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Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
41
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Posted - 2012.10.19 06:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please see the picture Widow with thermal vision Black Ops Thermal Vision - Native option or a new module which can be fit on black ops battleships to see the heat emissions from surrounding ships in space.
- You can actually see the heat emitted even by cloaked ships but you cannot target lock them. (you can only say to a inty to go there, no in the other way, NO! that way! NO NO! Direction Planet V! FFFUUU)
- Black ops ships can only switch to thermal vision when they are uncloaked.
- If the enemy cloaked ship doesn't move is harder to see it
- put some sound like in this video when you switch vision http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiM9dy-UI9E |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
998
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Posted - 2012.10.19 06:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Congrats... now a dual boxing Widow-Interceptor can effectively neutralize bombing runs and find that cloaky Cov-ops/Blockade Runner/Recon with ease. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
41
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Posted - 2012.10.19 06:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
which guy is crazy enough to decloak in a blackops battleship to engage 8 bombers? |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc. State Section 9
40
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Posted - 2012.10.19 07:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I wasn't even aware that people flew black-ops. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
998
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Posted - 2012.10.19 07:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bender 01000010 wrote:which guy is crazy enough to decloak in a blackops battleship to look with thermal vision for 8 bombers? The guy sitting in a fleet of several hundred people who's job it is to keep an eye out for bombers setting up a run (because bombing runs take time and require that they all get within 30 to 40kms of the target fleet). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
41
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Posted - 2012.10.19 08:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Bender 01000010 wrote:which guy is crazy enough to decloak in a blackops battleship to look with thermal vision for 8 bombers? The guy sitting in a fleet of several hundred people who's job it is to keep an eye out for bombers setting up a run (because bombing runs take time and require that they all get within 30 to 40kms of the target fleet).
Situation 1: Staying far away from battle, uncloaked.
You, as a black ops ship who is watching the field from the distance, cannot see the bombers cloaked if they are too close to your fleet members or friendlies.
Well in that case you will see a thermal soup and you will not understand a thing. Also the lag or the time dilatation will make your chances to kill a bomber almost null..
Also, if you are providing intel about your visual of a bomber, you will expect some really hard work and coordination between fast ships and your as black ops ship commander, because it will be hard to manage the coordinates of the enemy cloaked ships.
Situation 2: If you are close to your friendly ships and you are uncloaked, providing info about enemy cloakies.
You will be primary so fast than you will play more before you die, just because there is time dilatation. Also you will manage to kill some bombers because you are a fast talker and you have some very pro inties who can actually fly their ships and listen to your commands.
but Black Ops Battleship costs 1 bil and 1 bombers costs under 100 mil.
So again, please come back with another argument :D (i enjoy our conversation). |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
44
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Posted - 2012.10.19 09:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:I wasn't even aware that people flew black-ops. That's why they are called Black Ops |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
44
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Posted - 2012.10.19 09:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
What if:
- you make local chat beacons (which authenticate, detect and show every player in - LOCAL chat - of the current solar system) to be an upgrade which can be purchased and can be anchored in your newly conquered solar systems
- you need to place more than one of this local chat beacons in a solar systems, in order to have a good coverage so you can detect and authenticate automatically any player in that solar systems. This have some flaws because there will be blind spots where you cannot be detected thus you can "disappear from local chat" as you left the solar system.
- you could scan with your covert ops frigate for some blind spots in a solar system, where you can warp in that area and disappear from local, because the local subspace beacon don't have coverage in certain areas (like behind planets, certain space clouds, etc).
- Black Ops ship will have the native ability to see the coverage of the local chat beacons on map and be able to warp to blind spots in order to disappear from local chat for some serious guerrilla action.
Later Edit:
Nikk Narrel wrote:The few months I spent in a wormhole made it plain to me that Local Chat is not the limit to how different that part of the game is.
The OP's idea may be workable, but I need clarification on details.
How does a covops or other scanning pilot locate the safe spots you described?
hmm.. first you scan it and see where is no coverage from the local chat beacons; then,let's say you send some kind of probe, launched from your probe launcher, you position it where is the blind spot, and you warp at the probe..there i fixed it.
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Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
4
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Posted - 2012.10.19 15:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Initially, I like this.
