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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2581
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Posted - 2012.10.16 21:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
Quote:1. EVE pvp is a joke amongst competitive pvpers. It is viewed as a game that requires very little skill and has an extremely low skill ceiling. In EVE, you don't beat your opponents because you were a more skilled player, you beat them because you were fortunate enough to choose correct modules and were in the right ship and knew how to operate it, which also isn't something terribly difficult. When compared to the skills of pro players in other competitive e-sport games like starcraft2, you can see a enormous margin of what is required of the player. There is no need for tactical use of terrain, nor a need for high coordination, aiming or high actions per minute, nor micromanage, very little strategy is involved, and the reactionary abilities of your opponents are extremely limited. These pvp mechanics do not attract skilled, competitive gamers, they are the things that make them shy away.
I always enjoy comments like this.
You will find a fair number of people that feel the same way, usually in the victim column of any kill board. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
135
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Posted - 2012.10.16 21:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:I feel that $10,000 could be better spent hiring more devs
The best thing about this is that it's devs, plural.
Unbelievable. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
301
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:07:00 -
[63] - Quote
I wa sunder the impression the tourney paid for itself anyway. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
349
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:Just a quick heads up. I confirmed this with CCP Falcon as I suspected people had the wrong idea, but the Tournament prize is actually being provided by own3D and not CCP.
I have read that as well. But if it is "free" to CCP, why is CCP charging so much just to get into the auction process?
I am not going to get into the "when a plex is purchased ingame, no imgame money is created, nor does RL money change hands". That is understood.
But the fact remains, Eve ISK is a currency that has a value against other currencies in the world, and an exchange rate is established by RMT, Plex sales, whatever you choose to use as an arbitrage instrument.
Also, if CCP is not giving Owned cash for Owned to host this tourney, then what is Owned getting out of it? |
Tao Arnst
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:10:00 -
[65] - Quote
STOP removing my post!!! wtf?
What was wrong wit that last one?!!
Maybe u should just have a draft thread filled wit MAD sheets so we can fill in the words......
No Freedom of Speech in Britain?!
I'm glad to be an American..where at least I know I'm Free... And to all the Men who gave their lives...to give that Right to me.... da...da.dada...
Should play that song over and over again in ccp HQ ;P Was the Title "Inferno" given to this release because its a Steaming Pile of S**t? Most people embrace GOOD change Parasites embrace BAD change ccp supports the degradation of society |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1931
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
I have removed numerous off topic, troll and personal attack posts from this thread. Please try to remain on topic and leave the insults out of it, all it does destroy a good discussion - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
125
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:I feel that $10,000 could be better spent hiring more devs The best thing about this is that it's devs, plural. Unbelievable.
How ignorant of you. Makes perfectly sense from Op's perspective. He get's 100$ per month from his mom. His brother is two years older and gets 120$ per month. A typical def may be 30-40 years old, so extrapolating from what he knows you get a lot of devs. I mean math and logic is easy, no skill needed, only idiots study math. nobody would watch math on own3d. |
Tao Arnst
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:20:00 -
[68] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:I have removed numerous off topic, troll and personal attack posts from this thread. Please try to remain on topic and leave the insults out of it, all it does destroy a good discussion - ISD Type40.
It's a little unclear on what words or w/e ur talking about, or maybe ur 'DELETE' key is just stuck ;p
Can I say 'german'? I see that the german 'n' word is filtered, I guess i can kinda understand that considering ccp is in euro,... but...rly? lol Was the Title "Inferno" given to this release because its a Steaming Pile of S**t? Most people embrace GOOD change Parasites embrace BAD change ccp supports the degradation of society |
Bodega Cat
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
25
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:Just a quick heads up. I confirmed this with CCP Falcon as I suspected people had the wrong idea, but the Tournament prize is actually being provided by own3D and not CCP. I guess I made this post on the wrong forum then. Time to educate owe3D about their future failed experiment. While beams of light shooting back and forth may be entertaining for people with a child-like sense of appreciation. There is no way they are going to make that money back from EVE viewers since nobody who doesn't play EVE is going to watch. Maybe if toddlers knew how to operate computers. Some pro players who stream themselves playing on SC2 ladder get more views than EVE tournaments do. I have to wonder if it was the subscription numbers that fooled them.
If you actually think Own3d isn't comfortable operating on a loss to grow their market by and large then you don't know a thing about E-Sports either. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
369
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tao Arnst wrote:STOP removing my post!!! wtf?
What was wrong wit that last one?!!
Maybe u should just have a draft thread filled wit MAD sheets so we can fill in the words......
