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ROCK MELTER
GETCO Black Thorne Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.01.22 02:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
I like the idea of an Ore hauler that hauls ORE. Does not need to have a large cargo hold BUT the cargo hold could be a SPECIAL cargo hold to hold crystals. THAT hold could be HUGE to take care of alliance needs in the fields. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
244
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Posted - 2013.01.22 07:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
Indeed. For mining ops above 3 or 4 miners, it makes sense to have a larger hauler for the ore they are retrieving. At the moment a second Orca or a Freighter is the only alternative to a swathe of rookies in Indys. They are expensive and skill intensive. Losing one of these in a mining op gone wrong is a heavy hit, (while you can keep a mining fleet aligned, the same cannot be said for the haulers,) and while I agree that fools should not be wrapped in cotton wool, it would be good to have a cheaper and more accessible option. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
5
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Posted - 2013.01.22 09:39:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gas miner sounds good, maybe make it a crusier class so it has a chance against sleepers :P
The modular BC hauler sounds great as well |
Psihius
Anarchist Dawn U N K N O W N
26
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Posted - 2013.01.22 10:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
To me some ideas look like a magic rainbows wanted, but still some rational seeds are there.
Personaly me is missing these things:
- Cruisier/Battlecruisier sized gas cloud harvester. Venture is good, but it's essentially a noob ship for high-sec and some low-sec as CCP stated themselfves. I'd imagine it to be more efficient (like 15-20% better than Venture) and have a bigger ore bay (10-15k m3 at least). I'd imagine it loosing the +2 warp strengh. It definetly needs an ability for fitting at least 1 gang link like we now usually use Hurricane in the fleet of Ventures to provide bonuses.
- Medium-sized hauler in between industrials/orca and freighters. You don't need a hauler of 30-100k m3 - there is orca doing just that perfectly. Something around the capacity of the Jump Freighter would be perfect. Why not same as Orca? Because orca has it's own ninche - it can haul assembled ships, it has a fleet hangar and can be fitted acording to the task at hand (EHP more than a freighter can be acheeved). Hauler probably will not be a capital ship, meaning traiding it's EHP for other traits.
I could add some stuff about mining crystals, Rorqual being usefull only at the POS and other stuff, but I would leave that to other people, because I stopped doing professional mining long time ago. But I do logistics and gas mining in WH daily, so I know that stuff :) |
Katherine Jasmone
18
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Posted - 2013.01.22 10:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
The issue I have with the Orca is that is an Industrial Command Ship and not an ore hauler as some have stated. Waste of time and mining bonuses by having the ship hauling (in warp no bonuses are given).
I'll illustrated this with a fleet mining op scenario (hi-sec)
Mind you that this a somewhat redundant explanation for those who actually run mining ops.
Orca + 3-5 mining barges/exhumers + dedicated "proposed" ore hauler support.
Orca roles:
- Command support - mining foreman links and appropriate modules.
- Overflow support - tractors in overflow from cans (yes, jetcan mining) for storage in ore/cargo/fleet.
- Fitting service. Mining crystal storage.
- Drone - light and/or medium. Salvage drones optional.
Mining barges/exhumers: Mining - "doing what they do best"
Proposed orehauler
- Either a reuse of the Noctis/Primae hull or new hull entirely.
- Slot config - 4-2-3 ( Can fit 4 tractors)
- Dedicated fixed capacity 50-75k m3 - cannot fit secure containers.
- BC sig and speed. No drone hold.
- Bonuses relevant to skills affect tractor range, speed (5%) and hold per level (5k per level)
At least these are my thoughts.
Yes , I am an alt. Yes, you may put a bounty on me. Yes, I am a forumwarrior/troll. Yes, I have a life. No, I am not posting with my main. Why paint a target on my back? :) |
Pearl Canopus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2013.01.22 11:22:00 -
[66] - Quote
Psihius wrote:... - Cruisier/Battlecruisier sized gas cloud harvester. Venture is good, but it's essentially a noob ship for high-sec and some low-sec as CCP stated themselfves. I'd imagine it to be more efficient (like 15-20% better than Venture) and have a bigger ore bay (10-15k m3 at least). I'd imagine it loosing the +2 warp strengh. It definetly needs an ability for fitting at least 1 gang link like we now usually use Hurricane in the fleet of Ventures to provide bonuses.
