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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
101
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Posted - 2012.10.19 17:03:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:And a smart high skilled tournement player would see that this person can ony fly minny BC and then face **** him when they played each other because he could fit a counter. It doesn't even have to be 125 million SP. It could be 60 million and that takes 3 years to train to. Really? You can look at a character and determine what ships he can fly at a glance. What about all of the extra alt members allowed on a team, can you look at them in advance and see which ones you will be flying against in the next round? Can you do it far enough in advance to develop tactics based around the right ships to beat them? Did you notice the lower skilled players playing prominent roles on many teams in the previous alliance tournaments? Did you notice the extremely high skill point characters flying assault frigates? Do you have the slightest idea how preperation is done for tournament play, both long term and just before a match? The point of this tournament is not to make the general public think "Wow, this is the level of game play that every player experiences in EVE". They instead they think "So this is what top level, highly skilled pilots can do in a tournament setting. This game might just be interesting." Assuming, of course, they aren't mentally handicapped. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp people. And maybe you never watched a second of Esports in your life because in tournament settings the game is set up to be as equal as possible to allow actual player skill shine, not some random mechanic that says you can now use x-gun because you waited so long.
Alliance tourney, yeah I have no problem with the actual players and the rules of that because it is not about Esport and showcasing the game on a professional Esport level. It's about what alliance can bring the pain to all the other ones that we play against day in day out in a structured PvP setting.
I have played in a few tournaments for FPS and Battletech and I can tell you that EVE will not bring in more players through Esports simply because of the reasons that I have listed in previous posts. If you want me to accept EVE on a sport level then it has to be equalized, if not then it is biased, and that is the way a lot of pro players feel. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
2343
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Posted - 2012.10.19 17:05:00 -
[92] - Quote
I would like to point out that we just threw in 275 PLEX as additional prizes as outlined in this devblog here.
It is good to see player feedback on this matter and surely we all can learn something as this tournament is our first cash prize tournament in EVE Online, but one thing should be clear: we are not trying to rip off anyone and especially not our players. We conduct this tournament to give our players an exciting new opportunity.
I also would like to remind you to keep constructive feedback about the New Eden Open in here or here so that our tournament organizers can read all the feedback in central places, thank you! CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1385
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Posted - 2012.10.19 17:21:00 -
[93] - Quote
Good stuff.
Caldari Militia |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
390
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Posted - 2012.10.19 18:26:00 -
[94] - Quote
<------------ Needs new faction tinfoil hat to replace oldone with the receding foil line
CCP Phantom wrote: we are not trying to rip off anyone and especially not our players.
aww but this is EVE & when I'm told I'm not being ripped of or scammed I'd immediately assume it was by someone trying to rip off & scam me
Hope the tourney goes well& while everyone is watching it someone tries steal the trophy turns red & gets Concorded Go to the timber yard and buy some logs. They will also show nothing. |
mkint
919
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Posted - 2012.10.19 19:40:00 -
[95] - Quote
Cross-posting. The new shameless tool for shameless tools to promote crappy blogs read only by someone's mom. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars Initiative Mercenaries
83
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:55:00 -
[96] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:And the costs aren't huge ... a pittance compared to annual expenditures. are you...
are you a wizard
You seem to know an awful lot about CCP's finances. I love players who spout out blanket statements about "costs" and "annual expenditures" when they have absolutely no idea what those figures actually are.
Chribba wrote:As for costs, I have no idea if they are justified or not since I have absolutely no insight in what the time, resources, effort cost CCP and its employees. All I know is that looking back at the AT I'm amazed on how it was held, and the effort people put in, volunteers, CCP'ers and others. This is a proper response. Core Skills - train em up train em up! |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1385
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Posted - 2012.10.19 21:06:00 -
[97] - Quote
Invisusira wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:And the costs aren't huge ... a pittance compared to annual expenditures. are you... are you a wizardYou seem to know an awful lot about CCP's finances. I love players who spout out blanket statements about "costs" and "annual expenditures" when they have absolutely no idea what those figures actually are. I believe their 2010 revenue was reported at $56M, according to a public report they have to submit to Icelandic government.