No Freedom of Speech in Britain?!
I'm glad to be an American..where at least I know I'm Free... And to all the Men who gave their lives...to give that Right to me.... da...da.dada...
Should play that song over and over again in ccp HQ ;P
And you sir are the type of idiot American that gives the world a bad impression of the rest of America. CCP is in Iceland. I know our education system may be lacking, but even if you payed a little attention, you would know the difference between Britain and Iceland.
Grow up! |
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Tao Arnst
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
Are we not allowed to post to 'Ranger 1'?
No matter how short, or trying to use less words, you continue to remove any post I make in regards to 'Ranger 1' Was the Title "Inferno" given to this release because its a Steaming Pile of S**t? Most people embrace GOOD change Parasites embrace BAD change ccp supports the degradation of society |
Tao Arnst
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Tao Arnst wrote:STOP removing my post!!! wtf?
What was wrong wit that last one?!!
Maybe u should just have a draft thread filled wit MAD sheets so we can fill in the words......
No Freedom of Speech in Britain?!
I'm glad to be an American..where at least I know I'm Free... And to all the Men who gave their lives...to give that Right to me.... da...da.dada...
Should play that song over and over again in ccp HQ ;P And you sir are the type of idiot American that gives the world a bad impression if the rest of America. CCP us in Iceland. I know our education system may be lacking, but even if you payed a little attention, you would know the difference between Britain and Iceland. Grow up!
ahh...that explains the nodes running thru euro then..... Was the Title "Inferno" given to this release because its a Steaming Pile of S**t? Most people embrace GOOD change Parasites embrace BAD change ccp supports the degradation of society |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:I feel that $10,000 could be better spent hiring more devs The best thing about this is that it's devs, plural. Unbelievable. How ignorant of you. Makes perfectly sense from Op's perspective. He get's 100$ per month from his mom. His brother is two years older and gets 120$ per month. A typical def may be 30-40 years old, so extrapolating from what he knows you get a lot of devs. I mean math and logic is easy, no skill needed, only idiots study math. nobody would watch math on own3d.
lol, its hilarious the number of angry derps who are trying to narrow the context of this statement to whatever they can in a pathetic attempt for an argument. Some of you dumb kids were even claiming a single dev costs 10,000$ a month
Of course one could assume there may be more tournaments in the future, of which the future prize of that should also instead contribute to the salary of such devs that would be hired instead. I love how the ragers over this thread have arguments only based in fantasy and nonsensical statements that lack thought, something I expected. Try harder kiddies. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
722
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:32:00 -
[74] - Quote
Hi folks. I've removed some off topic posts and would like to remind you to keep it on topic and constructive to the topic at hand. If you have an issue with moderation, please report it or petition it. Thank you and have a pleasant day. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Commander Community Communication Liasions (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Taranius De Consolville
Curse Of The Chosen Border World Enterprises
250
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:35:00 -
[75] - Quote
Unfortunately you are correct
PvP is eve is perceived across gaming websites as a joke in the fact it takes no real skill, u either had the right ship with the right modules or u got owned by sumone who did. U can't hide or run, u just fight and die and the blob warfare becomes very boring very quickly.
CCP however do not see this and the huge change PvP needs. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
926
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:In EVE, you don't beat your opponents because you were a more skilled player, you beat them because you were fortunate enough to choose correct modules and were in the right ship and knew how to operate it, which also isn't something terribly difficult. The blind stupidity of this statement is hilarious.
Nerf Burger wrote:There is no need for tactical use of terrain, nor a need for high coordination, aiming or high actions per minute, nor micromanage, very little strategy is involved, and the reactionary abilities of your opponents are extremely limited. These pvp mechanics do not attract skilled, competitive gamers, they are the things that make them shy away. Apparently, skill == the ability to click quickly. Why did you take my wings away? |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
125
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Posted - 2012.10.16 22:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote: lol, its hilarious the number of angry derps who are trying to narrow the context of this statement to whatever they can in a pathetic attempt for an argument.
Take it easy bro, nobody is angry with you. We just make fun of your "statements", that's something different
Nerf Burger wrote:Some of you dumb kids were even claiming a single dev costs 10,000$ a month
Which would be accurate. Most developers are Engineers you know. But as i wrote, i understand your situation and i don't blame you for your ignorance.
Nerf Burger wrote:Of course one could assume there may be more tournaments in the future, of which the future prize of that should also instead contribute to the salary of such devs that would be hired instead. I love how the ragers over this thread have arguments only based in fantasy and nonsensical statements that lack thought, something I expected. Try harder kiddies.
