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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kinroi Alari
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno
22
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Posted - 2012.10.19 19:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hmm... If I block the top 100, Jita might seem quiet -- Nice! |
Cyprus Black
Perkone
369
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Do you mean the scam that involves "doubling" your isk, or people who are selling isk for cash? I haven't seen a single one of the latter, and I have a jump clone stationed in jita which I jump to quite often. Oh, most of us know the difference between ingame scamming and actual RMT businesses who are selling ISK for money. I won't name the offender, but they masquerade as an EvE gambling website (no not the Texas Hold-em guys). These RMT guys are experimenting with a new form of ISK acquisition rather than botting or account theft.
They are CONSTANTLY spamming in Jita and several GMs have recommended we flag them as ISK spammers.
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Do not ban spammers, simply "cloak-gag" them so they don't know they got gagged... and neither will we. ... Profit.
In-case someone realizes they got gagged unfairly, it is easily noticeable and correctable. This is actually what happens now with ingame spammers when enough players flag them. They're gagged without their realization until a GM comes along to look at it. Unfortunately that GM coming along is rare and often the gag expires with no action against the spammers. Too busy playing The Secret World. EvE has gone stale and boring. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1741
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
I approve of this service announcement Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1886
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Connaght Badasaz wrote:79k is the reason. Even if a tenth of them were full on bots, the company can hardly be bothered to dump that many subs.
That is the core of the bots in mmo's. The company gets money. It won't be gotten rid of.
Good work, and keep trucking, maybe I will be proven incorrect.
I fail to see how these bots put any actual money into CCP, because they obviously have the ISK for paying via PLEX ... PLEX aren't just created out of thin air. That statement is like saying Nordstrom doesn't make any money from gift card purchases. Yes. We both know that, but if you read correctly you can see that i've wrote that the bots don't put any actual money into CCP.
Yes, somebody else paid for these PLEX, but it wasn't the bots. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
503
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
Fascinating stuff, Chribba - well done o7 ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department we are hiring!. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
5207
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Great analysis.
Is the raw data made available?
What kind of statistical method did you use in your classification of bot vs non-bot.. is it just some threshold of repetitiveness? If so what is that threshold?
The fact that Samantha stops dead at around 17th May may be a sign that she got banned. I would like to see an analysis of how many people you have classified as botters have subsequently stopped posting (presumably because they got banned too). It would be a good measure of how effective CCP's anti-botting campaign is at targeting chat bots! The raw data isn't really available in pure form, you can always follow and do similar lookups over at http://evelocal.com/ But this time around I did not do any data dump like before, simply because all the data is already on eve-live.
Method is more me manually looking at how much the pilot repeat themselves, are there any patterns in their posting, like posting timers of posting one message, then 2s post another, wait 45s post, then 2s again etc as well as how they post over timer, like constantly posting for 9 hours all under 90 seconds seems highly unlikely that they not once needed to afk for more than 90 seconds, things like that. So wouldn't really hold as 'proof' but highly unlikely that a pilot at keyboard would manage to do that. Plus ofc those that spam contracts like "[WTB Something] Grab it now" only to suddenly only be posting " Grab it now" a few times, doesn't appear to be "human".
While Samantha could very well have been banned there you should know that alot use trials and just spam away, so it's really had to track, but ofc it could be possible to see patterns there too, but you can't be sure if banned or just stopped to use another alt or stopped completely.
Sarah Schneider wrote:Well done Mr. Chribba. /bows/
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
699
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
I wonder if CCP Sreegs will man up and post here thanking Chribba for something he should have been doing. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
5207
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Reticle wrote:Solstice Project wrote:I believe you worded this wrong, or are you implying he's RMTing ? I think all the Concordokkens have shaken your brain. He's referring to all the website traffic and ad revenue. Though I personally doubt it keeps him from having to work. I have *no* idea about his sites, tbh ... I know that he got plenty, but i've never cared of actually looking. So my bad, i guess. I apologize. :) So far EVE is a hobby, traffic does help me host things but doesn't really make me rich, a normal month overall it costs more to run than I earn. But as long as I find it fun it doesn't matter to me
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Do not ban spammers, simply "cloak-gag" them so they don't know they got gagged... and neither will we. ... Profit.
In-case someone realizes they got gagged unfairly, it is easily noticeable and correctable. This is EXACTLY how I would like to see it, stealth gag, they won't know, they will be paying, we will have less spam. I can def see this be a very good solution.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Nice work....
So, what is an appropriate punishment for bots spamming?
-- I think a server side ban on their local spam, without actually informing them, would be somewhat poetic justice... but a simple x-day ban or something is probably easier to implement and more effective in both in terms of time and EvE cpu usage..
Exactly, silently shun them without them knowing.
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Mai Khumm
Omen Industries -Entropy-
296
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nice work there Chribba...!
And I completely agree that nothing has been done about the spam bot issue. CCP can do something about it, yet to see it though...
ESP with their crackdown on botting, you'd suspect that they'd start in good old Jita...
