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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.04.10 23:04:00 -
[1]
Bravado? Frustration? or just plain dumb?
The reason I'm curious is that tonight I liberated some ore from a guy in a mining barge. He set 2 drones on me that didn't even get through to my Armor before Concord put him in a pod.
As i undocked from the station a few minutes later to pick up the rest of his can, he undocked in an indy, which was immediately fired on by the station sentries. Somehow he warped away, picked up the rest of his can and warped back to the station......Where the sentries promptly finished the job.
Very convenient, not only was the rest of the loot just outside the station for me, but in the debris was a rather nice 24% expander which I sold for 10 mill.
I'm not going to name names, but this guy had been playing for 7 months and threw away a barge, an indy, 10 mill of gear, 3 mill of ore and took a sec hit......Why do they do it?? Surely he would have known better, did I just stumble on someone a little...erm.....''Special'' or is it worth it to some people to open fire out of pride?
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.04.10 23:08:00 -
[2]
I've personally seen quite a few people do it. I guess they just need anger management sessions or something.
Ore theiving FTW _________________
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Zeepo
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Posted - 2005.04.10 23:08:00 -
[3]
Similar thing happened to me once, except it was a geddon that attacked me with 2 light drones |
MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.04.10 23:09:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MadGaz on 10/04/2005 23:10:38 That's about all the risk you get in your "profession" Fair enough if they want to attack you, pity the game mechanics dont support punishment for stealing.
btw this shouldnt be posted in crime + punishment, because you've said in the past that it's not a crime and there is no punishment atm. ------------------------------------------
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Emno
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Posted - 2005.04.10 23:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: MadGaz Edited by: MadGaz on 10/04/2005 23:10:38 That's about all the risk you get in your "profession" Fair enough if they want to attack you, pity the game mechanics dont support punishment for stealing.
btw this shouldnt be posted in crime + punishment, because you've said in the past that it's not a crime and there is no punishment atm.
well if its not a crime why did concord show up
even if it is the wrong person doing the crime...
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Delicious
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Posted - 2005.04.10 23:55:00 -
[6]
A 15 month old miner lost his dom and all his harvesters for setting a light drone on me. He warped to the station on structure and was wtfpwned by the sentry. I hate the fact that concord kill harvesters in space if their control ship agresses :| I got 2 harvesters from his kill can thou and his ore from the belt :D
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Maik002
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:00:00 -
[7]
Mining is becoming a **** with so much ore thieving. Tritanium is going up of the 3 isk per unit. Just keep doing this thing and your precious Iteron-dumb-ass-ore-transporter III may cost to you (and us) like a BS. Of course it doesnŠt matter with you as you have all the free veldspar you want. But this affects all of us flying any ship.
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DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tenaj Bravado? Frustration? or just plain dumb?
The reason I'm curious is that tonight I liberated some ore from a guy in a mining barge. He set 2 drones on me that didn't even get through to my Armor before Concord put him in a pod.
As i undocked from the station a few minutes later to pick up the rest of his can, he undocked in an indy, which was immediately fired on by the station sentries. Somehow he warped away, picked up the rest of his can and warped back to the station......Where the sentries promptly finished the job.
Very convenient, not only was the rest of the loot just outside the station for me, but in the debris was a rather nice 24% expander which I sold for 10 mill.
I'm not going to name names, but this guy had been playing for 7 months and threw away a barge, an indy, 10 mill of gear, 3 mill of ore and took a sec hit......Why do they do it?? Surely he would have known better, did I just stumble on someone a little...erm.....''Special'' or is it worth it to some people to open fire out of pride?
why steal to start with???
I know many will claim 'its a part of the game' but get real, explain it. Just explain why it is such a thrill to steal without any risk, and do you do this all the time?
You go and steal ore in a 0.9 sec system knowing there is nothing the miner can do. Yep that sure seems like a lot of fun. Parents sure must be proud. To me it sounds like someone exploiting a flaw in teh games mechanics.
Those thieves can claim this is not an exploit, but the rest can see it is. CCP has a long track record of denile on things being an exploit, until it has been fixed.
Fix this exploit. Allow the corp that was a victim, to attack a thief for 30 minutes or so.
Being a criminal shoud not be easy.
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MachZERO
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:25:00 -
[9]
I've been sitting on 30 mil trit for a long time but after seeing that someone was paying 3.30 isk per unit for 50 million units I took a day off from running missions and cashed in.
And pyreite at 7+ isk now.. lol
and Megacyte at an all time low...
How times have changed...
--------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" Something no one wants in eve. Pray that it never comes. They are locusts... You've been warned... ------------------------------------ |
Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:37:00 -
[10]
Ooh I'm a pirate! I also lurk in backalleys and kill people for fun and profit. _________________
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Khrystoff
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:45:00 -
[11]
On the other hand, So many people have been turned off to mining due to ore thieving (in my home system at least) that there is NO competition! I just take the few extra minutes to set up some instas from the fields to the stations and suddenly, mining into a can wouldn't save me more than a fraction of a minute per run.