Yeah sure bro, i'm sure it will all add up. lol |
Tao Arnst
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2012.10.16 23:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:In EVE, you don't beat your opponents because you were a more skilled player, you beat them because you were fortunate enough to choose correct modules and were in the right ship and knew how to operate it, which also isn't something terribly difficult. The blind stupidity of this statement is hilarious. Nerf Burger wrote:There is no need for tactical use of terrain, nor a need for high coordination, aiming or high actions per minute, nor micromanage, very little strategy is involved, and the reactionary abilities of your opponents are extremely limited. These pvp mechanics do not attract skilled, competitive gamers, they are the things that make them shy away. Apparently, skill == the ability to click quickly.
^ this post doesn't get removed? O_o.... Was the Title "Inferno" given to this release because its a Steaming Pile of S**t? Most people embrace GOOD change Parasites embrace BAD change ccp supports the degradation of society |
Metal Icarus
Endless Destruction Against ALL Anomalies
303
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Posted - 2012.10.16 23:05:00 -
[79] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Metal Icarus wrote:in b4 a team with ASB Slepnirs win.... again Given that a team can negate a ship type, this won't happen. Each team needs a backup plan incase their main fkwey us incapacitated by the rules that allow the opposing team to ban one ship type.
ASB Vindicators then, make your choice choose which one you want to lose to. |
God's Apples
The Tuskers
22
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Posted - 2012.10.16 23:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:CCP says they want to grow EVE pvp into some kind of e-sport, but that will never happen for the following reasons:
1. EVE pvp is a joke amongst competitive pvpers. It is viewed as a game that requires very little skill and has an extremely low skill ceiling.
So you know nothing about PvP then call PvP worthless and boring, mkay. |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2584
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Posted - 2012.10.17 00:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
Tao Arnst wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:In EVE, you don't beat your opponents because you were a more skilled player, you beat them because you were fortunate enough to choose correct modules and were in the right ship and knew how to operate it, which also isn't something terribly difficult. The blind stupidity of this statement is hilarious. Nerf Burger wrote:There is no need for tactical use of terrain, nor a need for high coordination, aiming or high actions per minute, nor micromanage, very little strategy is involved, and the reactionary abilities of your opponents are extremely limited. These pvp mechanics do not attract skilled, competitive gamers, they are the things that make them shy away. Apparently, skill == the ability to click quickly. ^ this post doesn't get removed? O_o.... He got bonus points for accuracy. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Nex apparatu5
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
364
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Posted - 2012.10.17 01:23:00 -
[82] - Quote
Hint: End-game PVP takes place on jabber and skype, not in eve. |
Imawuss
The Scope Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.10.17 02:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:CCP says they want to grow EVE pvp into some kind of e-sport, but that will never happen for the following reasons:
1. EVE pvp is a joke amongst competitive pvpers. It is viewed as a game that requires very little skill and has an extremely low skill ceiling. In EVE, you don't beat your opponents because you were a more skilled player, you beat them because you were fortunate enough to choose correct modules and were in the right ship and knew how to operate it, which also isn't something terribly difficult. When compared to the skills of pro players in other competitive e-sport games like starcraft2, you can see a enormous margin of what is required of the player. There is no need for tactical use of terrain, nor a need for high coordination, aiming or high actions per minute, nor micromanage, very little strategy is involved, and the reactionary abilities of your opponents are extremely limited. These pvp mechanics do not attract skilled, competitive gamers, they are the things that make them shy away.
Yes EVE is known for being a very simple, new player freindly, easy to pick up game. EVE combat is very simple too, you just press orbit and F1 right?
On another note E-sports (really a dumb name) are only watched by fans of the game being played. I honestly think group combat in EVE looks great and is extremely enertaining to watch. Heres one i recently found that pretty good though it does get a slightly stale at the end but, this is EVE **** for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glVKqPhAqc0 |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.10.17 05:25:00 -
[84] - Quote
I agree with OP. Admittedly, I can't stand SC tournaments and such (gets boring to watch very quickly for me), but the point stays nevertheless.
Though I'm not sure if "spending 10k on new devs" can solve anyting even closely, but oh well. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
68
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Posted - 2012.10.17 05:32:00 -
[85] - Quote
Imawuss wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:CCP says they want to grow EVE pvp into some kind of e-sport, but that will never happen for the following reasons:
1. EVE pvp is a joke amongst competitive pvpers. It is viewed as a game that requires very little skill and has an extremely low skill ceiling. In EVE, you don't beat your opponents because you were a more skilled player, you beat them because you were fortunate enough to choose correct modules and were in the right ship and knew how to operate it, which also isn't something terribly difficult. When compared to the skills of pro players in other competitive e-sport games like starcraft2, you can see a enormous margin of what is required of the player. There is no need for tactical use of terrain, nor a need for high coordination, aiming or high actions per minute, nor micromanage, very little strategy is involved, and the reactionary abilities of your opponents are extremely limited. These pvp mechanics do not attract skilled, competitive gamers, they are the things that make them shy away.
