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AtomicWing
It broke itself
1
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Posted - 2012.10.28 17:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, put simply:
When a character is biomassed, the SP on that character goes to a SP pool (assignable) on the account. The idea is that you pay subscription for your account, not the character, so SP is also accumulated on the account. If you buy a char from the character bazaar, you actually buy SP in a box.
This way characters become more flexible, skillspoints can be redistributed (maybe with x times a year per account, or x% is transferred) and the SP gain doesn't get lost (at most transferred within a character to another account). Everybody has useless alts which they would love to biomass for SP, and I think it's a fair del to make it possible.
What do others think? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10166
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Posted - 2012.10.28 17:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
That's just an SP remap mechanic, so no thanks. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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usrevenge
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.10.28 17:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
buy character with 100mil sp biomass that character now your main can have every skill at lvl 5?
no ty. |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
5
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Posted - 2012.10.28 18:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Isn't it against the EULA to buy/sell characters/accounts?
If so, then something that is against the EULA in the first place doesn't make a good counter argument against an idea.
I have another account that I would love to pay for the character transfer if it meant i could recycle the SP. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10166
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Posted - 2012.10.28 18:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Isn't it against the EULA to buy/sell characters/accounts? Accounts, yes. Characters, no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10672
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Posted - 2012.10.28 18:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
So, simply put..... NO.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
288
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Posted - 2012.10.28 18:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
OP,
Did you really just ask for a fair playing field for newer players? In EVE? Come on! The old hands would never give up the advantage. They will argue the advantage doesn't exist, they will then argue the advantage is minimal, etc., but they'll never get along with it.
Oh, and folks who said this is just a remap for ISK? What is the Character Bazaar right now if not that? If I want a Tengu pilot, I can go to the bazaar and legally buy one for ISK. Remap, for ISK. Just under a different name and appearance. Which, funnily enough, equals race change + name change. So, if you honestly look at it, what is character bazaar? Name change + race change + (possibly) gender change + skill remap for ISK (and by relation, $$$). It's already in the game, been here for quite a while. All the OP is asking is to give players better control over the changes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10166
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Posted - 2012.10.28 18:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:OP,
Did you really just ask for a fair playing field for newer players? No, he asked for a massive buff to old players that would completely screw over new ones, and the introduction of the concept of GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ to a game where that concept doesn't apply, done in such a way that it becomes impossible for new players to actually catch up.
SP remapping alone is a horrible idea in every way imaginable, especially since it solves absolutely nothing. This idea adds even more layers of badness on top of that, but the mere fact that it's an SP remapping scheme is enough to completely scuttle it.
Quote:Oh, and folks who said this is just a remap for ISK? What is the Character Bazaar right now if not that? It's not an SP remap scheme, for one. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10672
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Posted - 2012.10.28 18:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:OP, Did you really just ask for a fair playing field for newer players? In EVE? Come on! The old hands would never give up the advantage. They will argue the advantage doesn't exist, they will then argue the advantage is minimal, etc., but they'll never get along with it. Oh, and folks who said this is just a remap for ISK? What is the Character Bazaar right now if not that? If I want a Tengu pilot, I can go to the bazaar and legally buy one for ISK. Remap, for ISK. Just under a different name and appearance. Which, funnily enough, equals race change + name change. So, if you honestly look at it, what is character bazaar? Name change + race change + (possibly) gender change + skill remap for ISK (and by relation, $$$). It's already in the game, been here for quite a while. All the OP is asking is to give players better control over the changes. Well done, for being completely wrong on all points.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
24
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Posted - 2012.10.28 19:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That's just an SP remap mechanic, so no thanks. What is wrong with remapping skills? |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10166
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Posted - 2012.10.28 19:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Tippia wrote:That's just an SP remap mechanic, so no thanks. What is wrong with remapping skills? It removes the point of having skills to begin with. It removes the point of having attributes. It removes attribute implants from the game. It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups. It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character. It removes planning and choice and consequences. It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas. It kills character trading. It massively boosts older characters over new ones. It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
101
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Posted - 2012.10.28 19:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Jame Jarl Retief]impossible for new players to actually catch up.
