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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
450
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:svenska flicka wrote:It should be 12 hours, 12 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing. Fast-forward two years: GÇ£It should be 6 hours, 6 hours to me is fair yet still penalizing.GÇ¥ Once a day is fine. It's just that it should be once a day rather than once just-over-a-day.
Clearly, it's not fine as if it was, we wouldn't see people asking for it to be reduced.
Knocking an hour off the timer would be pointless but to be honest I don't really care about jump cloning for the sake of instant travel, i (and many others) just want to be able to swap clones whenever they want. That wouldn't break anything. They see me trolling, they hating... |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
174
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
The current 24 hours are a real inconvienience to those that are bound to tight shedules due to RL.
We need a skill that lets us reduce the jumping delay by 1 hour per level, perhaps 2 hours depending on the skill multipier. I believe that would be an acceptable compromise. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20. |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nerath Naaris wrote:The current 24 hours are a real inconvienience to those that are bound to tight shedules due to RL.
We need a skill that lets us reduce the jumping delay by 1 hour per level, perhaps 2 hours depending on the skill multipier. I believe that would be an acceptable compromise.
I hate adding a new skill to the game you will end up forcing every body and their mother to train, the skill would be that valuable it would even be something every one trains to level 5.
But yes, I would love for a change to current mechanic. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
174
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I've seen these threads come up lots in the Assembly Hall and Features etc, and the same argument are used on both sides for and against.
The pros say that quicker jump timers would allow people to get closer tot he action when they wanted to. The cons say that people would be travelling less manually and so there would be less opportunity for PvP.
I think even if the pros are right, small gang and solo will get nerfed by that kind of change. I like travelling manually.
The problem is not only travelling. There is a good chance that jump cloning with short cooldowns could become a mechanic to mitigate consequences. Trading in Jita, jump into your pvp clone, roam, get stuck / camped in a station - jump clone out, come again.
If you start lowering the cooldown, another guy will come again in a few months to ask for a lower cooldown again. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10095
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Clearly, it's not fine as if it was, we wouldn't see people asking for it to be reduced. Yeah, the problem is that what people are asking for is not a suitable metric for what is fine and what isn't.
People are asking for built-in bots, no highsec, no nullsec, PvP switches, I-win buttons and all manners of things that would alter things that are just fine as they are. Knocking an hour off the timer would not be pointless because it would make it an actual once-a-day thing rather than the current once-a-bit-more-than-a-day event it is. It's a classic error when designing countdowns.
GǪbut sure, that's building on the assumption that it should be a once-a-day ability, which isn't entirely certain, and again, it wouldn't need to be a full hour to solve that issue GÇö 5 minutes would work just as well. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
1972
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's to ensure that you can't move around (or adjust your clone setup) too easily at too little cost.
The only problem with the timer is that it's a classic timer fence-post error. It should really be 23h (or 23:55).
GǪ or 36h, just to reinforce that it's not intended to be used once a day at the beginning of each play session :)
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
120
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Tippia wrote:It's to ensure that you can't move around (or adjust your clone setup) too easily at too little cost.
The only problem with the timer is that it's a classic timer fence-post error. It should really be 23h (or 23:55). GǪ or 36h, just to reinforce that it's not intended to be used once a day at the beginning of each play session :)
Actually 36h sounds good. Seconded.
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svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Clearly, it's not fine as if it was, we wouldn't see people asking for it to be reduced. Yeah, the problem is that what people are asking for is not a suitable metric for what is fine and what isn't. People are asking for built-in bots, no highsec, no nullsec, PvP switches, I-win buttons and all manners of things that would alter things that are just fine as they are. Knocking an hour off the timer would not be pointless because it would make it an actual once-a-day thing rather than the current once-a-bit-more-than-a-day event it is. It's a classic error when designing countdowns. GǪbut sure, that's building on the assumption that it should be a once-a-day ability, which isn't entirely certain, and again, it wouldn't need to be a full hour to solve that issue GÇö 5 minutes would work just as well.
If it wasn't it should have been 36 hours or longer.
I also have to agree with posters talking about traveling issue. Let us only do that once every 24hours then but let us change clones in the same station with a medical bay more often than that, at least once a day. My issues is not traveling or even wanting that to happen more often, in fact I hate that traveling in EVE has become this easy and fast compared to what it use to be. I just wanna be able to at least switch implants once a day in same station ie you sit in leadership plants and get called to bring a HIC... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
1067
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains.