On another note E-sports (really a dumb name) are only watched by fans of the game being played. I honestly think group combat in EVE looks great and is extremely enertaining to watch.
not true, especially in Korea. Face it, when you compare the skill requirements of EVE to other competitive games, even WoW arena seems to take more skill. I know some of you think you are badass pvpers in this game, but to other gamers, you are just a joke. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
38
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Posted - 2012.10.17 06:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:CCP says they want to grow EVE pvp into some kind of e-sport, but that will never happen for the following reasons:
There is no need for tactical use of terrain, nor a need for high coordination, aiming or high actions per minute, nor micromanage, very little strategy is involved, and the reactionary abilities of your opponents are extremely limited. These pvp mechanics do not attract skilled, competitive gamers, they are the things that make them shy away.
There is a need for tactical use of space. Manual piloting, setting the right orbit, maintaining proper speed, getting a good warp in, keeping in range of your logis. Sure this isn't a hide your body behind a rock to avoid rpg fire game, but there is no terrain in most pvp engagements in eve. If anything that increases the skill since you cannot just hide when doodoo hits hte fanbelt. Another example of tactical use of space would be deep safe spots. yet another would be grid manipulation.
Coordination, needed in eve. It's needed in any game that has you interacting with your teammates to win, not even sure what you were talking about on that one.
There is enough clicks per minute in eve. The lack of aiming does, imo lower the skill level, but not greatly. Aiming at a spaceship wouldn't be that hard anyways aside from fast moving frigs.
There are many popular "e-sport" games that dont' require micro-management, maybe not your beloved starcraft, but I assure you there are.
The strategy in eve begins before you even undock, it also never ends until you log out, no clue what your talking about on that point. I would elaborate on this, but the topic of strategy in eve is quite lengthy and should be fairly obvious even to a player new to the game.
Your opponent can react in many different ways to whatever your doing. From the minute you warp in on someone he is reacting in some way. Sure the reactionary abilities of someone that's alone gettting jumped by 10 players is limited, but such is the strategic nature of the game (which you claim doens't exist). It's not strategically sound to put yourself in a position to be attacked by a force that you cannot defeat.
I think the biggest barrier eve would face to become an "e-sport" would be the fact that alot of "e-sports" fans think like the OP. I"m not trying to cut you down on that one OP, but in all honesty, the fans of these "e-sports" have expectations of what a competitive game should be, largely based on the games which they are fans of.
In regards to the issue of time investment, the character bazaar prety much solves that. This would not be much different from league of legends (a popular "e-sports" title) where if you want to use the powerful heroes you have to either spend RL cash, or grind for them (which takes time).
"There has never been a successful e-sport with a knowledge-based game for a reason"
There is a fair bit of knowledge required to play DOTA competitively.
In regard to the entertainment value, I do agree mostly that eve isn't that fun to watch. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
5111
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Posted - 2012.10.17 06:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
I'm only going to comment the "not entertaining to watch" - easily solved with "don't watch" - HOWEVER - Entertainment, I just have to say: Impoc, AT3.
/c
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
841
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Posted - 2012.10.17 07:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
I played Magic competitively back in the day, and I have yet to discover what this skill-thing in games is.
Situational awareness? Sure. Understanding the mechanics of the game? Sure. Have a strategy and able to adapt? Sure.
Where is this skill-thing again? I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Conrad Makbure
Division One Security
30
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Posted - 2012.10.17 07:08:00 -
[89] - Quote
The core of EVE pvp is your skill queue, how it's setup and how much ISK you have to burn on ships. I agree with the OP, it's not really that engaging to watch or something that has a high skill ceiling. Then you have the blob fleets, no formation, barely any structure, just an individual yelling primary and secondary in TS.
Is there any real strategy to EVE pvp? Is there.. |
D4mane
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.10.17 07:25:00 -
[90] - Quote
Chribba wrote:I'm only going to comment the "not entertaining to watch" - easily solved with "don't watch" - HOWEVER - Entertainment, I just have to say: Impoc, AT3.
/c
O yes, I remember this. That was entertaining. Thank you Tyrrax Thorrk. |
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