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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
648
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Posted - 2012.11.17 00:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:removing local in nullsec would be the best thing ever, null would still suck poopie tho, not sure how to fix that
Are you the one criticizing other people's posts for not adding to the discussion? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ares Desideratus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.11.17 00:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Ares Desideratus wrote:removing local in nullsec would be the best thing ever, null would still suck poopie tho, not sure how to fix that Are you the one criticizing other people's posts for not adding to the discussion? Nope, not me. |
Cpt Arareb
Ideal Machine Academy The Ideal Machine
34
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Posted - 2012.11.17 00:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
ccp kill local! just kill it already! |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
266
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Posted - 2012.11.17 01:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
Local always has been exploited for unintended effects on gameplay.
It is high time for it to be fixed.
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qDoctor Strangelove
TaskF0rce Executive Vice Empire
45
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Posted - 2012.11.19 16:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Local always has been exploited for unintended effects on gameplay.
It is high time for it to be fixed.
Remove Local Remove Concorde
There, fixed it for ya. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
372
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Posted - 2012.11.19 18:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Local always has been exploited for unintended effects on gameplay.
It is high time for it to be fixed.
How is it unintended? Local now flashes when it spikes. Was that unintentional too?
Removing local only aids in hiding the biggest blob. There is really no advantage to anyone else. |
Cheetah Paws
Helion Production Labs Mildly Sober
0
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Posted - 2012.12.23 06:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote: Another point is removing local will just protect those who do not want to PvP. I'm never interested in anything that will protect carebears, not at all. Seriously if you want to avoid PvP you should just stay in high sec or a worm hole. The brilliance of this game is the risk involved in everything you do, particularly outside of high sec. Without that this game would be like every other **** MMO out there.
having AFK cloaky campers for days does not have risk in null/low sec area
I think having afk for so long then put AFK tab next to toon on local chat |
Dzajic
67
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Posted - 2012.12.23 09:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
Staying in WH and avoiding PVP in same sentence. Epic troll fail. |
Darvaleth Sigma
105
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Posted - 2012.12.23 10:05:00 -
[69] - Quote
Does nobody get it? AFK means AFK. How the **** can somebody hurt you when they're NOT AT THEIR KEYBOARD?!
The answer is NO THEY CAN'T.
So many whiny threads! Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life! |
Dzajic
67
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Posted - 2012.12.23 11:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
No one gives a frak about your trolling. Everyone knows what "AFK cloaker" means, stop playing naive.
But for more naive lolz let me put it like this, they are not dangerous when they are truly AFK, problem is for a "AFK cloaker" you don't know when he's afk and when he's 10km from you ready to uncloak and tackle your pimped anom running PVE boat.
Trivial solutions to problem exist. For example a sov structure that can burn trough cloak if you are cloaked in system for more than a hour. Or cloaked ships building up signature strengthen over time as they stay cloaked for a long time, so you can probe them even if they are cloaked if they spent most of last 5 hours in same system cloaked. |
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Tasiv Deka
Jadablade Redneck Rage
50
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Posted - 2012.12.25 04:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dzajic wrote:No one gives a frak about your trolling. Everyone knows what "AFK cloaker" means, stop playing naive.
But for more naive lolz let me put it like this, they are not dangerous when they are truly AFK, problem is for a "AFK cloaker" you don't know when he's afk and when he's 10km from you ready to uncloak and tackle your pimped anom running PVE boat.
Trivial solutions to problem exist. For example a sov structure that can burn trough cloak if you are cloaked in system for more than a hour. Or cloaked ships building up signature strengthen over time as they stay cloaked for a long time, so you can probe them even if they are cloaked if they spent most of last 5 hours in same system cloaked.
The whole 10km away line is anti-cloaking in general... which is the problem alot of people seem to have an issue with cloaks and theyre using the "AFK-CLOAKERS ARE EVIL" as a way to try and get a mechanic they dont like removed from the game, when in reality they just need to accept the fact that cloaks are part of life in eve... as for the local removed argument to be honest i have issues with both viewpoints... but all and all i dont care which way they go. Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |
Dea della Morte
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.12.25 16:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Whelp, that has to be one of the worst ideas i've seen here..
No intel unless you have a scanning ship No scams in local No local chat period looks like OP can't rat in his carrier in null because of a cloaki...
Here's an idea, Align out. At the first sign of anything.. warp out? I've never fully understood why this is such an issue. Literaly two clicks solves the issue. No need to take out an integral part of the game because you can't be bothered to align out..