It has yet to ever be possible to 'catch up'. Until EvE has been out for... 50 years?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10166
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Posted - 2012.10.28 19:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:It has yet to ever be possible to 'catch up'. Until EvE has been out for... 50 years? Right now, it's impossible not to catch up unless you actively avoid it. Once you reach lvl V, you have caught up with everyone forever. On top of that, the way the skill system enforces exponentially smaller bonuses for exponentially more time spent, you can get more bonuses faster by not going for max skill level.
The only thing you can't catch up with is total SP, and as luck would have it, total SP is a meaningless stat (aside from making your clone more expensive). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1073
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Posted - 2012.10.28 19:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Not supporting the idea. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
22
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Posted - 2012.10.28 20:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
this is absolutely the worst idea ever.
All I would do is roll new chars, with a few hundred thousand SP and then biomass them every few hours. I could have all my skills to level 5 within months, all for free.
One might argue for a pay for sp mechanic, but then that breaks the 'pay to win' promise CCP said they would NEVER cross. If they cross that line, that's the day EVE dies. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
1592
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Posted - 2012.10.28 20:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
When people remove themselves from the gene pool in a glorious attempt of winning the Darwin Award, the living should become more intelligent. Right? I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
7
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Posted - 2012.10.28 21:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Blastil wrote:this is absolutely the worst idea ever.
All I would do is roll new chars, with a few hundred thousand SP and then biomass them every few hours. I could have all my skills to level 5 within months, all for free.
One might argue for a pay for sp mechanic, but then that breaks the 'pay to win' promise CCP said they would NEVER cross. If they cross that line, that's the day EVE dies.
Never tried making an alt character on the same account for some time. The reason being was that you could only train one character at a time so I didn't see the point in halting training on one character to start training a second when I could halt the training on the main and replace it with a new skill still on the main. Taking the same amount of time.
Unless that has changed and you can now train more than one character on the same account at the same time, then I fail to see how this will speed up maxing skills out.
The only thing would be that people could buy a second account, start training a character on that account and then after x amount of time, pay to have the character transferred and then recycle. So you have to pay for at least a months subscription then pay for a char transfer on top of that.
You simply paying CCP for an increase in training speed.
EDIT: Nvm, I realize now you are talking about the sp a character starts out with. Although that is an easy fix, the amount of sp - the amount of sp a character starts with get recycled. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
102
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Posted - 2012.10.28 21:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:It has yet to ever be possible to 'catch up'. Until EvE has been out for... 50 years? Right now, it's impossible not to catch up unless you actively avoid it. Once you reach lvl V, you have caught up with everyone forever. On top of that, the way the skill system enforces exponentially smaller bonuses for exponentially more time spent, you can get more bonuses faster by not going for max skill level. The only thing you can't catch up with is total SP, and as luck would have it, total SP is a meaningless stat (aside from making your clone more expensive).
I suppose that is true, yet on the other hand there is still catching up to be done.
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Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
17
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Posted - 2012.10.28 22:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Isn't it against the EULA to buy/sell characters/accounts?
If so, then something that is against the EULA in the first place doesn't make a good counter argument against an idea.
I have another account that I would love to pay for the character transfer if it meant i could recycle the SP.
you can legally buy charaters on the charater bazar in the forums. |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
17
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Posted - 2012.10.28 22:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
how about insted of sp recycleing why not make it so 1 char is LOCKED to the account and can trian normally or maybe at a slightly higher SP/hour rate. locking the "main to account means it cannot be sold ect. BUT heres the good bit.. 1 of the NON locked chars can train at the same time too!! hows that for an idea? |
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Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
17
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Posted - 2012.10.28 22:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:It has yet to ever be possible to 'catch up'. Until EvE has been out for... 50 years? Right now, it's impossible not to catch up unless you actively avoid it. Once you reach lvl V, you have caught up with everyone forever. On top of that, the way the skill system enforces exponentially smaller bonuses for exponentially more time spent, you can get more bonuses faster by not going for max skill level. The only thing you can't catch up with is total SP, and as luck would have it, total SP is a meaningless stat (aside from making your clone more expensive).
i agree i have like nearly 50m sp and never got a weapon specialization to 5 cause its wasted time fo only 2% more dmg. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10167
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 22:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:how about insted of sp recycleing why not make it so 1 char is LOCKED to the account and can trian normally or maybe at a slightly higher SP/hour rate. locking the "main to account means it cannot be sold ect. BUT heres the good bit.. 1 of the NON locked chars can train at the same time too!! hows that for an idea? GǪso, basically a character-sale farming setup? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
22
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Posted - 2012.10.28 23:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Blastil wrote:this is absolutely the worst idea ever.
