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Risien Drogonne
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 02:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Risien Drogonne wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:
i stand corrected on that one; i forgot about the rigor and GMP changes. i would still like to see a fit that will project decent DPS to decent ranges. with my current EFT-fu, HAMs will get nowhere near a decent range.
This IS still just a medium weapon system. It seems like you expect it to outperform all other medium weapon systems by a factor of 5, and compete solidly with large weapons. You keep using DPS numbers from battleships. Why? for the 100000000th time: i am not saying the tengu SHOULD outperform battleships. the topic is whether or not the HAM tengu will be 'OP' in hisec PvE. i argue it will not. random trolls and idiots like you try to put words in my mouth. i correct them. another day, another post. And I say you're lying. You use battleship numbers repeatedly as the baseline you think is appropriate for the tengu. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
401
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Posted - 2012.10.27 18:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
Risien Drogonne wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Risien Drogonne wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:
i stand corrected on that one; i forgot about the rigor and GMP changes. i would still like to see a fit that will project decent DPS to decent ranges. with my current EFT-fu, HAMs will get nowhere near a decent range.
This IS still just a medium weapon system. It seems like you expect it to outperform all other medium weapon systems by a factor of 5, and compete solidly with large weapons. You keep using DPS numbers from battleships. Why? for the 100000000th time: i am not saying the tengu SHOULD outperform battleships. the topic is whether or not the HAM tengu will be 'OP' in hisec PvE. i argue it will not. random trolls and idiots like you try to put words in my mouth. i correct them. another day, another post. And I say you're lying. You use battleship numbers repeatedly as the baseline you think is appropriate for the tengu. god you're dense.... i use battleship numbers as baseline because that's the numbers the good mission runners put out. if you could run missions in titans, i would use titan numbers. if the tengu cannot compete with the good m ission ships, it's not a good mission ship. show me where i said it should be one.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
730
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Posted - 2012.10.27 20:07:00 -
[63] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Risien Drogonne wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Risien Drogonne wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:
i stand corrected on that one; i forgot about the rigor and GMP changes. i would still like to see a fit that will project decent DPS to decent ranges. with my current EFT-fu, HAMs will get nowhere near a decent range.
This IS still just a medium weapon system. It seems like you expect it to outperform all other medium weapon systems by a factor of 5, and compete solidly with large weapons. You keep using DPS numbers from battleships. Why? for the 100000000th time: i am not saying the tengu SHOULD outperform battleships. the topic is whether or not the HAM tengu will be 'OP' in hisec PvE. i argue it will not. random trolls and idiots like you try to put words in my mouth. i correct them. another day, another post. And I say you're lying. You use battleship numbers repeatedly as the baseline you think is appropriate for the tengu. god you're dense.... i use battleship numbers as baseline because that's the numbers the good mission runners put out. if you could run missions in titans, i would use titan numbers. if the tengu cannot compete with the good m ission ships, it's not a good mission ship. show me where i said it should be one.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Not sure why no one is listening, but the point stands. The Tengu is currently good because it can compete with BSs on range, damage application, and damage. It seems that it will no longer be competitive on all of these factors simultaneously after the missile changes. |
Justin Valentine
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2012.10.27 20:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
In my opinion comparing the Tengu with battleships isn't a bad thing to do, Eve is risk=reward A t2 fitted tengu would be low dps, low tank and not really a suitable level 4 runner, to make it shine you need a 1bil+ fit and t2 rigs, a cnr runs fine/great with t2 only fit and t1 rigs.
So should a 1.5b+ tech 3 ship (note tech 3) be as good a tech 1 battleship 1/3 its price? I think yes.
In the end of it all the Tengu will still be awesome in missions, just. In a different way. Not op just balanced. |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
182
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
As a former Tengu user I will quote someone and say this:
The Tengu was never the best Mission running ship, only the easiest ship to fly.
You try comparing the Tengu to the Machariel, Nightmare, Vargur, Sentry Domi, Paladin, Golem.
Finish missions much slower compared to these ship.
Your HAM tengu fit is laughable to be considered OP, go fly a Machariel and then tell me that such is the case. |
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.10.27 23:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
Justin Valentine wrote:In my opinion comparing the Tengu with battleships isn't a bad thing to do, Eve is risk=reward A t2 fitted tengu would be low dps, low tank and not really a suitable level 4 runner, to make it shine you need a 1bil+ fit and t2 rigs + 500m implants.. A cnr runs fine/great with t2 only fit and t1 rigs.
So should a 2b+ tech 3 ship (note tech 3) be as good a tech 1 battleship 1/3 its price? I think yes.
In the end of it all the Tengu will still be awesome in missions, just. In a different way. Not op just balanced. You could use this logic (balance based on price) to say that the Tengu should be the best at everything there is to do in Eve, since through various subsystem fits it can make a stab at nearly every kind of task. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
160
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Posted - 2012.10.28 00:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:[Keep fighting the good fight.
Not sure why no one is listening, but the point stands. The Tengu is currently good because it can compete with BSs on range, damage application, and damage. It seems that it will no longer be competitive on all of these factors simultaneously after the missile changes.
From what I have gathered it was never supposed to however, or am I wrong there? As far as I know they are planning (sadly) on further nerfing T3's later down the road as well (I was rather hoping they would bring some of the others up a bit). So is this one of those circular arguments? I think most people realize it currently missions much higher than it is supposed to very effectively. That it will not do as well as it does currently after the patch with HML's in particular is not contested that I see, so what is the point of the comparison? As to HAM's , I have heard arguments both ways, but figure I'll wait until feedback starts to come out from test.
I am a bit confused by the point trying to be made at this stage is why I ask. It started on weather HAM Tengu would be OP, and somehow degenerated into HML's and out performing BS's, and troll calling every second post. |
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