Caldari Militia |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
850
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Posted - 2012.10.20 11:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Thx for sharing, always good to see there are more space ship lovers somewhere, even if it's not in Eve. Trailers look nice, I'd like to test this on PC but couldn't find anywhere emulators or pc test version (maybe didn't search very far)
Anyway, this looks very nice.
brb |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2607
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Posted - 2012.10.20 16:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:And a smart high skilled tournement player would see that this person can ony fly minny BC and then face **** him when they played each other because he could fit a counter. It doesn't even have to be 125 million SP. It could be 60 million and that takes 3 years to train to. Really? You can look at a character and determine what ships he can fly at a glance. What about all of the extra alt members allowed on a team, can you look at them in advance and see which ones you will be flying against in the next round? Can you do it far enough in advance to develop tactics based around the right ships to beat them? Did you notice the lower skilled players playing prominent roles on many teams in the previous alliance tournaments? Did you notice the extremely high skill point characters flying assault frigates? Do you have the slightest idea how preperation is done for tournament play, both long term and just before a match? The point of this tournament is not to make the general public think "Wow, this is the level of game play that every player experiences in EVE". They instead they think "So this is what top level, highly skilled pilots can do in a tournament setting. This game might just be interesting." Assuming, of course, they aren't mentally handicapped. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp people. And maybe you never watched a second of Esports in your life because in tournament settings the game is set up to be as equal as possible to allow actual player skill shine, not some random mechanic that says you can now use x-gun because you waited so long. Alliance tourney, yeah I have no problem with the actual players and the rules of that because it is not about Esport and showcasing the game on a professional Esport level. It's about what alliance can bring the pain to all the other ones that we play against day in day out in a structured PvP setting. I have played in a few tournaments for FPS and Battletech and I can tell you that EVE will not bring in more players through Esports simply because of the reasons that I have listed in previous posts. If you want me to accept EVE on a sport level then it has to be equalized, if not then it is biased, and that is the way a lot of pro players feel.
Most games currently participating in Esports are completely balanced by their simplistic nature, and everything devolves to twitch reflex. This is not EVE.
EVE tournaments do have a balancing system, one that allows a tremendous amount of flexibility for the teams involved. Personal skills and experience in game matters. And as always, players will lower total experience points can be as effective in their chosen ship as an extremely high skill point character... they simply lack the broad range of choice.
Believe it or not, many people are not impressed with how many times a player can click per minute. Instead they are interested in the strategy that went into the choices made before the match ever began, and how well executed that strategy is against the incredibly diverse array of opponents they may face. Others prefer to focus on the tactics the team chooses to use once actually on the field and how well they work together.
EVE has never, nor will it ever, try to parrot what other lesser games do. Why would we EVER try to be exactly like everyone else, that would be foolish... and frankly boring. It's strength is that the possibilities are infinite, all that is necessary is to provide general limitations to prevent a tedious match. The first time a person see's a team with moderate skill point characters in underestimated ships trounce a high skill point team with top of the line equipment, they'll get it... and it happens in just about every tournament. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
104
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Posted - 2012.10.20 16:59:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Most games currently participating in Esports are completely balanced by their simplistic nature, and everything devolves to twitch reflex. This is not EVE. This is how I know the debate is over, and I won.
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
151
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Posted - 2012.10.20 17:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Most games currently participating in Esports are completely balanced by their simplistic nature, and everything devolves to twitch reflex. This is not EVE. This is how I know the debate is over, and I won.
Funny that because what I see is some pertinant points being raised and you ignoring them to cry 'WINZORZ!!' beofre the discussion has even taken place.
And for the record since you mentioned the previous AT at least four of the characters that regularly appeared on our alliance tournament team had less than 20 million SP at the time of the tournament. In the context of this tournament I would say that it doesnt matter wether the pilots have 10mil SP or 50mil SP, it matters wether or not they know how to fly their ship well and do whats required of them in the team setup.
To address an earlier point you made about equality, all the teams entering this tournament have to abide by the same set of rules, that is the equalizer. People misunderstanding how the skill system works and thinking its somehow unfair because of that is honestly not CCPs problem. |
Aramatheia
European Nuthouse
56
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Posted - 2012.10.20 18:15:00 -
[102] - Quote
Van Kuzco wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:WilliamMays wrote:The bigger purpose of having the plex entry fee is to weed out "less-than-serious" players. If there were no entry fee at all, there would be a lot of no-show teams, and even more weak teams that would get steamrolled.
