fund a "pump and dump" PLEX campaign against the people working for PLEX with time spend mining, producing and so on... I buy up and hoard, and only resell on the highest end... any one lower I keep off the market with "buying cheap" and "selling dear" until I have taken most fo the competition off the make and left only my much inflated prices monopolies on the market...
now I am not sayin one person could do this, (they could) but def large groups of people could easily do this to the market... and that seems to be the case here, it's an economic war against the working-class of EVE in a sense...
People that put in time to work to play v. people that simply pump in RL funds to fund "golden ammo" in a sense and play with no stake in the economy other an as consumers, while the producers of the goods are starved out of the game in a sense.
***
No angst here btw... I am fine with it, one way or another - EVE is EVE, I just think it's odd that PLEX is going up so much when for so long it was rather like a "gold standard"... not any more now... Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1509
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Aurelius Valentius wrote:
So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe
But again, ETC/PLEX doesn't dump or add any ISK to the game at all. Selling a PLEX in game only moves ISK from one player to another. Not quite... becaue while ISK is moved around, and not created, it's like a credit card... you can grand yourself "potential ISK" to use as a means to collateralize your gambling... Lets say I whip out the CC and drop 10,000.00 RL on ETC... and then go into game... PLEX in hand... then I park myself in Jita and Amarr and a few other hubs and start to use my new PLEX hoard to fund a "pump and dump" PLEX campaign against the people working for PLEX with time spend mining, producing and so on... I buy up and hoard, and only resell on the highest end... any one lower I keep off the market with "buying cheap" and "selling dear" until I have taken most fo the competition off the make and left only my much inflated prices monopolies on the market... now I am not sayin one person could do this, (they could) but def large groups of people could easily do this to the market... and that seems to be the case here, it's an economic war against the working-class of EVE in a sense... People that put in time to work to play v. people that simply pump in RL funds to fund "golden ammo" in a sense and play with no stake in the economy other an as consumers, while the producers of the goods are starved out of the game in a sense. There is a much easier answer than injecting PLEX.
Inject risk. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1009
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
BinaryData
Scorpius Federation Kleinrock Group
6
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Posted - 2012.10.12 03:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
I understand the original posters point. The inflation is outrageous. Case in point, Euro Dollar vs U.S. Dollar. The Euro dollar is nearly double what the American dollar is worth, therefor you have to spend twice as much to get what you want (out of the country).
I firmly believe that CCP does need to regulate it. |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen.
interesting thought, I like that... hmmm... def might help as the cost of the accountd would limit the number of "holding accounts' in most cases of small manipulation, but wouldn't do much for " Chinese gold farmer" types" Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1509
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen. I can see that working really well, what with the buddy program giving you a PLEX when your "buddy" signs up.
Yeah, think of all the limitations!!!!!
Injecting risk would actually work. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
961
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Gold and Silver shake the fraud out of the system, because you can't simply stamp it out on paper and make more of it, someone has to find it and get it physically out of the ground and bring it to market (real production) and then you can't sell more of it than there is (unless your in the "City" or "Wallstreet" in which case you can naked short it all you want I guess until the mob shows up with the certificates and trades them for torches and pitchforks...). Yes... gold and silver is very hard to cause fraud with due to its finite amounts. However this strength is also its PROBLEM because the workforce of the world will continue to grow and grow and grow. And with all those people working to get a chunk of that finite amount of gold and silver the value of those material(s) inherently goes up. That's one of the reasons that the "gold standard" died out.
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Putting PLEX to 400M max sell as a price control would keep the market steady and stop the "free" flow of easy ISK into the system... Someone doesn't seem to understand how PLEX works.
PLEX does not create ISK. It transfers it from one person to another. The reason for the current prices of PLEX is due to either...
- speculation (people buying up the market and reselling at higher prices... which is completely "okay" in a pure capitalistic system) - steady supply, high demand (more people are buying PLEX so they don't have to pay real money) - lower supply, steady demand (there are the same amount of PLEX users but less people are paying RL money for PLEX)
And bear in mind that one of the main principles that CCP stands by is "non-interference" in EVE. They create and repurpose tools and rules... but they will never directly stop people from doing anything unless they pose a grave risk to the integrity of the game itself (ex. crashing the server, singling out and harassing a single player over a longer stretch of time for no good reason, etc). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
661
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
They don't need to artificially deflate plex cost. It's called a bubble. It's going to be hilarious when the legs are cut out from under it and the price starts to REALLY crash. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 06:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Most of you WoW kids are communist socialistic turds that think everything should be handed to them, so go ahead and inject plex, plex for everyone! jking. A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1517
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 06:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:Most of you WoW kids are communist socialistic turds that think everything should be handed to them, so go ahead and inject plex, plex for everyone! jking.
PLEX for Winter Holidays! SWEET! Also joking. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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