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Tech3ZH
Estel Arador Corp Services
39
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Posted - 2012.10.12 06:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Inject PLEX before leaving the station! ...oh...wait...that's not what's being talked about, is it? Dang, not again... |
Akrasjel Lanate
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
790
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 06:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
He mad |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4880
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 06:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:CCP should inject PLEX at a fixed price to knock the price down [and decrease the amount of ISK inflow per] until the market is back to 300-400M per... for 19.50 RL... that would help CCP's bottom line, keep the speculators in check, and deflate the price of other items as speculation goes down and real production builds back up the supply of other items...
... and consider a fixed max price of PLEX at a point in which it wouldn't allow prices above that price in sell orders and then let the market drive the price under that point... with that in place the PLEX to ISK would even out, and be like a "gold / silver " standard to RL money in the economy and anchor some valuation to PLEX in ISK, and in RL funds.
I too think that CCP should give away a few tens of thousands of dollars so that you can keep playing for free.
Wait, no I don't MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4882
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 06:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen.
Yes, this definitely isn't suceptible to being worked around
How about you just accept that
(1) Lots of people want to play EVE for free, and are willing to give their ISK for this.
(2) A finite number of people want to spend extra money on EVE in order to get ISK
Where (1) is larger than (2), the market price of PLEX will rise until the number of people willing to pay the going rate for a PLEX drops into equilibrium with (2)
The "problem" is purely and simply that not enough people are buying PLEX for real money and selling it for ISK to keep the ISK price down to a level that you have decided is appropriate.
If CCP capped the PLEX price in some way, then even fewer would pay $35 for a GTC, so there would be less PLEX available. But demand wouldn't have changed, so all you've done is create a black market, which means that even fewer PLEX would be available on the open market for the "official" price.
As it is, I understand that CCP use PLEX and ISK siezed from RMTers and botters to dampen out speculative surges on the PLEX market. But against a long term trend, this tactic will eventually be ineffective.
The simple fact is that trillions of new ISK flood into the EVE economy every month, and the number of people actually play stays constant. There are more and more ISK available to buy PLEX with, and the number of new PLEX being created isn't changing much. Therefore PLEX prices rise.
If you want to stop PLEX prices rising, encourage CCP to create new ISK sinks and throttle back ISK fountains. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1519
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Posted - 2012.10.12 07:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Bienator II wrote:What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen. Yes, this definitely isn't suceptible to being worked around How about you just accept that (1) Lots of people want to play EVE for free, and are willing to give their ISK for this. (2) A finite number of people want to spend extra money on EVE in order to get ISK Where (1) is larger than (2), the market price of PLEX will rise until the number of people willing to pay the going rate for a PLEX drops into equilibrium with (2) The "problem" is purely and simply that not enough people are buying PLEX for real money and selling it for ISK to keep the ISK price down to a level that you have decided is appropriate. If CCP capped the PLEX price in some way, then even fewer would pay $35 for a GTC, so there would be less PLEX available. But demand wouldn't have changed, so all you've done is create a black market, which means that even fewer PLEX would be available on the open market for the "official" price. As it is, I understand that CCP use PLEX and ISK siezed from RMTers and botters to dampen out speculative surges on the PLEX market. But against a long term trend, this tactic will eventually be ineffective. The simple fact is that trillions of new ISK flood into the EVE economy every month, and the number of people actually play stays constant. There are more and more ISK available to buy PLEX with, and the number of new PLEX being created isn't changing much. Therefore PLEX prices rise. If you want to stop PLEX prices rising, encourage CCP to create new ISK sinks and throttle back ISK fountains. I wanted to point out that when products' values are high, more ISK is destroyed in every single transaction.
That's good for Eve's economy, both virtual and real.
We can achieve that through added risk. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
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Posted - 2012.10.12 07:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sounds like everyone's in to the theory that if war is good for the economy, nuclear war is better and blowing up the planet is best of all... think of the expense of arms and the profits... never mind no one would survive to enjoy the bounty!...