if that were true an isk entrance fee would serve the purpose just as well and would be a lot less controversial Wait what? It would be the same exact thing! Why are people thinking that CCP is getting money for each plex taken out of the game. It's money that people have already spent and that CCP already has in its wallet. I doubt corps are paying actual cash for a stack of 20 plex to enter the tournament. The only way CCP may see additional revenue from the entrance fee is if PLEX prices skyrocket and convince more people to purchase them as a direct cause. However, given the daily volume of PLEX, that is quite unlikely.
true poeple bought those plexes for real money but they were intially for game time, a player would buy said plex and turn it into 30 days of thier sub timer, now its aurm, character remodeling and tournament stuff. Nothing at all to do with extending a persons game time. But ppl still buy them for those irrelevant reasons which means the people who want them for gametime have to cough up more and more isk, esp now as the big hyper rich corps will have gobbled up thier 20 plexes each for thier own version of chump change.
Having a raw isk fee would still mean the ingame mega corps can still shell out thier chump change but the plexes that humans bought can carry on providing other humans with game time (or turning thier horrible male avatars into questionable females lol).
Not sure if anyone noticed but a new plex offer has appeared on the login screen now, curious timing? Good for the Real Life rich folks, just as bad for the not so rich in RL and in game. If the plex market starves out some desperate folks might even stop playing and never return, then what? |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
480
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Posted - 2012.10.20 18:17:00 -
[103] - Quote
Why is this thread still going on?
If you don't like the tourney, then don't watch it. Simple as that. |
Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
144
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Posted - 2012.10.20 18:23:00 -
[104] - Quote
IS it poker tournament or PVP alliance tournament? |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
356
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Posted - 2012.10.20 19:07:00 -
[105] - Quote
idk, I was kinda hoping this would become a yearly event. New Eden Open Tournament does sound pretty cool.
I don't really care that it costs a ton of PLEX to enter. Big Alliances have more ISK than they need anyway, so them buying up PLEX and fronting it for entry to a Tournment doesn't raise any issues with me. Neither does CCP not having to provide time for PLEX. I'd say it's a win-win situation.
Obviously, this is a marketing strategy for OWN3D now, but future events can't expect to have similar prizes offered. That doesn't mean they can't continue it as a tradition, with CCP providing prizes in the future. Shirts, EVE memorabilia, other things.. The PLEX cost could come down for future events too, with consideration to the reduction of prize offers neccesary to make it feasible to do on a yearly basis.
5 PLEX to enter the Auction would be reasonable I think, and would open it up to a wider range of players. Starting it off like this, and following it up with less would be fine.
I'm familiar with at least one company that does events quite often throughout the year, offering prizes at each and every one, while increasing community involvement and interest, and increasing awareness of their products and company as a whole. It's an effective strategy. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
437
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Posted - 2012.10.20 19:44:00 -
[106] - Quote
Opertone wrote:IS it poker tournament or PVP alliance tournament? Who cares, someone's gonna get a Royal Flush after being trumped by an Ace up the sleeve. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
144
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Posted - 2012.10.20 22:16:00 -
[107] - Quote
Why do all the children scream "boycott" when something comes they don't like? Is this something colleges are teaching now? A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
105
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Posted - 2012.10.21 03:30:00 -
[108] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:Schalac wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Most games currently participating in Esports are completely balanced by their simplistic nature, and everything devolves to twitch reflex. This is not EVE. This is how I know the debate is over, and I won. Funny that because what I see is some pertinant points being raised and you ignoring them to cry 'WINZORZ!!' beofre the discussion has even taken place. And for the record since you mentioned the previous AT at least four of the characters that regularly appeared on our alliance tournament team had less than 20 million SP at the time of the tournament. In the context of this tournament I would say that it doesnt matter wether the pilots have 10mil SP or 50mil SP, it matters wether or not they know how to fly their ship well and do whats required of them in the team setup. To address an earlier point you made about equality, all the teams entering this tournament have to abide by the same set of rules, that is the equalizer. People misunderstanding how the skill system works and thinking its somehow unfair because of that is honestly not CCPs problem. My fault with the skill system only goes so far as to say that this tournament will not bring in new players for competetive PVP because of the crazy requirments for you to build up a versitile character.
I have not ignored any points, they are just not pertinent to the debate and the quote from Ranger 1 that is above is the reason that I'm done talking to him. It is this elitest atitude,"The game I play is the toughest and most strategic game out there and that is why I play it and all the other games are childish and easy" that makes him worthy of a slap and a snub. |
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