All I would do is roll new chars, with a few hundred thousand SP and then biomass them every few hours. I could have all my skills to level 5 within months, all for free.
One might argue for a pay for sp mechanic, but then that breaks the 'pay to win' promise CCP said they would NEVER cross. If they cross that line, that's the day EVE dies. Never tried making an alt character on the same account for some time. The reason being was that you could only train one character at a time so I didn't see the point in halting training on one character to start training a second when I could halt the training on the main and replace it with a new skill still on the main. Taking the same amount of time. Unless that has changed and you can now train more than one character on the same account at the same time, then I fail to see how this will speed up maxing skills out. The only thing would be that people could buy a second account, start training a character on that account and then after x amount of time, pay to have the character transferred and then recycle. So you have to pay for at least a months subscription then pay for a char transfer on top of that. You simply paying CCP for an increase in training speed. EDIT: Nvm, I realize now you are talking about the sp a character starts out with. Although that is an easy fix, the amount of sp - the amount of sp a character starts with get recycled.
it still seems totally useless and a wonderful way to break the already existing and working SP mechanic. This is the ONLY mechanic that has worked since the dawn of eve, and I suggest we DON"T eff it up.
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NiGhTTraX
FISKL GUARDS Nulli Secunda
214
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Posted - 2012.10.28 23:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Start a new account with a new character. Buy 2 +5 implants and train only skills that are affected by those. Transfer to my main account, biomass and apply the SP to whatever skill I desire.
Or buy a new character with tons of SP and relocate it to my main.
This is just a fancy way to say 'PLEX 4 SP'. If you're gonna post here thinking your idea is the greatest thing since bacon and that it will save EVE and possibly all humankind with it, you're gonna have a bad time. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
926
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Posted - 2012.10.28 23:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Every time someone brings up this idea it gets shot down because it is a terrible idea. Why do people feel the need to continue proposing awful ideas? Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
102
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 23:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Every time someone brings up this idea it gets shot down because it is a terrible idea. Why do people feel the need to continue proposing awful ideas?
It's the Congress Effect. SOPA gets shot down, so they reframe it and rename it then hope it goes unnoticed the next time through.
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Xolve
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
1188
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Posted - 2012.10.28 23:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:how about insted of sp recycleing why not make it so 1 char is LOCKED to the account and can trian normally or maybe at a slightly higher SP/hour rate. locking the "main to account means it cannot be sold ect. BUT heres the good bit.. 1 of the NON locked chars can train at the same time too!! hows that for an idea?
Just as bad as the OP.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
7
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Posted - 2012.10.29 01:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Blastil wrote:
it still seems totally useless and a wonderful way to break the already existing and working SP mechanic. This is the ONLY mechanic that has worked since the dawn of eve, and I suggest we DON"T eff it up.
Good Point.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Me ofcourse
There is no life in space
25
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Posted - 2012.10.29 01:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
ok, correct me if im missing this point, IF OP's idea ever went through and was ever implemented. im pretty sure that there is a way which people would be able to exploit this, simply because each account can create 3 characters. so have one main, and create 2 accounts and biomass them to add into the mains SP pool, basicly giving him a boost to his SP right there and then. no matter how little SP that is, its still a boost, so all the player would have to do is constantly create a new character and repeat the process |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
931
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 01:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Me ofcourse wrote:ok, correct me if im missing this point, IF OP's idea ever went through and was ever implemented. im pretty sure that there is a way which people would be able to exploit this, simply because each account can create 3 characters. so have one main, and create 2 accounts and biomass them to add into the mains SP pool, basicly giving him a boost to his SP right there and then. no matter how little SP that is, its still a boost, so all the player would have to do is constantly create a new character and repeat the process
The tiny free amount wouldn't make it worthwhile with a 10-hour biomass countdown per character. There would be far easier ways to game it. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
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