I know about these wishes due to my study of ORE Frigate Thread. I don't know what CCP will do to establish a Tech2 ship. Many times the more specialized gas harvesting ship has been suggested there. I believe it should be possible in any way. To establish an ORE Cruiser would need a new ORE Cruiser skill and more ships in there again. :) Ealier or later... But a Tech2 frigate may match a lot of the wishes provided in past.
Psihius wrote:Medium-sized hauler in between industrials/orca and freighters. You don't need a hauler of 30-100k m3 - there is orca doing just that perfectly. Something around the capacity of the Jump Freighter would be perfect. Why not same as Orca? Because orca has it's own ninche - it can haul assembled ships, it has a fleet hangar and can be fitted acording to the task at hand (EHP more than a freighter can be acheeved). Hauler probably will not be a capital ship, meaning traiding it's EHP for other traits. The Orca is fine as a hauler. But it's a capital ship with capital skill needs. The thread suggested modular haulers (equal to Tech3 Cruisers) or more ORE industrials. If the Orca could be entered with a lower amount of skills in order to use them as a hauler, then it will work as hauler perfectly. It's truely ok to have a high skill need to use it as a Capital Industrial Command ship. The cargo bays of the ORCA need a rebalancing after rising the ore cargo bays of mining barges and exhumers to capital sizes (for instance 275.000m³ ore bay). Instead of ORCA with at least nearly quarter or half a year of skill training a hauler would need 4 levels ORE/Mining Frigate, Industry 3 and 1 Level ORE Industrial. So you can enter the smallest and/or fastest ORE hauler as easy than a racial hauler. ORE hauler would be optimized for carrying ore (possibly minerals) as bulk.
The intention of this thread is NOT nerfing the Orca but adding new ORE Industrials with a lower amount of skill needs and maybe ORE Capital Industrials for more independant 0-sec jobs. Beginners can assist bigger hisec mining operations using an ore hauler.
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Pearl Canopus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2013.01.31 15:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
Bump. An interesting hauler discussion is to be found here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=172083
It's not compatible with this thread completely but provides interesting options to be discussed here too. |
Pearl Canopus
Liberavis Transport Dispatch Corporation
8
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Posted - 2013.02.07 12:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
I'll try a summary: ORE Industrials ORE may provide additional ships, what match the ORE Industrial segment. These ships will be reachable with a lower amount of skill needs.
Faction Industrials ORE may interact with other primarily Gallente based factions as Syndicate (Zephyr) or InterBus in order to provide more specialized haulers. These ships may match several and different professions. ORE -> ore bulk hauling, matching the needs of small to large sized mining gangs (no command options) Syndicate -> Smuggling (Look at 'Zephyr' for inspirations.) InterBus -> bulk transports HiSec/LowSec
Faction Modules Maybe Syndicate or InterBus provide modules what matches a profession. Syndicate -> lowering visibility (target radius) while lowering HP and cargo capacity, hardening armor/shield while massively reducing cargo capacity for Safe-Trans (stacking penalty), hardening cargo bay against cargo scanning while reducing cargo capacity InterBus -> Cargo modules for Mid- and HiSlots -> providing highend hauler cargo capacity (stacking penalty), if all slots are filled with cargobay-modules (Iteron Mark V may reach max. 200k m-¦). Example: 'InterBus Expanded Cargohold' (low slot) -> adds cargo capacity like an 'Expanded Cargohold I' but without the velocity penalty. HP or Power/CPU might be penalized instead.
Racial Industrial Faction versions Maybe Syndicate or InterBus providing Iteron Mark I, III, V as faction versions with specialization to professions. No new ships would be needed but skins only.
---
ORE Capital Industrials ORE Capital Industrials class may be filled with more specialized industrial ships or with one chassis what may get industrial subsystems (cargo bay, ore cargo bay, ore compression system, corp hangar, ship hangar, command systems, energy systems, CPU extensions, VAT bay, WH-mining systems, mining systems, drone bay, PI-covering subsystems, etc.) comparable to Tech3 but without the skill/producing needs of Tech3 systems. The number of simultanously usable subsystems will be very limited.
Orca gets a lower entry level as hauler but a higher skill level need as industrial command ship. Rorqal becomes a Tech2 ship. Venture gets a Tech2 gas-mining twin.
Tech3 ORE industrial subsystems may be added in order to fulfill needs of 0-Sec and solo-playing freelancers.
Skill pathes will be unified to racial ones. Subsystems need specialized skills each.