A couple solutions to this problem would be allowing jumps within clones at the same station with a greatly reduced timer or no timer at all, or allowing unplugging of learning implants without destroying them (and possibly hardwirings with some penalty).
However I just thought of a way this could be exploited in combination with death cloning, but death cloning is already a problem. The solution to this, I propose, would be so that you cannot change your medical clone station more than once every 48 hours. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 12:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains.
Consequences. Yeah. Bad thingy.
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1070
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains. Consequences. Yeah. Bad thingy. The consequences are entirely avoidable as it is, the problem is that everyone chooses to avoid the consequences and this comes at the expense of PVP. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains.
A couple solutions to this problem would be allowing jumps within clones at the same station with a greatly reduced timer or no timer at all, or allowing unplugging of learning implants without destroying them (and possibly hardwirings with some penalty).
However I just thought of a way this could be exploited in combination with death cloning, but death cloning is already a problem. The solution to this, I propose, would be so that you cannot change your medical clone station more than once every 48 hours.
Maybe even just let anyone store implants as much as they want and or replace without destroying them for an ISK sink charge or something and remove that feature from jump clones altogether. Then if you want to jump across the galaxy to a clone with implants you need to have those implants at that hangar or buy them there.
You still lose them if you get podded flying with them so am I crazy to suggest that? Or would that for some reason I cannot see currently be OP??? |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
1
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Posted - 2012.10.25 13:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'm good with 12 hours. |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
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Posted - 2012.10.25 14:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains. Consequences. Yeah. Bad thingy. The consequences are entirely avoidable as it is, the problem is that everyone chooses to avoid the consequences and this comes at the expense of PVP.
You could choose to avoid the consequence by staying in your PvP clone (especially if you are in a pvp alliance like Razor with an active campaign afaik). |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 14:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains. Consequences. Yeah. Bad thingy. The consequences are entirely avoidable as it is, the problem is that everyone chooses to avoid the consequences and this comes at the expense of PVP. You could choose to avoid the consequence by staying in your PvP clone (especially if you are in a pvp alliance like Razor with an active campaign afaik).
PVP clones has implants as well also for different situations depending on what you fly etc. So that argument is mute, thank you. |
Mehashi 'Kho
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
23
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Posted - 2012.10.25 14:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:The consequences are entirely avoidable as it is, the problem is that everyone chooses to avoid the consequences and this comes at the expense of PVP. +1 Happens all the time. Not only the damage mitigating circumstance as you've mentioned, it's also sometimes the case you are simply in the wrong clone for the job, that even if you were willing to use you couldn't because you don't have the PG implant due to being in slaves, or other similar situations.
12 hours or less would be better, so if I have an engagement requiring 1 clone in the late evening on friday, when I log on saturday I could be ready to change clone appropriate to the days targets, instead of having to wait until I have to go to bed to change clone hoping I get it right for sunday. |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 14:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mehashi 'Kho wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:The consequences are entirely avoidable as it is, the problem is that everyone chooses to avoid the consequences and this comes at the expense of PVP. +1 Happens all the time. Not only the damage mitigating circumstance as you've mentioned, it's also sometimes the case you are simply in the wrong clone for the job, that even if you were willing to use you couldn't because you don't have the PG implant due to being in slaves, or other similar situations. 12 hours or less would be better, so if I have an engagement requiring 1 clone in the late evening on friday, when I log on saturday I could be ready to change clone appropriate to the days targets, instead of having to wait until I have to go to bed to change clone hoping I get it right for sunday.
It especially hurts during weekends, no kidding. |
Holy One
239
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Posted - 2012.10.25 14:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Long long long advocated just putting in a rank 12 skill to miitgate clone jumping down to 5-6 hrs tops. |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 14:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
Holy One wrote:Long long long advocated just putting in a rank 12 skill to miitgate clone jumping down to 5-6 hrs tops.
and force every one in the game to train it to level 5.
