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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 93 post(s) |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
741
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:06:00 -
[151] - Quote
So this thread is pointless? Just delete the post that question, questionable actions? Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. Should I inform Jeff Dunham Achmed the Dead Terrorist is acting out? |
Reptail
Bank Robbers
18
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:08:00 -
[152] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:So this thread is pointless? Just delete the post the question, questionable actions?
:) i saw it Ground-á Shiwer |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
741
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:09:00 -
[153] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Lord Ryan wrote:Someone might want to look at the don't pick on goons thread locked crap. Apparently it's not a problem unless it's goon. Pretty transparent. You and everyone else have been asked to avoid 'specific' actions in this thread, you know what you need to do if you think something needs investigating. Thanks. Edit: By specific, "don't pick on goons thread locked crap" is pretty specific.
Really I seem have missed that thread. Was that in GD? How much less specific should I be?
Oh I get it.
Someone did something bad to a thread. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. Should I inform Jeff Dunham Achmed the Dead Terrorist is acting out? |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
520
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:15:00 -
[154] - Quote
No,
I deleted the off-topic , partially offensive post that once again brings into light you trying to bring the debate to discuss a specific topic.
If you've got some kind of agenda against CCL, you should remember that it's not the forum moderators that ban people. If you're not going to report the threads that you 'claim' to bring our actions into disrepute, could that be because you know it won't stand up to investigation by CCP ?
If you continue this crusade against CCL without any good evidence, or continue to sling insults and allegations then it won't be CCL taking action, it'll be the community team. ISD Suvetar,-áCaptain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department We are hiring! |
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Reptail
Bank Robbers
19
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:27:00 -
[155] - Quote
So we aren't able to discuss moderation here , not allowed to open new threads about it , sounds a bit one sided stuff. Two posts removed for no reason. Try not to remove this one please. Ground-á Shiwer |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
742
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:30:00 -
[156] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:No,
I deleted the off-topic , partially offensive post that once again brings into light you trying to bring the debate to discuss a specific topic.
If you've got some kind of agenda against CCL, you should remember that it's not the forum moderators that ban people. If you're not going to report the threads that you 'claim' to bring our actions into disrepute, could that be because you know it won't stand up to investigation by CCP ?
If you continue this crusade against CCL without any good evidence, or continue to sling insults and allegations then it won't be CCL taking action, it'll be the community team.
Sounds like another personal attack on me. CCP can clearly see you attacking me again, yet do nothing about it. If I file a private compliant am I to expect different out come?
Can they see all my post you delete? Or just the ones you point out?
And good evidence you just delete.
Or is this where you ask for citation than backtrack again?
I don't have a problem with CCL, I have a problem with attacking people you don't like. Deleting my post. And what makes you think it's ok for you to attack, but not us?
And I do report when you take unjust actions on someone else, which is usually followed by my post being deleted.
But that's the point isn't. Irritate me till I go off. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. Should I inform Jeff Dunham Achmed the Dead Terrorist is acting out? |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
745
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:41:00 -
[157] - Quote
I'm done you've killed the forums! I come here(pay) for fun, not to be harassed. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. Should I inform Jeff Dunham Achmed the Dead Terrorist is acting out? |
Reptail
Bank Robbers
20
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Posted - 2012.10.22 01:54:00 -
[158] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:I'm done you've killed the forums! I come here(pay) for fun, not to be harassed.
I love lost causes :) , and probably this post will be removed so i won't be a martir, but i'll gladly lose my account if it serves as an example in eve as well as RL. /o :P, but things need to change ! So let your voice be heard people here and everywhere! Reptail raises your fist! :D. ok i'm ready you may BAN me now, adios.
Ground-á Shiwer |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
230
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Posted - 2012.10.22 02:33:00 -
[159] - Quote
What is everyone's opinion on moderators noting on a post if the user gets banned or warned because of it? |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
104
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Posted - 2012.10.22 02:43:00 -
[160] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Someone might want to look at the don't pick on goons thread locked crap. Apparently it's not a problem unless it's goon. Pretty transparent. ISD Suvetar wrote:You and everyone else have been asked to avoid 'specific' actions in this thread, you know what you need to do if you think something needs investigating.
Thanks.
Edit: By specific, "don't pick on goons thread locked crap" is pretty specific. Lord Ryan wrote:So this thread is pointless? Just delete the post that question, questionable actions? Lord Ryan, if you think there is some specific moderation errors occurring ("... don't pick on goons ...") then your proper action should be either:
- report the moderator's post which says that,
- petition the moderator's post which says that, or
- email [email protected] requesting that it be investigated.
Bringing it here won't accomplish what you presumably want (unless your desire is just to be annoying -- in which case: mission accomplished!) An example of what would be "in bounds" would be to ask about how does CCL prevent biased moderation (if that is what you claim is happening), or to suggest ways to preclude biased moderation. If you think that whichever rule precludes "picking on" is improper, then that would be in bounds, too.