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psycho freak
Snuff Box
82
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Posted - 2012.12.27 10:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
You cant get rid of local and heres why
becouse the current crop of eve players are whineing pansys who would rage quit or endlessly cry on forums
eve players have become spoonfed pansys or clueless sheep my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k
nop cant find it |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
329
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Posted - 2012.12.27 13:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Abyssum Invocat wrote:Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. Thank you but I would rather not spend 5 minutes d-scanning every system during a roam to figure out whether or not I was alone. Some parts of Eve are empty for 10 jumps in every direction, having to meticulously comb every AU with your scanner and pray no one unwittingly passed you, is not good gameplay. well. using wormholers logic.....
Star gates proven itself as useful. There is thousands of gates in University. They provide PvP and stuff. WH would be better should CCP add constantly placed gates into each wormhole.
and no. They don't like local chat so we can do them favor: WH don't need local. |
Maire Gheren
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
To the people who say removing local would kill PVP because they'd have to scan systems down: You do realize that the converse of that is that the people in the system don't get the opportunity to see you come into the system and instantly bolt for cover where you can't find them? It's a wash. You waste time scanning systems with nobody in it, but the systems with people in it, your scanning will actually find people instead of having them hide. |
Maire Gheren
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
Maybe a "System info" window that we can add information from the star map filters to to monitor, have it light up the moment someone fires off a cyno. Then we can have one little window with stuff like "Average pilots in system in past 30 minutes", "Pods destroyed in last hour", and so on to keep an eye on. Of course these are all delayed as we know, so we don't instantly know to bolt and dock up the instant a couple of ships come off the gate. More info, more useful info, but not as instantly timely. As far as the channel is concerned, I notice that some of my channels only show the people who were recently talking in it. So you can still scam in Amarr local without having a big list of everyone in system. |
Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
200
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
+1
Since this will never happen due to whiners, just add a ~30 second delay to local in low and null. At the very least, I don't think you should appear in local until you have decloaked post-jump. |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
598
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Posted - 2012.12.27 19:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
Dscan is free intel. As is your overview, the starmap filters, and that nice little launcher that tells you how many people are logged into EVE.
So, what types of 'free intel' do you have a problem with?
[quote=Shepard BookYes, This is an ALT. I prefer to keep my opinions away from the people I associate with. Good or bad as they maybe. Rest assure, I am actually in close range of you in the killboard to value so highly. Most of my kills in Eve are from 0.0 not low sec though. Thanks for your reply Nex.[/quote]
Admitting you're posting as an alt because you're too timid to associate internet forum opinion with your main character is fine. Claiming that hidden main character tops the killboards by mere assertion? Put up, or don't mention it at all. |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
109
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:39:00 -
[79] - Quote
When ever someone recommends this I am reminded of Zaphod's Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses.
vOv Aideron Robotics is hiring for the Gallente Federation war effort! https://www.aideronrobotics.com/wiki/Applying |
Invictus Kruegar
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
0
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Posted - 2012.12.28 15:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
The people that want to keep Local in null are either Null bears or botters. Local is where bots notice someone in system and warp off and hide. So removing local in Null would would hinder botters income which we all want, Yes? As been mentioned Local could be an upgrade to keep them null bears happy!
Carebears- Manafacture in hi-sec Null bears- Whinge on forums.
Flame away gentleman
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M1k3y Koontz
Blackened Skies
122
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Posted - 2013.01.01 22:05:00 -
[81] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Mortimer Civer wrote:No local only works in wormspace because the inhabitants can control the access to their space by colapsing wormholes that lead to inhabited WH systems. There have been many times where we leave the hole open while we run sites... What we do (get this) is we put an alt in a cloaked ship about 50kms off the hole, and we actually WATCH IT! Amazing I know. Turns out you can do this with star gates as well.who knew?
Oh look, a WH'er talking about how to fix something that he doesn't take part in.
You can close said WHs, you cannot close stargates.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
167
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Posted - 2013.01.01 23:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
Removing wormholes whould increase the amount of PVP.
Ganks......not good fights though.
And once ganking increased the lvl of paranoia would increase and eve would become a wasteland. High sec would be the only regulary populated section of space. Low would ebcome worse than null and null would just be plain empty.
The only people who would enjoy this are the dedicated WH dwellers and after a while they too would get bored of 75% of the game being empty! Null is currently very bloody empty removing local would kill it off.
Improved scanners you say! Pffft! All the improved scanner ideas end up giving yuo the same information as current but with more server work/lag, more player work and probably a screwed up UI. Where is the benefit over local.