Until then, I'll let my contracts collect dust and minimize local whenever I traverse there... Since EVE will be pay to win very soon. --> 65 Mil SP subcap pilot/45 Mil SP Caldari-Indy Cap pilot looking for Powerbloc Coalition... |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
5208
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
Robert Warner wrote:Shizuken wrote:Wow Chribba, nice work. I have a feeling this might cause some red faces over in Iceland... It would if it weren't common knowledge across the entire span of the community. However, I must commend you on our work, Chribba. The data you've collated here could be used to identify botters and with a little work identify their IP addresses. *ahem* if CCP would like to help solve the problem there's plenty of collected in here. I, like you, would very much like to see this issue of bot scamming solved. I know a number of people will say "ignore local" etc, but that isn't the point, is it? The major trading hubs should be a place that people can come together and socialise as a community. EvE fails miserably in this regard due to its stubborn refusal to deal with the bots that have become endemic in these sectors. Thanks again for all the work you do for the community, Chribba. I hope the powers that be will, upon reading your data, recognise that this is a significant detriment to players' enjoyment of the game and take steps accordingly. Yeah ignoring local, minimizing, it's not really solving the issues, and will make it spread. I find local very nice many times and would think that so many more could do that in all kind of hubs as well. Thank you for your comments!
Plus, this is only my summary of Jita, with my own tools, imagine what CCP can do sitting on EVERYTHING, they could do much better analyses than I did, crosschecking, IPs, accounts, you name it.
Cyprus Black wrote:They are CONSTANTLY spamming in Jita and several GMs have recommended we flag them as ISK spammers. Do you have any link/post on GMs telling we should ISK flag them? Because I've only ever used the "report bot" function. I'd totally go ISK spammer report if reporting spambots that way is the way to go.
/c
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Gaia Ma'chello
V.I.C.E.
30
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Connaght Badasaz wrote:79k is the reason. Even if a tenth of them were full on bots, the company can hardly be bothered to dump that many subs.
That is the core of the bots in mmo's. The company gets money. It won't be gotten rid of.
Good work, and keep trucking, maybe I will be proven incorrect.
This question has been asked of CCP before:
"Why, as a company, does CCP want to eliminate the accounts of those who use bots when doing so reduces CCP's income?
I ask because in many of the posts here it is stated that CCP likes the bots because they pay for a subscription (indirectly, via PLEX), and hence their elimination would hurt CCP's bottom line. "
With this reply:
CCP Sreegs wrote:The first question is one I haven't FULLY researched but the general consensus is that removing bots actually increases CCP's income because we have more happy customers. The idea that we would want people to bot for $15 is a false one, though I could see why some people would leap to that conclusion. |
Bagehi
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
120
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kinroi Alari wrote:Hmm... If I block the top 100, Jita might seem quiet -- Nice!
This was my first thought. This ends up being like a spam block list. Thanks Chribba!
Connaght Badasaz wrote:79k is the reason. Even if a tenth of them were full on bots, the company can hardly be bothered to dump that many subs.
That is the core of the bots in mmo's. The company gets money. It won't be gotten rid of.
Good work, and keep trucking, maybe I will be proven incorrect.
79k? Are you lumping the entirety of players who have said something in local in Jita over the last 6 months in with the couple dozen who Chribba is calling out for using macros to the detriment of the game? Because, if so, that would be a straw man argument.
ISD TYPE40 wrote:I am seriously impressed with the amount of work you put in there Chribba. Impressed but not in the least bit surprised I think I'll sit and take a good long look through this, thank you for your continued efforts my good man
I'm continually baffled why spam can get temp bans elsewhere in Eve, but Jita has seemingly been exempted because it has passed some threshold into "too dirty to clean." Hopefully more is done than taking a look at the statistics Chribba put together. |
Conrad Makbure
Division One Security
30
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
I think it's bullshit that Jita has the most market volume of all the trade hubs. Maybe they should just link the 4 big hubs or something similar to the effect. I don't want to travel out there for something; Dodixie and the other three should have about the same stuff! |
highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
384
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
The real test is, Will the CCP devs do anything?
No, these people pay their subscription, they wont ban them.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |
Sarmea Moon
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
51
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Reticle wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Taranius De Consolville wrote:Muffini wrote:too much time on your hands chief ofc he does, doesnt need to work wi9th the amount of money he makes off eve I believe you worded this wrong, or are you implying he's RMTing ? I think all the Concordokkens have shaken your brain. He's referring to all the website traffic and ad revenue. Though I personally doubt it keeps him from having to work.
I don't care if it makes him personally rich, and the ads bought him a Rolls with a garage bigger than my house. I use the heck outta his 3rd party sites, and they've been consistently around, unlike many other out of game helpful sites.
/request if you want to, you can host something like the now defunct EvEMining Buddy, and I'd be willing to pay a sub:D /endrequest The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse [lady of commercial virtue]. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.- James Nicoll |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
699
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Posted - 2012.10.19 20:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Connaght Badasaz wrote:79k is the reason. Even if a tenth of them were full on bots, the company can hardly be bothered to dump that many subs.
That is the core of the bots in mmo's. The company gets money. It won't be gotten rid of.
Good work, and keep trucking, maybe I will be proven incorrect.