I hate the "AFK cloakers ruin the game" threads, but this seems like a realistic way to combat cloakers in engagements. (and I use "combat" in a good way. I don't think cloakers are a problem, but there is not counter to cloaking which seems reasonable to change)
I think you could get away with letting them see thermals while being cloaked if the range is on the order of 50km. Especially if you make it a module that can activate while cloaked (but only covert ops cloaked) but drops speed to 0.
It'd be extremely difficult to direct inteceptors to uncloak said ships, but very easy to provide intel for your blob to scatter when stealth bombers show up on the scene.
It at least deserves more consideration. +1 |
Astroniomix
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
279
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Posted - 2012.10.19 15:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jin alPatar wrote: there is not counter to cloaking which seems reasonable to change
There is no "counter" to cloaking (until they decloak) because there is no "counter" to local. |
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Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
47
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Posted - 2012.10.25 08:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
bump |
Naomi Zirud
Null Sec PvP and Mining Academy
3
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Posted - 2012.10.25 09:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
I roll stealth bomber and I'm not all for this idea. Its seems good but the point of stealth bombers is to attack without your position being revealed until you are steady on the target. Sure you won't be able to lock on to said target but like all new things, there will be that said group of players finding a way to exploit it in a very unprofessional way. Its bad enough that I have to de-cloak before attacking and re-cloak when no ships are targeting me. I'm all for the Idea to be tested and balanced but I have very mix feelings about the outcome of it.
Also, what of the players coming through gates, wouldn't this effect them more. There are set spawn locations around a gate. It would make it easier to gate camp and get those foolish enough to roam in a system without back up. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
348
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Posted - 2012.10.25 09:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
As a player who has had to slowboat cloak through bubbles at a gatecamp to get items out of 0.0, I would have to say that this would be an 'i Win' button for the bubble gate campers.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
0
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Posted - 2012.10.25 18:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why would you need to be able to lock things while in Thermal Mode? As far as I can tell this new Module would be an Intel Gathering Device. You could see what Ships there are cloaked on the grid (or in a set radius.. whichever works best). I don't see the need to be able to lock things also. Going to WH Space though... well... I like the idea initially because it allows you to gather more thorough intel, but I fear it would disrupt what WH Space can do over other spaces: the ability to remain truly 100% undetected. However, this in turn would be offset by cost and being uncloaked to use the Module, leaving yourself vulnerable and visible. Not like everyone will be caring around a 1+ Billion ISK Ship that is very Skill Intensive while putting it at risk to run a Thermal Scan. So I think it could work, but should tread carefully.
+0.5 -Bl+¦d
Wormholes are the best Space.. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1747
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 19:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Give it a cov ops cloak.
Allow thermal vision while cloaked.
Allow targeting cloaked ships (doesn't decloak)...
Allow firing on targeted cloaked ships (decloaks on hit). Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
644
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Give it a cov ops cloak.
Allow thermal vision while cloaked.
Allow targeting cloaked ships (doesn't decloak)...
Allow firing on targeted cloaked ships (decloaks on hit). Lord of the Cloaks...
I like this version Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.10.26 01:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Give it a cov ops cloak.
Allow thermal vision while cloaked.
Allow targeting cloaked ships (doesn't decloak)...
Allow firing on targeted cloaked ships (decloaks on hit).
Why am I envisioning Lord of the Rings, when Frodo slips on the ring?
EDIT: Also, OP, you might want to add that ability to a module that rarely gets used in the game (such as a reinforced bulkhead, but something that ties in with the concept) |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
231
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Posted - 2012.10.26 03:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
This is a bad idea. How about instead we make local an opt-in system, where you only show up in local if you send a message?
Works nicely in wormholes, why not do it in k-space as well? |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1749
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 04:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Give it a cov ops cloak.
Allow thermal vision while cloaked.
Allow targeting cloaked ships (doesn't decloak)...
Allow firing on targeted cloaked ships (decloaks on hit). Lord of the Cloaks... I like this version
And so the Lord Sauron forged 5 great cloaks to bind the kingdom of spaceboats....
1 Cloak to scout & bomb them.
1 Cloak to web, tackle, ecm and neut them.
1 Cloak to move stuff for them.
1 Cloak to avoid bubbles placed by them.
And 1 Cloak to find and rule them all
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
336
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 05:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
I love the idea, it would add some needed player ability to the whole decloaking stuff. Also I am for having the ability to counter combat cloakers. Thermal signatures should be all inclusive though, any ship in the area gives off thermal heat, the bigger the ship, the larger the heat bloom. This means that smart cloaking pilots would hide near large ships to mask their heat signature.