Again, terrible solution. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
451
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Posted - 2012.10.25 14:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Yeah, going an op on Friday night and then logging on Saturday morning and having to wait all day to get in your real clone sucks! They see me trolling, they hating... |
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Holy One
239
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Posted - 2012.10.25 14:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
svenska flicka wrote:Holy One wrote:Long long long advocated just putting in a rank 12 skill to miitgate clone jumping down to 5-6 hrs tops. and force every one in the game to train it to level 5. Again, terrible solution.
Yeah I am forcing you to make terrible posts as well. I should probably stop. |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 14:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Holy One wrote:svenska flicka wrote:Holy One wrote:Long long long advocated just putting in a rank 12 skill to miitgate clone jumping down to 5-6 hrs tops. and force every one in the game to train it to level 5. Again, terrible solution. Yeah I am forcing you to make terrible posts as well. I should probably stop.
Your idea for solution is terrible, sorry I hurt your feelings. |
March rabbit
R.I.P. Revenge
257
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 15:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains. Consequences. Yeah. Bad thingy. The consequences are entirely avoidable as it is, the problem is that everyone chooses to avoid the consequences and this comes at the expense of PVP. and this is problem CCP NEEDS TO FIX? |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
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Posted - 2012.10.25 15:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
svenska flicka wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well what I know for sure is a lot of us don't us jump clones for their intended purpose, but instead we use them to store different implant sets. Being able to switch between implant sets only once per 24 hours is detrimental to PVP. For example, during a quiet period you and a whole bunch of other people in your alliance jump into ratting clones. My ratting clone has +5 learning implants and 5% damage hardwirings. 10 hours later there's a spontaneous fleet. A large number of people aren't going to be showing up to this fleet because they don't want to risk their blinged out brains. Consequences. Yeah. Bad thingy. The consequences are entirely avoidable as it is, the problem is that everyone chooses to avoid the consequences and this comes at the expense of PVP. You could choose to avoid the consequence by staying in your PvP clone (especially if you are in a pvp alliance like Razor with an active campaign afaik). PVP clones has implants as well also for different situations depending on what you fly etc. So that argument is mute, thank you.
So clone hopping is the solution to mitigate consequences of your clone choice in the first place? Besides that: I doubt that you are unable to do something because you are in a clone with certain implants. Your argument is mute, try again. |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2012.10.25 15:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote: I doubt that you are unable to do something because you are in a clone with certain implants. Your argument is mute, try again.
Learn the game before you argue any further please.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
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Posted - 2012.10.25 15:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
svenska flicka wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote: I doubt that you are unable to do something because you are in a clone with certain implants. Your argument is mute, try again. Learn the game before you argue any further please.
I play since 2007. Please explain your argument on a concrete example. Thanks
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svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2012.10.25 15:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:svenska flicka wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote: I doubt that you are unable to do something because you are in a clone with certain implants. Your argument is mute, try again. Learn the game before you argue any further please. I play since 2007. Please explain your argument on a concrete example. Thanks
I don't have the time to do the much needed power point display with colorful pictures for you, sorry.
Let's just say, this issue we are arguing about will clearly not affect you so don't worry about a thing. |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
109
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 15:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
So the issue at hand is not the instant travelling (which is a bad feature to have regardless) but rather the unwillingness to lose bling bling implants.
So what happened to EVE being all "hardcore" and "don't fly (or rather use) what you cannot afford to lose and yada yada yada?
I really get the feeling that people only want the "anti-carebear" measurements only as long as they themselves aren't affected by it. |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2012.10.25 15:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
svenska flicka wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:svenska flicka wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote: I doubt that you are unable to do something because you are in a clone with certain implants. Your argument is mute, try again. Learn the game before you argue any further please. I play since 2007. Please explain your argument on a concrete example. Thanks I don't have the time to do the much needed power point display with colorful pictures for you, sorry. Let's just say, this issue we are arguing about will clearly not affect you so don't worry about a thing.
That pretty much is the answer I have expected.
Come again with an argument please.
A valid argument looks like this:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:So the issue at hand is not the instant travelling (which is a bad feature to have regardless) but rather the unwillingness to lose bling bling implants.
So what happened to EVE being all "hardcore" and "don't fly (or rather use) what you cannot afford to lose and yada yada yada?
I really get the feeling that people only want the "anti-carebear" measurements only as long as they themselves aren't affected by it.
and I second that. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2556
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 15:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Da'iel Zehn wrote:I'm good with 12 hours. Which is why its 24. |
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