Not banning bots because they pay subscription fees is a very short-sighted business strategy. CCP actually tends to err more on the other side, looking too far ahead, ignoring the short-term.
I think CCP mostly ignored bots over the years, because they simply underestimated their impact on the economy. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Connaght Badasaz
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
53
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Posted - 2012.10.19 21:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:Kinroi Alari wrote:Hmm... If I block the top 100, Jita might seem quiet -- Nice! This was my first thought. This ends up being like a spam block list. Thanks Chribba! Connaght Badasaz wrote:79k is the reason. Even if a tenth of them were full on bots, the company can hardly be bothered to dump that many subs.
That is the core of the bots in mmo's. The company gets money. It won't be gotten rid of.
Good work, and keep trucking, maybe I will be proven incorrect.
79k? Are you lumping the entirety of players who have said something in local in Jita over the last 6 months in with the couple dozen who Chribba is calling out for using macros to the detriment of the game? Because, if so, that would be a straw man argument. ISD TYPE40 wrote:I am seriously impressed with the amount of work you put in there Chribba. Impressed but not in the least bit surprised I think I'll sit and take a good long look through this, thank you for your continued efforts my good man I'm continually baffled why spam can get temp bans elsewhere in Eve, but Jita has seemingly been exempted because it has passed some threshold into "too dirty to clean." Hopefully more is done than taking a look at the statistics Chribba put together.
Even if a tenth of them were full on bots
You may have missed that part
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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1896
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Posted - 2012.10.19 21:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:I think it's bullshit that Jita has the most market volume of all the trade hubs. Maybe they should just link the 4 big hubs or something similar to the effect. I don't want to travel out there for something; Dodixie and the other three should have about the same stuff! You must have brain damage or something. If you don't want to go there, then just don't go there ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
killorbekilled TBE
Quantum Link Company Tribal Band
118
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Posted - 2012.10.19 21:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
i always had this feeling there was scams and bots in jita
and with chribba's new data, my theory is confirmed TrollorbeTrolled |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
809
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Posted - 2012.10.19 22:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
some of those words are me, I said lol a few times in jita. |
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Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
102
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Posted - 2012.10.19 22:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
There has never been a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
One of the nice things about Dodixie and Amarr is (while Amarr does have some bots) there is more social activity. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
411
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Posted - 2012.10.19 22:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Wow Chribba, nice work. I have a feeling this might cause some red faces over in Iceland... Who are unlikely to do much.
A sub is a sub.
WARNING: The current poster is erratic, prone to error and generally blissfully unaware due to the taking of many hard drugs over the course of many years - most of them legal. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
735
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Posted - 2012.10.19 23:30:00 -
[53] - Quote
Willow Standford Jita ISK spamer Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Styth spiting
Gunzerkers
68
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Posted - 2012.10.19 23:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
So we know that bots can go for 100+ days and say hundreds of thousands of spam lines before CCP will ban the account. Fantastic. |
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
328
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Posted - 2012.10.19 23:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
IB4 Sreegs "macro is not a bot no way no how /throwhandsupinair" |
Praxis Ginimic
Dark Knight Legion Usurper.
59
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Posted - 2012.10.20 00:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
I've been hanging out in jita lately. Sometimes I click on all the offered contracts and try to spot scams. Most are easy...most are scams. In fact I'm always surprised when I find one that is legit. It make me wish I had the isk to reward the real deal. |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
75
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Posted - 2012.10.20 00:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
One of the reasons I don't like jita, I try to avoid going there and shut my chat box down for duration of visit. |
Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
144
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Posted - 2012.10.20 01:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
thank you Chribba
your input is very important!
eve is not for bots. it kills the gameplay. CCP set bot use to bannable offense. It slowly deteriorates and kills your game universe. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1605
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Posted - 2012.10.20 03:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jita is quite an interesting place, huh. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
411
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Posted - 2012.10.20 03:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:This question has been asked of CCP before: "Why, as a company, does CCP want to eliminate the accounts of those who use bots when doing so reduces CCP's income? I ask because in many of the posts here it is stated that CCP likes the bots because they pay for a subscription (indirectly, via PLEX), and hence their elimination would hurt CCP's bottom line. " With this reply: CCP Sreegs wrote:The first question is one I haven't FULLY researched but the general consensus is that removing bots actually increases CCP's income because we have more happy customers. The idea that we would want people to bot for $15 is a false one, though I could see why some people would leap to that conclusion. The first question actually is not that at all. It would have to be is a macro that repeats a message in Jita once every minute or so a bot, or just a macro. Where's the line and is it bannable?
If so, the real question is why doesn't CCP act with so much overwhelming evidence that has been playing out for years.
Sreegs has never had a Jita local chat actually been free of bots to test this "happy place" hypothesis. Seems like just a random motherhood statement.
The OpEd answer is that CCP would never ban hammer a large percentage of their user base. Too much money to lose over a fairly minor irritant. Yeah, they might slam a few to "make a point" but not many. And not this 79K number being bandied about.
Bottom line, learn to live and love the Jita spam, CCP needs it. WARNING: The current poster is erratic, prone to error and generally blissfully unaware due to the taking of many hard drugs over the course of many years - most of them legal. |
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