You all have swollowed the modern economic cool-aide by the bucket load... perhaps you should look more at what Thomas Paine commented on about 1800s on the other options... Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
Tech3ZH
Estel Arador Corp Services
41
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Posted - 2012.10.12 07:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
So...are you saying nuke Jita? |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1533
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 07:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Sounds like everyone's in to the theory that if war is good for the economy, nuclear war is better and blowing up the planet is best of all... think of the expense of arms and the profits... never mind no one would survive to enjoy the bounty!... You all have swollowed the modern economic cool-aide by the bucket load... perhaps you should look more at what Thomas Paine commented on about 1800s on the other options... I sit with the "American School" ... not the others... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics) Well there's an obvious difference between risk and shutting down the servers. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Jim Hazard
Scrubfleet
25
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Posted - 2012.10.12 08:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Aurelius Valentius wrote:
So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe
But again, ETC/PLEX doesn't dump or add any ISK to the game at all. Selling a PLEX in game only moves ISK from one player to another. Not quite... becaue while ISK is moved around, and not created, it's like a credit card... you can grand yourself "potential ISK" to use as a means to collateralize your gambling... Lets say I whip out the CC and drop 10,000.00 RL on ETC... and then go into game... PLEX in hand... then I park myself in Jita and Amarr and a few other hubs and start to use my new PLEX hoard to fund a "pump and dump" PLEX campaign against the people working for PLEX with time spend mining, producing and so on... I buy up and hoard, and only resell on the highest end... any one lower I keep off the market with "buying cheap" and "selling dear" until I have taken most fo the competition off the make and left only my much inflated prices monopolies on the market... now I am not sayin one person could do this, (they could) but def large groups of people could easily do this to the market... and that seems to be the case here, it's an economic war against the working-class of EVE in a sense... People that put in time to work to play v. people that simply pump in RL funds to fund "golden ammo" in a sense and play with no stake in the economy other an as consumers, while the producers of the goods are starved out of the game in a sense. *** No angst here btw... I am fine with it, one way or another - EVE is EVE, I just think it's odd that PLEX is going up so much when for so long it was rather like a "gold standard"... not any more now...
Hey Mr. Economics genius how about you go and talk to some people in RL about how good cornering a market works 90% of the time. I am sure they will make very happy faces when they tell you the story how they lost millions or even billions trying to do that.
That kind of idea will not work in your favor for 1 very simple reason. You can not get the monopoly on the Plex market like that. Yes you can drive the price up temporary, but you will not be able to keep the price up without investing over and over again and at some point will run out of ISK reserves to keep buying the plex of anyone else putting plex on the market. And if you try to force the price staying at a certain level all you do is invest over and over again while the people who only ride on the wave make a fortune.
But hey go for it. I will gladly jump on the train and make some money from your attempt to corner the market while you keep stockpiling your plex until you run out of ISK and crash the market yourself at some point. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
161
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 08:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote: So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe and collecting 1/2 the RL money for it... and it's injecting "cheap" money into the economy... which allows for more "speculation" and less "production" of real economic grown... as Mitten's put it... "bubble"
So much wat(tm) "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
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Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1573
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 09:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:And bear in mind that one of the main principles that CCP stands by is "non-interference" in EVE. They create and repurpose tools and rules... but they will never directly stop people from doing anything unless they pose a grave risk to the integrity of the game itself (ex. crashing the server, singling out and harassing a single player over a longer stretch of time for no good reason, etc). While it's correct, that policy applies to a lesser extent regarding PLEX. CCP has clearly stated that the Eve Central Bank may interfere with the PLEX market if needed. PLEX is the only single market item in the game that's closely monitored and can be regulated by CCP for various reasons (see the state of economy presentation during fanfest). "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
176
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 10:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
I think PLEX should be a fixed price as I don't understand economics.
I TL;DR'd the OPs post for everyone.
The Soviet Union used price fixing too, and everyone knows how much of a ~powerhouse~ their economy was. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1328
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 19:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Sounds like everyone's in to the theory that if war is good for the economy, nuclear war is better and blowing up the planet is best of all... think of the expense of arms and the profits... never mind no one would survive to enjoy the bounty!... You all have swollowed the modern economic cool-aide by the bucket load... perhaps you should look more at what Thomas Paine commented on about 1800s on the other options... I sit with the "American School" ... not the others... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics) No we are just trying to tell you that the EVE economy (and PLEX) does not work how you think it does.
If CCP sold PLEX on the market, they would lose money.
As it is right now: Person A buys PLEX with real money (CCP gets paid). Person A sells PLEX for ISK (which came from someone else, so no net gain of ISK, minor loss due to taxes).
Your idea: Person A buys PLEX for ISK from CCP. CCP loses money (about $19) and isk is taken out of the in game economy.
One part is great. However, the fact that CCP would lose almost all their income from this makes it a very very very bad idea. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
80
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Posted - 2012.10.12 19:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
You sound stressed. www.youtube.com
watch Lindsey Stirling and breathe in watch Lindsey Stirling and breathe out
relax and enjoy.