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Kathern Aurilen
19
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Posted - 2013.02.14 22:15:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jin alPatar wrote:[quote=Hakan MacTrew]2. Modular Hauler I've seen other people recommend "T3 Haulers/Harvester" but never really liked the idea. I do like your version. I'd say the ore Bay should be larger (let's say 4x the normal cargo bay as it's limited to Ore only). I wouldn't say 4x,,, I would think maybe a 1.5-2x of the normal. A 4x T2 mod would make it bigger than the orca holds. I am a chat alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew -á:(
I named my mining frig adVenture time!! |
Kathern Aurilen
19
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Posted - 2013.02.14 22:39:00 -
[70] - Quote
Pearl Canopus wrote:When I introduce a "Super Mining Barge" I don't see more mining efficiency or revenue but much more resilience and independence in mining process for the "lone wolf lowsec/0-sec miners". Much more ore cargo or possibilities to reduce the needed cargo amount for instance by onboard ore processing (low grade). Super Barge Skills may slightly buff refining bonus or ability to use refining modules or additional drones or so on. I would be a lil scared to run a lone miner(even super tough in 0.0). I think people are making great strides with the venture. Its very responsive and can be in warp in 2-3 seconds and hard to stop unless they warp right on top of you.
I think the idea of a self contain refinery is too much.... MAYBE a self contained ore compression mod but I think that would have to take the place of a strip miner plus it would have to be in a deployed mode that would be pushing in Rorqual territory, but thats pretty over the top too. It would have to be BIG super slow and that's a gank magnet waiting to happen. I am a chat alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew -á:(
I named my mining frig adVenture time!! |
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Kathern Aurilen
19
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Posted - 2013.02.14 23:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:kes less than 30 days from character creation to get into any one freighter. It takes nearly 50 days to get into an Orca.
using an Orca as a hauler just doesn't make sense with facts like that. In my eyes, the Orca should have been an ore hauler. A T2 version should have been the booster. They the taking the mining pre-reqs out so the orca training time to get into a orca is going down to 14.5 days in the up coming summer expansion I am a chat alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew -á:(
I named my mining frig adVenture time!! |
Kathern Aurilen
19
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Posted - 2013.02.14 23:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
Katherine Jasmone wrote:Proposed orehauler
- Either a reuse of the Noctis/Primae hull or new hull entirely.
- Slot config - 4-2-3 ( Can fit 4 tractors)
- Dedicated fixed capacity 50-75k m3 - cannot fit secure containers.
- BC sig and speed. No drone hold.
- Bonuses relevant to skills affect tractor range, speed (5%) and hold per level (5k per level)
At least these are my thoughts. I would much rather a new hull with JUST a dedicated ore hold(or a VERY limited 5-10k cargo hold to bring back more mining crystals). The Noc is to good at its job to go messing around with it. No saving the Primea, the holds are too small to crowbar in a 75,000m3 ore hold.
Maybe use the cheap end of the indy tree slots(iteron1 has 2 low 2 mid and 1 high)... the Orca can tractor in the can to a central location for pick up. I can see if u wanted to fit a tractor(maybe a roll bonus, not a skill bonus)
Again dedicated ore hold ONLY
I agree, its basically a indy so no drones
Bonuses I would think are better suited to ore hold sizing like other indys 50-75ooo m3 I am a chat alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew -á:(
I named my mining frig adVenture time!! |
Kathern Aurilen
19
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Posted - 2013.02.14 23:34:00 -
[73] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:I would still like to see a hauler with a similar cargo capability, with lower cost. Just for ore or ships. (Although the ship transporter has been mentioned as basically being a loot pinata in similar posts.)
As for scan proofing, thats on the way out. Corp hanger, ore hold and maintainance hanger will all scan and drop loot. I don't like the idea of scanning proof unless its a T2 Transport ship but that's the job of the racial transport ships. Most of what ORE should be making should be indy related I am a chat alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew -á:(
I named my mining frig adVenture time!! |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
386
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 11:08:00 -
[74] - Quote
bump MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
447
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Posted - 2013.04.05 10:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
bump MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Patrice Macmahon
The Lost Minmatar Legion
0
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Posted - 2013.04.25 11:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
My Contribution: Dusting Off the Primae - Industrials with Roles
It's just the industrials, but you might get a kick out of it.
Otherwise, couple nice ideas out of here. Similar to a lot. Seems to be a consensus that an ORE specific hauler to support the barges massive cargo holds seems to be running theme.