The point of this thread is to talk about moderation in the general sense, not to discuss particular moderation actions. (You may, within limits, cite specific moderator actions to support more general claims, however.)
MDD |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
105
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Posted - 2012.10.22 02:49:00 -
[161] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Please bear in mind that despite its pretty harsh and dark setting, EVE is an ESRB "Teen" rated game. Lets look at the definition of a "Teen" rating from the ESRB : Quote:TEEN Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language. While we all appreciate good humor and a little bad language is fine, what has been going on on these forums in the past has been far from teen rated, and far from acceptable.
These forum's are CCP hf.'s, and they're free to demand that posters behave however CCP hf wishes. But it does you and CCP hf no good for you to argue positions that fail to hold up to fact checking. As Vera pointed out, the ESRB rating applies only to content created by CCP. Content created by the players is explicitly disclaimed by CCP hf (legalese for "that's not us!"), so the ESRB rating does not apply. That doesn't mean that other web presence regulations/ratings wouldn't be applicable though.
MDD |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
105
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Posted - 2012.10.22 03:02:00 -
[162] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:What is everyone's opinion on moderators noting on a post if the user gets banned or warned because of it? Well, I suppose my first thought is "what is the purpose of making those actions public?"
- Public shaming will reduce recurrence for that character/player
- Public shaming will reduce copycat offences
- Public announcement will make it easier for the remaining players to "learn by example" those actions which are out-of-bounds
Maybe there are some other potential positives I don't realize.
Potential negatives:
- "Public shaming" becomes a goal for a subset of players/characters, causing intentional rule breaking
- Public acknowledgement encourages public debate over the specific moderation action (CCP believes this is undesirable)
- More work for CCP (ISD neither bans nor warns players; that is strictly the responsibility of the CCP Community team)
From the above, I see no compelling reason to make a ban or a warning public.
Inquisitor Kitchner, do you have some point I've overlooked?
MDD |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
105
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Posted - 2012.10.22 03:10:00 -
[163] - Quote
Bart Starr wrote:Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people. I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe".
MDD
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 09:22:00 -
[164] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Vera: I'll direct you to CCP Falcon's post about that here CCP Falcon's post just reiterates the criteria for a ESRB "Teen" rating - which is useless as forum posts or in-game chat are not even considered in the ESRB rating.
Quote:Do ESRB ratings address online-enabled game elements like player chat, player-generated content or downloadable music?ESRB age ratings only address content created by the publisher and do not consider content that is created or introduced by individual players or other third parties when playing the game online. However, ESRB-rated games that can be played online with other players and facilitate exposure to user-generated content must display an Online Rating Notice that states: "Online Interactions Not Rated By The ESRB." This notice is intended to warn consumers about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment. ESRB-rated mobile apps may display a similar notice regarding potential exposure to user-generated content, among other pertinent app elements. Games that allow users to download songs not considered in the ESRB rating assignment will display the Music DLC Notice, which reads: "Music Downloads Not Rated By The ESRB." This content does not have to be submitted to ESRB for rating but the provider must display the Music DLC Notice and, if appropriate, an RIAA Parental Advisory logo prior to download or purchase. http://www.esrb.org/ratings/faq.jsp#13a
If they wanted the ESRB could of course require companies to submit their moderation & filtering policies for player-generated content and consider these in the rating - but they don't. Maybe they don't because it would provide little in terms of guarantee and only expose the ESRB to criticism (how would someone who has never played EVE recognize the importance of a missing "don't create obscene pictures using anchored cans" policy?) or maybe because the spot checks required to monitor enforcement of these policies would be extremely expensive. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
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CCP Falcon
C C P
196
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Posted - 2012.10.22 09:25:00 -
[165] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Please bear in mind that despite its pretty harsh and dark setting, EVE is an ESRB "Teen" rated game. Lets look at the definition of a "Teen" rating from the ESRB : Quote:TEEN Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language. While we all appreciate good humor and a little bad language is fine, what has been going on on these forums in the past has been far from teen rated, and far from acceptable. These forum's are CCP hf.'s, and they're free to demand that posters behave however CCP hf wishes. But it does you and CCP hf no good for you to argue positions that fail to hold up to fact checking. As Vera pointed out, the ESRB rating applies only to content created by CCP. Content created by the players is explicitly disclaimed by CCP hf (legalese for "that's not us!"), so the ESRB rating does not apply. That doesn't mean that other web presence regulations/ratings wouldn't be applicable though. MDD
The point of my post is that we're trying keep a uniform level of acceptable player interaction across both the game and the forums.
The forum rules are there for a reason, and as such people will be expected to follow them or run the risk of being moderated and potentially having their posting privileges removed either temporarily or permanently for repeated breaches of the rules.