So far the no lcoal crowd are just stating their opinion that it would be better without it. If there was a serious benefit to EVE as a whole then CCP would have already tried in on mass. Just cos it's not there in WH's is NOT a valid reason to implement it eve wide. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
Noisrevbus
370
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Posted - 2013.01.02 01:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I don't fly in sov null sec. The op doesn't seem limit his proposal to sov null sec.
I did explain why I think local is a fairly balanced intel tool. It gives you some preliminary information on a system like is there anyone even there, and are they all in the same corp/alliance (and therefore likely in the same fleet) it also tells you who they are so if they are always in a bait ship you don't need to waste your time.
IMO this basic information is not something that should require a bunch of work.
The dscan then tells us what ships they are in and with some work what location they are in.
I don't see any reason to make this process more tedious.
I really don't see a problem with the current set up. I use dscan as both offensive and defensive in pvp and pve. But again I am in low sec where there are usually people in local. So ymmv in sov null sec.
I don't see peoples complaints about seeing afk cloakers in local as having any merit at all. Stay aligned if you are not behind an accel gate.
I'm sorry for the late reply, i had completely forgotten about this thread (in all fairness, there are so many "afk cloaker" threads made by imbeciles now that it's hard keeping up with all of them).
You are essentially repeating the point i made: In places like Lowsec there is so much traffic that no one really uses local as an exclusive intel-safety tool. In places like NPC-null it's a stronger tool as there are less people, but you still have reasonable traffic; multiple corps or alliances living out of the same systems or constellations who are neutral to each other, so a neutral character is something that is essentially always around. When everyone have equal docking rights, they have equal footing to take fights or not. In Wormholes you have no local.
As such, AFK cloaking is generally not practised in Low, NPC or WH because there is no "need" for it and because it doesn't spawn the same reaction or behaviour. There are definately people going for PvP-opportunities on PvE-efforts with stealthy ships, but they are not "AFK cloaked" as the system as a whole do not suggest neutrality as an anomaly - so active content is available to them in parity to personal actions (ie., people may run once you actively drop probes or hit their missions, plexes or belts). They do not modify their behaviour based on the local mechanics though, which is the important difference.
Sovnull represents a pretty exclusive scenario where you have a rather large amount of players who will instantly go to safety the second a neutral player enter local. They will then proceed to amass a large force (with their political allies), not to earnestly fight you - but to chase you out of local or discourage you to come back, as to not deal with you themselves. They will in many cases not even be apart of the defensive effort to push you out, or they will only play a trivial role in it.
Once again, a key difference here is that they don't want fights. They don't want AFK-cloaking to go away to combat it; what they want is the removal of neutral anomalies from local. As such there are no fights and thus no sandbox-content. They adapt a "wait and bleed" strategy.
This is why AFK cloaking exist there, the cloaker do the same, because prolonged active presence in the area is void of other options short of taking their infra (taking and holding the grid, which is all about who can commit the most resources over timers and generally excludes underhanded and thus independent play; it's not just human behaviour that has caused the EVE scale-up from 2007 onwards, it's more importantly what the game mechanics premier and the behaviour derived from that), and because that same amount of players have grown so complacent with the immense defensive advantages in those systems that they will yawp and bawl at any percievable threat that they'd need to deal with themselves in a timely manner.
That's why we see these ridiculous suggestions regarding "decloak timers" and "decloak pulses", because complacent players (who can not maintain an active presence in those systems, and de facto hold them themselves) want an advantage in the "waiting-game" (pos/station waiting, vs. cloaked timers) and in the system-holding game with "local bleed" (run to pos when the enemy is superior, decloak him to run him off when you are superior). This ultimately leads to less fights and less spontaneous hostile elements in sovspace, as there is little content to be had even if you take the initiative to go there (from multiple regions away) and provide it.
The larger ramafications are that we have seen such a scale-up since the inception of the Dominion sov-system; where not only sov-holding alliances have turned into coalitions upon coalitions, but also where "irrelevant" roaming have gone from corporation efforts to alliance efforts or more. The role of "roaming PvP" that would threaten locals in place of AFK-cloaking today is essentially maintained by such small entities as the Neo Curse Coalition or the N3 Coalition that consist of several reasonably sized alliances (1000-man outfits). They are the spontaneous "roaming PvP" providers and content-spreaders, while smaller groups are turning their sights inwards, and limiting themselves to "Syndicate", "Curse", "Providence" or "Lowsec" rather than roaming both Low and Null. Something i presume you'd be more familiar with, no?
... or why don't you fly in Sov nullsec? That is a more interesting question than anything else really .
That's where the "AFK cloakers" fly anyway, and where all these complacent players spamming these threads most likely live. |
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