+1 to more ships that fill the needed niche! -á"Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."-á |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
126
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Posted - 2013.04.26 00:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
I will add to the ops post, as I've got similar ideas of my own:
ORE Command Center - Unlike anything seen before, this is a mobile POS that can be cyno'd between systems. It has no pilot, but is 'directed' to locations like a probe would be, through a system map interface by those who have rights within the owning corporations.
This Center is smaller than a POS, but is capable of moving between systems using wormholes (not gates). It's built like an outpost, and is capable of having docked ships inside. It's able to hold a fully fit Rorqual and several smaller ships, and can include combat ships.
Through modular attachments, it's ship hold, corporate hangars, refining and reprocessing and member hangars can be expanded and customized. Hopefully, in future iterations, it can even hold incarna style interiors.
Player may deposit their ships in the ship hangar. The Command Center itself has no armaments, but it's shields are fuel based and nigh impregnable. Without fire support, though, a command center is simply a large rock waiting for enough force to break it. It does not have POS shields, but station shields, meaning it cannot protect other ships within it's range.
Unlike stations and even POS's, the capabilities of the ORE Command Center are ultimately limited by the size of the ship, as well as fuel. It requires fuel to bridge, to jump, to move in-system, and to run it's shields.
As mentioned earlier, a unique feature of the ORE Command Center is it's capability of using wormholes to move. Though it's size almost guarantees the wormhole will collapse upon it's transfer, it can bridge and stabilize the wormhole temporarily to allow other ships to move through first, though this requires a massive fuel expenditure.
Because of issues with orbits, Command Centers cannot be on the same grid as POS's (mostly to prevent uber POS's where the POS's guns protect the Command Centers' superior control mechanics). If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |
Aldarr Mentakk
Str8ngeBrew RAZOR Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.05.11 21:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
love the idea |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
5
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Posted - 2013.05.11 22:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
I like this thread. I don't mine or transport much except as a means to an end, but some of these ideas are pretty cool.
To add in my own thoughts, I'd like to keep small and see some development of the Venture into a nifty little low- null- sec miner. Probably a decent combination of quick and tanky, give it a bonus to the mining lasers and gas harvesters to allow it to fill its ore hold quickly. The +2 warp core is a help, but I am not sure it is enough to keep this ship viable in the more dangerous parts of space.
A smaller, quicker version of a Noctis would be cool, too. Personally, I never really manage to fill up it's 1460 m3 cargo hold, so I'd love to see a destroyer sized version with maybe 600 to 700 m3 capacity but good speed and also viable for low- and null- sec areas.
Big ships are fun, but I think they tend to wind up just being targets for gank squads. I like the idea of small and sneaky. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
48
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Posted - 2013.05.11 22:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
I read this as ***** Ships! I like that idea and this one!
ORE Industrials take time to train and for only afew ships it's a massive shame.
+1
PS: WH-ORE ships could work as well for, well you know, Wormholes lol My Feature\Idea:-áFast Character Switching "XP Stylee" |
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Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
18
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Posted - 2013.05.11 23:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:I read this as ***** Ships! I like that idea and this one!
ORE Industrials take time to train and for only afew ships it's a massive shame.
+1
PS: WH-ORE ships could work as well for, well you know, Wormholes lol
Mobile brothel? If the pirates can haz them, why can't we? If nothing blew up, no one would buy your stuff. |
Mavis Tikalie
XPT Intergallactic The East India Co.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.13 02:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
I found this section very interesting and a little bit of a laugh. Especially when I looked through all and saw no CCP member has currently commented on this thread.
First of all since Odyssey is coming out with a skill change for the Orca and Rorqual they will both use the ORE Industrial skill. This will lower the requirements for the Orca to around a mere twenty days of training. You will see a bunch more Orca's around after this patch I believe. Though because of demand the prices will probably rise till the corps start pumping out mass numbers to compensate. From what I've seen so far I believe the Rorqual will take an even longer time to train up.
Now upon the Super Barge topic. I've imagines one of these things as a T2 Variant of an Orca. But the idea that it could process ore is kinda ridiculous they might as well just make a T2 Titan and turn it into a mining barge. A ship shouldn't be a mobile factory. Okay maybe that's a little over the top but still it don't' be able to process ore. This is what I'd basically have to be; a T2 Orca with no ship maintenance bay (That needs to be renamed as well I mean they don't even repair ships!), a very small cargo bay and a large ore bay. Most likely a new mining laser would also be made or it would be fitted with around six strip miners, which would look rather awesome. I'd also say it should have no Ice mining capability. It's tractor beam and up link roles should also be removed.