I'm getting rich, with no risk, because people are giving up way too easily. It's a fact of the game that must be dealt with. If you are willing to spend 2 hours of your life on a risky venture then you must be willing to accept what goes wrong when that risk doesn't pay off. Mining shouldn't be as easy as it is in low-sec, and ore thieves simply balance that equation.
And it's not as if someone steals every singel can you ever start mining into. Averaged over your career you will mine far more than can be stolen no matter how hard they try. Mine during non-peak hours, mine in out of the way systems. Keep an eye on local and don't let thousands of thousands of units of ore build up in a can you cannot defend.
All this doesnt keep me from jettisoning bogus cans with insultingly-titled bookmarks just to laugh my *ss off when an ore thief jets over at top speed to plunder it. They fall for it every time
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Elucidate
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:54:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Elucidate on 11/04/2005 00:56:43
Originally by: Khrystoff
I'm getting rich, with no risk, because people are giving up way too easily. It's a fact of the game that must be dealt with. If you are willing to spend 2 hours of your life on a risky venture then you must be willing to accept what goes wrong when that risk doesn't pay off. Mining shouldn't be as easy as it is in low-sec, and ore thieves simply balance that equation.
If it's supposed to be risky for me, it needs to be doubly risky for the ore thief - you'll see ore thieving just about disappear if someone can retaliate with deadly force. Doubt to many people would ore-thieve if they got podded just about every time they tried.
Right now, it's a one-sided venture as risk goes, and that isn't right at all. The second someone opens my can that isn't in the gang, they need to get criminally flagged, take a sec hit and have me+concord on their asses. That would make it pretty fair. Then again, we'd all be better off if people had a sense of community and didn't do it, but there's always going to be the kiddies out there who believe they are cool because they can ruin someone elses game time.
A risky venture should be driving a tug full of valuable ore across .4 and under space - not mining in high sec space. ------------ Elucidate - Extraordinarily Lazy Miner |
Khrystoff
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:58:00 -
[13]
Why is the can even so necessary? if you want to get rich quick there are other ways to do it. Fill your hold, insta-warp to station, insta warp back to field and continue.
you cannot be ripped off, you cannot be stolen from, you cannot waste 2 hours of your time only to have your profit ganked by some low-life.
it's still getting rich quick, just not as quickly. Seems a worthwhile payoff to me, minor profit cuts for perfectly secure mining.
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Elucidate
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Posted - 2005.04.11 01:01:00 -
[14]
Try doing that in a Thorax, can't even hold enough ore to make it worth the time. I think your mental calculation is a bit off. You waste a ton of time traveling to and fro, even with instas (docking/undocking time, loading time, relocking the target, etc etc).
I'd be fine doing that in a barge, but I don't have one quite yet. ------------ Elucidate - Extraordinarily Lazy Miner |
Khrystoff
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Posted - 2005.04.11 01:06:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Khrystoff on 11/04/2005 01:09:05 I just got my barge upgraded to the mid-size, and it's totally worth it.
The bottom line is,
Is security worth a pay-cut? Either way it will work out, if you mine into a can there will be many mining sessions w/o the annoyance of ore thieves, if you mine w/o the can there will never be ore thief problems.
There's no such thing as a win-win. It'd be worth your time to find a quieter system if ore thieving is a constant threat
"but my system has the best prices! i dont want to move" well yeah, why do you the ore thieves know there's easy money to be made there? stash up a sizable load and use an Indy to transport it to the high-priced systems. dont have indy skills? train them, they don't take more than a couple days and will pay for themselves in no time. There are a million ways to work around ore thieves. They're not ideal or fitting for max-profit, but like i said this was never meant to be a perfect world
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Elucidate
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Posted - 2005.04.11 01:13:00 -
[16]
I've actually never been thieved, I started out and learned even before I started that it's best to get off the "highway". I'm a halfdozen jumps from the nearest "highway" of any sorts, local rarely has more then 3 people in it. ------------ Elucidate - Extraordinarily Lazy Miner |
Skogen Gump
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Posted - 2005.04.11 02:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tenaj
Oh please, not that old chestnut again....I notice that you call EVE a MMOG. I thought the term was MMORPG. The RP stands for ROLE PLAY.
I'd just like to point this out.
For the lazy ...