In the end, there is very little difference between now and the forum moderation standard that was in place during the operation of ISD CRC during the early years of EVE. We've simply chosen to move back in that direction to tidy up the breaches of the forum rules that have been occurring during the period where there was no specific team responsible for moderating the forums.
Frankly, most of the stuff that goes on on these forums has made me laugh my ass off for the last 10 years or so, but in the same respect while we all love to laugh and joke, the line is always there and shouldn't be crossed.
There are rules, they will be followed, and they will be respected. Likewise, you will all learn to respect each other, and our ISD volunteers. Those who don't will sadly end up being on the bad end of a forum gag if they repeatedly choose to ignore the rules. Be it on their own heads.
CCP Falcon -á-á||-á-áEVE Community Developer -á-á|| -á-áEVE Illuminati -á||-á-á@CCP_Falcon |
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Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
127
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 09:32:00 -
[166] - Quote
I don't understand why a thread such as "Like and get likes" is allowed to exist, because it is completely without EVE content and 'off topic'.
The "Avatar above me" grabass threads have little to no EVE content, and as such should be locked.
In addition, the "avatar" threads are multiples of the same topic and should be consolidated. (ie, 4 or 5 of them should be locked for redundancy, and participants redirected to one thread.) And at the very least, they should be moved to a less important part of the forums.
Its mind boggling how these threads have been allowed to exist, while other threads are locked daily for similar violations.
Actually, its not so mind-boggling.
If the ISD's 'like' a thread, it doesn't really matter if it clearly violates forum rules or not. Terrible precedent to set.
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Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
127
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Posted - 2012.10.22 09:44:00 -
[167] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
There are rules, they will be followed, and they will be respected. Likewise, you will all learn to respect each other, and our ISD volunteers. Those who don't will sadly end up being on the bad end of a forum gag if they repeatedly choose to ignore the rules. Be it on their own heads.
Exactly. Please consult these threads:
"Like and get Likes" Violates: Rule #17 All posts must be about or related to EVE online.
"Rate the avatar above you" "What would you say if you woke up to the Avatar above you in bed" (Teen rated?) "What is the avatar above you thinking" "Hate the Avatar above you"
Lack of content and....
#14 Redundant threads will be deleted.
As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an active thread on that topic has already been established. If so, place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forum needlessly and many good ideas may be lost. Keep discussions about one topic to one thread only.
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
265
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Posted - 2012.10.22 09:57:00 -
[168] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:Bart Starr wrote:Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people. I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe". MDD This!
Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!
Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.
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CCP Falcon
C C P
196
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Posted - 2012.10.22 10:03:00 -
[169] - Quote
Bart Starr wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:
There are rules, they will be followed, and they will be respected. Likewise, you will all learn to respect each other, and our ISD volunteers. Those who don't will sadly end up being on the bad end of a forum gag if they repeatedly choose to ignore the rules. Be it on their own heads.
Exactly. Please consult these threads: "Like and get Likes" Violates: Rule #17 All posts must be about or related to EVE online."Rate the avatar above you" "What would you say if you woke up to the Avatar above you in bed" (Teen rated?) "What is the avatar above you thinking" "Hate the Avatar above you" Lack of content and.... #14 Redundant threads will be deleted. As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an active thread on that topic has already been established. If so, place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forum needlessly and many good ideas may be lost. Keep discussions about one topic to one thread only.
These threads have been permitted to stay due to the fact that so many of them sprung up after the Incarna launch. We felt it better that we had a centralized place for each of these topics rather than 500 separate threads on the same thing. As such we selected the most popular of each of them and allowed them to remain, then closed the surplus threads.
Really, it's not rocket science that this is what happened and is blatantly obvious to anyone that this is why these threads remain open.
The fact of the matter is that you can try and push on technicalities and grey areas all day. In the end, these threads are there to assist us in keeping the subjects contained into single threads, and the ISD team with their moderation duties. These threads are moderated just the same as any other thread on the forums, and if you have an issue with a post that's made in them you can use the report button and it'll be reviewed.
CCP Falcon -á-á||-á-áEVE Community Developer -á-á|| -á-áEVE Illuminati -á||-á-á@CCP_Falcon |
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CCP Falcon
C C P
196
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Posted - 2012.10.22 10:05:00 -
[170] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:Bart Starr wrote:Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people. I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe". MDD This! Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.
Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts".
CCP Falcon -á-á||-á-áEVE Community Developer -á-á|| -á-áEVE Illuminati -á||-á-á@CCP_Falcon |
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DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
422
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Posted - 2012.10.22 10:12:00 -
[171] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:Bart Starr wrote:Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people. I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe". MDD This! Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing. Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". Why isn't it possible to hide devposts? Ungi ma+¦urinn ++ekkir reglurnar, en gamli ma+¦urinn ++ekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions. |
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CCP Falcon
C C P
196
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Posted - 2012.10.22 10:14:00 -
[172] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:Bart Starr wrote:Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people. I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe". MDD This! Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing. Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". Why isn't it possible to hide devposts?