Gate activations should have massive heat pulses that blinds thermals briefly. Module activation on nearby ships and movement also gives off heat as well. Also I would say that the effects diminish over distance so a far off cloaker just running basic intel would be invisible. Activation of MWD's should also provide a heat pulse that blinds sensors briefly, don't want to go too far in nerfing the mwd+cloak trick, any intercepting ship would blind the sensors being used to find the ship.
Make it a passive ability on black ops I like that it needs to be uncloaked to function, that shouldn't change. It could very well be something that pushes more black ops into fleets, and that is badly needed. (Also fix the resists and tankability on those things) MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
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Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
9
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Posted - 2012.10.26 06:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Jin alPatar wrote: there is not counter to cloaking which seems reasonable to change
There is no "counter" to cloaking (until they decloak) because there is no "counter" to local.
That has more to do with AFK cloaking. This would only affect on-grid cloaking.
Hell, let's make it that generic. Black ops can tell when there are cloaked ships on grid. No differentiation between friend or foe.
I like it because it adds complexity without breaking anything. Complexity = fun way of using a mechanic. |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
50
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 07:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:I love the idea, it would add some needed player ability to the whole decloaking stuff. Also I am for having the ability to counter combat cloakers. Thermal signatures should be all inclusive though, any ship in the area gives off thermal heat, the bigger the ship, the larger the heat bloom. This means that smart cloaking pilots would hide near large ships to mask their heat signature.
Gate activations should have massive heat pulses that blinds thermals briefly. Module activation on nearby ships and movement also gives off heat as well. Also I would say that the effects diminish over distance so a far off cloaker just running basic intel would be invisible. Activation of MWD's should also provide a heat pulse that blinds sensors briefly, don't want to go too far in nerfing the mwd+cloak trick, any intercepting ship would blind the sensors being used to find the ship.
Make it a passive ability on black ops I like that it needs to be uncloaked to function, that shouldn't change. It could very well be something that pushes more black ops into fleets, and that is badly needed. (Also fix the resists and tankability on those things)
This guy is a genius. He got it.
Also this should be sticky and a blue ribbon named DEV in left-front of the topic. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
338
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 08:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:This guy is a genius. He got it. Also this should be sticky and a blue ribbon named DEV in left-front of the topic.
Looks like the monkeys turned out something good for once...
I'll give them an extra treat. MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
4
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 09:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
a thermal camera i dont think would be good but a probe with a 500km detection radius might work,
would work like this
drop probe 1-2sec cycle signature returns - broadcast to lock it others or you lock it it decloaks it dies or cyno is lit and you die
simple enough and uses mods that are in game already with some new ones |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
338
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 05:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:a thermal camera i dont think would be good but a probe with a 500km detection radius might work,
would work like this
drop probe 1-2sec cycle signature returns - broadcast to lock it others or you lock it it decloaks it dies or cyno is lit and you die
simple enough and uses mods that are in game already with some new ones
Absolutely no player skill goes into finding the cloaked ships, it's just: Drop probe -> Scan -> Lock -> Kill.
I like that there needs to be player skill involved with the thermal vision. Actively looking for changes and potential enemies using your own personal skills needs to trump static cause->effect mentalities like yours (of course this is solely my opinion). Eve is hard because it involves the use of time management under pressure, forethought, understanding of complicated mechanics interacting with each other, effects of potential enemy actions effecting ship performance, and much more. There should be less point + click = result and more active involvement in game mechanic interactions. If you look at mining it is exactly this, push button get ore after so many seconds, [sarcasm] and everybody knows that all eve players like to mine for the pure enjoyment of mining and nothing else. [/sarcasm]
As for the OP, I would like to suggest that this ability retain its restrictions but be migrated to the Covops Frigate, since that is their niche. Black Ops is a completely different fish to fry and that can be saved for a different conversation.
Also I would like to see a modification to my earlier post; the basic heat signature would be based on the ships capacitor reserve, the more cap you have the brighter you show up. Also cloaking should have the option to drain your cap, basically forcing your ship to run in silent mode to avoid detection. As you use cap to activate modules your signature becomes brighter and brighter, the cap you use contributes to your heat bloom until that modules cycle is complete.
Anyway there is free bump for you, I hope that your campaign continues, Black Ops need help, a lot of help. MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
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