Quote:
1.1 What is EVE Online?
EVE is a massive multiplayer online game (MMOG) set in a science-fiction based, persistent world. Players take the role of spaceship pilots seeking fame, fortune, and adventure in a huge, complex, exciting, and sometimes hostile galaxy.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2005.04.11 02:40:00 -
[18]
*beats dead horse over and over and over and over*
see now i saved you lot the next few threads
1. ore thives there too stay 2. we can argue abut it when ever we get bored 3. milk and cookies rock
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.04.11 07:45:00 -
[19]
Actually mining into a jet can is also an exploit. CCP never intended the cans to be used in this way. Their large holding capacity was so that indies could jet all their cargo to a pirate if they wanted to adhere to the pirates ransom demand.
However I'm guessing CCP dosn't fix it becuase the players fixed it themselves by becomming orethieves. It's as legitimate as corp thieving and scamming. Therefore work around the orethieves so CCP dosn't decide to simply ban that use of a jetcan.
As for being an extention of what someone really wants to be. Many orethieves wern't always orethieves they mined and traded and did combat. It's the exploration of another aspect of the game. Many pirates were also traders and miners and such. People like to try different things.
Ore thieving risk free? Not really. Many orethieves are in player corps. Declare war on them. If they're in a noob corp, then mine in out of the way places, mine in an industrial or do the instana bookmark thing someone suggested. There are plenty of ways to solve this issue oneself without getting the devs involved.
Unfortunately people are too used to the government stepping into their issues to solve them. A luxury not granted in EVE. One thing that is great about EVE is that you got to solve these issues yourself. CCP isn't going to step in with a ban stick and make everything better, then award you a cash settlement for your losses. EVE is an MMORPG so you're going to have to deal with interactions both positive and negitive. And like it or not you are playing a role of a miner. Is it stricktly RP like D&D RP, no. People still use RL references and the like, but genericly miners play a role of being a miner and orethieves play the role of the pirate.
The government (CCP) isn't here to make sure no one gets in each others touch bubble, so you'll have to deal with these issues on your own. Some ways have been suggested already, I suggest you make good use of them. -----------------------------------
Pulgor --- In service to Saram. Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.11 07:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: Tenaj
Oh please, not that old chestnut again....I notice that you call EVE a MMOG. I thought the term was MMORPG. The RP stands for ROLE PLAY.
I'd just like to point this out.
For the lazy ...
Quote:
1.1 What is EVE Online?
EVE is a massive multiplayer online game (MMOG) set in a science-fiction based, persistent world. Players take the
role of spaceship pilots seeking fame, fortune, and adventure in a huge, complex, exciting, and sometimes hostile galaxy.
So its an MMOG in which you play a role? --------------------------------------------------
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Skogen Gump
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Posted - 2005.04.11 08:05:00 -
[21]
I Disagree with that, I don't pretend to be my Character - I don't sit there in game thinking 'What would Skogen Gump do in this situation' ... In my thinking that means I play a game, not a role.
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WhiteSnake
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Posted - 2005.04.11 08:25:00 -
[22]
Edited by: WhiteSnake on 11/04/2005 08:26:02 Ore thieves stealing ore due to game mechanics. They cannot do it in 0.0, I have never seen an ore thief in 0.0.
If game mechanics change, and miners should be able to shoot thieves, then all those griefers will they keep playing their RP? Imho they take advantage of the current game mechanics. Its not good or bad, things are like this, for the time, deal with it.
All you have to do is to choose what you want to do and where, simple as that, every profession has its risks, just enjoy it.
And keep in mind, we are not playing sims on line
*I hate ore thieves too, but its part of the game, I remember once I was racing with one ore thief to get my ore before he does, he beat me, he took my ore, and I gave him grats and...... 500k isk for this nice race, always think possitive
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.04.11 08:38:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Unfortunately, the VAST majority of ore thieves stay in the noob corps, filtering their ill-gotten gains to their mains (to afraid to stand up and get noticed, for the most part). What I'd like to see CCP do is criminally flag anyone opening a can that doesn't belong to them - has no effect on pirates that work in low sec space.
As I said, ore-thieving has absolutely no consequences if the person stealing ore is in a noob corp. If empire space is supposedly protected, then this change only makes sense. It's equivalent to them firing on me, by ruining my gameplay time. I should be able to return the favor if they are in a noob corp.
No, you said orethieving in general has no consequences. This is incorrect, the origional poster is in a corp called Huff Techonologies. It is possible to declare on this corp and then you would beable to shoot this thief.