Because we're sneaky. Very, very, sneaky. <3
CCP Falcon -á-á||-á-áEVE Community Developer -á-á|| -á-áEVE Illuminati -á||-á-á@CCP_Falcon |
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
233
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Posted - 2012.10.22 12:23:00 -
[173] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:What is everyone's opinion on moderators noting on a post if the user gets banned or warned because of it? Well, I suppose my first thought is "what is the purpose of making those actions public?"
- Public shaming will reduce recurrence for that character/player
- Public shaming will reduce copycat offences
- Public announcement will make it easier for the remaining players to "learn by example" those actions which are out-of-bounds
Maybe there are some other potential positives I don't realize. Potential negatives:
- "Public shaming" becomes a goal for a subset of players/characters, causing intentional rule breaking
- Public acknowledgement encourages public debate over the specific moderation action (CCP believes this is undesirable)
- More work for CCP (ISD neither bans nor warns players; that is strictly the responsibility of the CCP Community team)
From the above, I see no compelling reason to make a ban or a warning public. Inquisitor Kitchner, do you have some point I've overlooked? MDD
No your positives pretty much cover it off, other then the 2nd negative I don't think the other two carry any weight.
Some players may have a goal for "public shaming" however that's no different to now. I started a thread called "Post in this thread every day there isn't a dev blog" pretty much knowing it was going to get locked. It's only the repeat offenders that would get any actions taken against them anyway, in which case if you threaten to ban their actual game account rather then a posting alt they may think twice.
In terms of the public debate over moderation, it may increase debate in the short term, which means extra work closing threads and telling people to file petitions however isn't the point that CCP wants feedback? Over time as the warning/banning or whatever would become more in line with what the community wants and therefore less debate would occur.
Also I don't know if there's a technical reason why it isn't done but I'm all in favour of temporary read only bans as punishments for terrible posters. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
527
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 12:47:00 -
[174] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:I didn't say they ban sales of mature games - it's just a self policed rating system that is taken seriously by the majority of the games publishers that operate there.
hiii, EVE doesn't require a you to buy a CD/DVD to start playing... anyone going into a store to buy eve is stupid when you can just go to the website and download it, then activate the game by paying on the site... what kind of publishers are you worried about losing by getting a M rating? I believe that a M rating would be good for eve... because thats the kind of audience it should attract, mature players...
Maybe this is the problem at the core that has been going on for a while now, Carebear haven T rating.... trying to make flowers and rainbows so the T rating is kept "be nice to eachother" wubtidubtidub :) Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
533
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Posted - 2012.10.22 13:26:00 -
[175] - Quote
I think the safest option is to refer you back to CCP Falcon's new post about this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2077934#post2077934
Thanks. ISD Suvetar,-áCaptain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department We are hiring! |
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Reptail
Bank Robbers
27
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Posted - 2012.10.22 14:04:00 -
[176] - Quote
A ok good to know , then spamming in the four "no rule follower" threads is allowed , nice, now i know where to post Ground-á Shiwer |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
106
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 14:37:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:Bart Starr wrote:Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people. I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe". MDD This! Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing. Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". I can't tell if you're trolling me or simply responding strictly to Lors. Please tell me you realize that what I asked for is not at all the same as the solution you posited above.
MDD
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
106
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Posted - 2012.10.22 14:42:00 -
[178] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:In terms of the public debate over moderation, it may increase debate in the short term, which means extra work closing threads and telling people to file petitions however isn't the point that CCP wants feedback? Over time as the warning/banning or whatever would become more in line with what the community wants and therefore less debate would occur. CCP has (at times quite pointedly) prohibited public discussion of bans since forever. I have no reason to doubt that they do this for good reason. Perhaps they would care to state (or re-state) why.
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Also I don't know if there's a technical reason why it isn't done but I'm all in favour of temporary read only bans as punishments for terrible posters. I believe that, for the vast majority of bans, they are temporary. And you don't have to have an active Eve account to read the forums. So I believe that things now are as you seem to be stating you wish them to be. Am I missing something?
MDD |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
106
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 14:47:00 -
[179] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:Why isn't it possible to hide devposts?
CCP Falcon wrote:Because we're sneaky. Very, very, sneaky. <3 I think DeBingJos was being serious. Is there a good reason why dev posts may not be hidden?
MDD
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Nanatoa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2012.10.22 14:58:00 -
[180] - Quote
Because dev posts are always serious and filled with valuable content It is never too late to turn from the errors of your ways: He who repents of his sins is almost innocent.
MinerBumping.com |
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