Anyway that's my idea so what it would look like. Feel free to send me messages in Eve to rage at me about whatever I just said. Anyway thank's for your time. -Tali |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
54
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Posted - 2013.05.13 13:17:00 -
[83] - Quote
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:I read this as ***** Ships! I like that idea and this one!
ORE Industrials take time to train and for only afew ships it's a massive shame.
+1
PS: WH-ORE ships could work as well for, well you know, Wormholes lol Mobile brothel? If the pirates can haz them, why can't we?
Exactly Rayzilla, we're talking the same language! My Feature\Idea:-áFast Character Switching "XP Stylee" |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
646
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Posted - 2013.08.01 18:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
To the top. HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression - The only way to go! |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire
1076
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Posted - 2013.08.02 04:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
There is a need for a blueprint hauler. Something with a giant target on it's back. YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Sunai Karvinoinas
3
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Posted - 2013.08.02 16:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
I don't like all of the hauler redesign made by CCP currently.
But the mentioned mineral and ore hauler are available. But not at possibly best solution within the ORE skill path yet.
In all other ways here's given a lot of input. Now anybody may check the "Assembly Hall" for matching suggestions. If there's no one (can't believe that really), we should open a thread there.
I have some favourites right now.
Frigate Class 1. T2 Mining Frigate for harsh environment (maybe cruiser sized and maybe with different bonusses for each model)
2. Fast Hauler/Speed Hauler Manouverability of a logistic frigate but cargo size up to 1,000m-¦.
Industrial Class 1. Tug Boat Containers (also specialized cargo containers) could be adapted. 1 container for each skill level "ORE Industrial". Each container rises the align time and reduces the max. velocity. Warp speed might be about 2,5 AE/s. What slots could be needed, I don't know. I don't need slots for such a high-sec micro freighter.
2. Gang Assistance Each Ship/module/subsystem could provide 1 special gang support, like - Fleet Hangar - Maintenance Bay (incl. T3 subsystem maintenance) - Repair Service - Fuel Service - Ore Compression - Clone Vat Bay - ...
3. T1-/T2-Subsystems for Industrial Capabilities mentioned above. Subsystems could provide all the abilities needed for special goals in industrial beeing without creating the target plate at their butt. So far this was one of the first suggestions in this thread.
4. Factional Modules to customize a freighter for special abilities (ie. smuggling). - Armor Module -> Armored Money Car (+ Armor, +scan defense, -Speed, --capacity) - Signal Dispenser -> ++scan defense, --velocity (maybe the module can fake cargo informations)
5. Micro Freighter Industrial sized, slow bulk transporter, with a huge amount of cargo up to 200k m-¦. No slots.
Capital Industrial Class 1. Ship Hauler (Mini-Carrier) Ship can carry fitted ships up to cruiser or BC size. Call it flying fleet/gang/corp hangar. Hangar capacity might be enough for 3 common BC or a lot of Hulks... ;) Ships has nearly no slots but a drone bandwidth for at least 5 heavy drones (125Mbps) flying around. No drone expansion rigs possible. The drone bay capacity could be much larger (200m-¦) in order to assist gang operations in some kind. Size and manouverability could be comparable to Orca.
2. Capital Exhumer for advanced solo mining Big drone bay and bandwidth. 2 capital minedrill beam. Ability to use jump drives. Huge armor and shield. Size and manouverability could be comparable to Orca.
3. Ore Freighter Capital ore cargo hold but only smart common cargo bay. Might reach about 2,000,000m-¦ of ore. Fully comparable to racial freighters (no slots, low speed and manouverability)
There were some more real good ideas in past. Some of them might be gone with the industrial overhaul of CCP. Of curse, there won't come all of the suggestions but it would be great if any. - this is an unskilled forum char |
Xeator
Nasranite Watch OLD MAN GANG
4
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Posted - 2013.10.03 06:13:00 -
[87] - Quote
Yes, more ORE ships!
Dunno if something could also be done to make lowsec mining more appealing? Some ship geared more towards holding its own against the odd gankers, but not withstanding a gang of pvpers? |
Matthew Charbonneaux
Coalescent Dynamics
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 06:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
I had an idea for a carrier type thing of similar description, but it got shot down. I fully support a ship like this... no jump drive, but some Orca/carrier abilities... something that could work as a flag ship, or support, or just a ship transport. |
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