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Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
18
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Posted - 2012.10.12 20:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Wait - how about if we could MINE Plexite roids in all belts and then refine into Plex but only in null-sec refineries?
hehe |
Ur235
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
40
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Posted - 2012.10.12 21:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
check plex prices now they have dropped by 40mill isk.. ish in 2 days stop whining hmm |
Cheshirepus
Divinity Rising
4
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Posted - 2012.10.12 21:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
I have to deal with enough fiat currencies, Keynesian economics, and government manipulation of the market in the real world as it is.
Leave my free market alone... even if it is just a fantasy one.
Not like you couldn't buy a PLEX for $15 right now, sell it for 600M ISK and use the capital as an investment base for other things (even PLEX later on down the road if/when the bubble eventually bursts). |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 21:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.
-Karl Marx |
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
68
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 21:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
These plex threads are getting boring as hell.
Market. Supply. Demand.
Deal with it. Quit crying like babies because you don't work a real job and can't afford to pay for your accounts.
Be glad that Eve has a mechanism in place at all that allows you to play for free if you don't completely suck at the game. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4901
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 08:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
No no, I want to hear more about how people shouldn't be allowed to charge so much ISK for paying CCP to let me play for free. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
384
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 07:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Out of curiosity is all of Eve going to get a warning before Dr E releases confiscated PLEX onto the markets or just the CSMs like he mentioned last fanfest? Will this be a 1 hour warning or a 1 day warning or EX POST FACTO??? Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr so ist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |
Mortucus Taylor
Eve Shadow Academy TSOE Consortium
0
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Posted - 2012.10.15 07:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
1 plex is supply and demand 2 no new isk is made from selling plex just a changing of hands 3 u either pay for your game time or u buy plex = supply and demand 4 the seller of plex wants his moneys worth they dictate what that is just like any free market 5 injecting plex cost ccp money why would they do that ....lol 6 START A TRADE WAR IF U DONT LIKE IT and undercut your competition 7 if u cant afford to play then don't i'm sorry but its 15 $ if u cant afford that drop the alts and play one acc if u still cant afford it be thankfull plex is even available every other game i play u pay to play or u dont play
lots of people buying plex at the moment thats why prices are so hi simple |
Borascus
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
68
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 07:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
If you look at the fundamentals;
Player/s that have accumulated ISK are purging the sell orders (meaning the true supply will be recorded). Its nearing winter (Northern Hemisphere) when people want to stay in doors, they'll likely see the inflated price of PLEX and drop summer wages to maximise return (if the bubble collapses they'll profit) The player that wants to fund with PLEX will be forced to farm ISK for longer (meaning they are in the game and available longer) The player that cannot find the time to farm enough ISK for PLEX might just be unable to continue playing, meaning a net loss in active connections.
This market volatility has its plus sides, but some may never return from it, thats the bad thing. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
895
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 07:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:No no, I want to hear more about how people shouldn't be allowed to charge so much ISK for paying CCP to let me play for free.
haha, yes please. I too wish to read all these "facts".
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
183
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 08:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
How then will i make masses of isk when i sell a bunch of plex's?
Welcome to EvE's player driven economy!! |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
164
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Posted - 2012.10.15 08:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
I am here to defend the player driven free market. Stop moaning about (player made!) plex prices. If it's too high for you, don't buy it. Easiest solution ever. If you have 99 or so accounts and cannot afford them anymore with ingame currency (= for free IRL), then well, I am very sorry for you.
This really sums it up pretty well:
Mortucus Taylor wrote:1 plex is supply and demand 2 no new isk is made from selling plex just a changing of hands 3 u either pay for your game time or u buy plex = supply and demand 4 the seller of plex wants his moneys worth they dictate what that is just like any free market 5 injecting plex cost ccp money why would they do that ....lol 6 START A TRADE WAR IF U DONT LIKE IT and undercut your competition 7 if u cant afford to play then don't i'm sorry but its 15 $ if u cant afford that drop the alts and play one acc if u still cant afford it be thankfull plex is even available every other game i play u pay to play or u dont play
lots of people buying plex at the moment thats why prices are so hi simple
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4908
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 08:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Out of curiosity is all of Eve going to get a warning before Dr E releases confiscated PLEX onto the markets or just the CSMs like he mentioned last fanfest? Will this be a 1 hour warning or a 1 day warning or EX POST FACTO???
Why should they say anything at all? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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