Now for those that are in noob corps, I would propose an alternative solution. Maybe allow wars on NPC corps. This way nobody can hide in a newb corp. Infact that'd be a neat idea because then you could attack their convoys but inversely their sentry guns would attack you should you appproach their stations. Criminally flagging someone for opening a can of space garbage dosn't really solve the problem. Kind of nullfies the need for secure containers dosn't it? -----------------------------------
Pulgor --- In service to Saram. Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.04.11 09:01:00 -
[24]
Eve may not be a role playing game in the traditional sense of the word...but its not exactly a real life simulator either...we act out out characters in a way we would not in rl..i am not dantes inferno..i do not act in the same way as he does..i act in a way i cant do in rl for a multitude of reason (and no im not a ore theive/pirate/griefer..i tend to act a bit suicidal and trigger happy in game which i obviously cant do in rl). just cause some one is a thieve/pirate in game does not mean they are terrible people in rl.
the simple answer to all the whinning about ore theives is to reduce the storage capacity of jet can. because they were not designed for people to mine for and u really dont need 27.5 km3 of storage space in them if ccp cut it down to 5 km3 thats enough space to drop loot in if you need to but will stop people minning into jet cans and force them to use secure cans. _____
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.04.11 09:12:00 -
[25]
I guess that predictably this has been pulled a little off topic. I wasn't trying to brag, I'm genuinely curious as to what motivates a miner to open fire in this way, assuming they're not just plain dumb.
I wasn't intending to do the whole ''Why can't we shoot thieves'' thing again here. This is my main char and I'm in a player corp, If you want to shoot me you know what to do. As for the argument that I must be a bad person in real life, I'm not going to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed. Does anyone have a view on my original question?
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Nelson Vandermark
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Posted - 2005.04.11 09:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Elucidate
Originally by: Pulgor Actually mining into a jet can is also an exploit. CCP never intended the cans to be used in this way. Their large holding capacity was so that indies could jet all their cargo to a pirate if they wanted to adhere to the pirates ransom demand.
However I'm guessing CCP dosn't fix it becuase the players fixed it themselves by becomming orethieves. It's as legitimate as corp thieving and scamming. Therefore work around the orethieves so CCP dosn't decide to simply ban that use of a jetcan.
As for being an extention of what someone really wants to be. Many orethieves wern't always orethieves they mined and traded and did combat. It's the exploration of another aspect of the game. Many pirates were also traders and miners and such. People like to try different things.
Ore thieving risk free? Not really. Many orethieves are in player corps. Declare war on them. If they're in a noob corp, then mine in out of the way places, mine in an industrial or do the instana bookmark thing someone suggested. There are plenty of ways to solve this issue oneself without getting the devs involved.
Unfortunately people are too used to the government stepping into their issues to solve them. A luxury not granted in EVE. One thing that is great about EVE is that you got to solve these issues yourself. CCP isn't going to step in with a ban stick and make everything better, then award you a cash settlement for your losses. EVE is an MMORPG so you're going to have to deal with interactions both positive and negitive. And like it or not you are playing a role of a miner. Is it stricktly RP like D&D RP, no. People still use RL references and the like, but genericly miners play a role of being a miner and orethieves play the role of the pirate.
The government (CCP) isn't here to make sure no one gets in each others touch bubble, so you'll have to deal with these issues on your own. Some ways have been suggested already, I suggest you make good use of them.
Unfortunately, the VAST majority of ore thieves stay in the noob corps, filtering their ill-gotten gains to their mains (to afraid to stand up and get noticed, for the most part). What I'd like to see CCP do is criminally flag anyone opening a can that doesn't belong to them - has no effect on pirates that work in low sec space.
As I said, ore-thieving has absolutely no consequences if the person stealing ore is in a noob corp. If empire space is supposedly protected, then this change only makes sense. It's equivalent to them firing on me, by ruining my gameplay time. I should be able to return the favor if they are in a noob corp.
How would you get around empire wars? when you kill the person that is a war target or he or she kills you, would open the can and be wtfpwned by concord. I don't see how that would work.
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.04.11 09:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tenaj I guess that predictably this has been pulled a little off topic. I wasn't trying to brag, I'm genuinely curious as to what motivates a miner to open fire in this way, assuming they're not just plain dumb.
I wasn't intending to do the whole ''Why can't we shoot thieves'' thing again here. This is my main char and I'm in a player corp, If you want to shoot me you know what to do. As for the argument that I must be a bad person in real life, I'm not going to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed. Does anyone have a view on my original question?
More then likely it's a reaction without thinking. "OMG Someone took stuff out of my can, kill him!" then 5 seconds later after their drones fire, "Oh right.... 0.9 space.... bye bye ship." -----------------------------------
Pulgor --- In service to Saram. Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.04.11 09:35:00 -
[28]
*checks above* Beat ya to that whole screenshot thing there, highspeed.
Now get back to mining for Daddy Ryctor!
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.04.11 10:35:00 -
[29]
to answer the original question...i think just from reading posts on ore theives it obvious why they shoot in a 0.9 system...their peed off!
and now im going to be capting obvious again..dont want u ore stolen use secure cans/mine in a team get a friend to haul for you. the only time i mine is when ive lost to much ships and need to replenish my isk! ill either 1) mine if 1.0 using a hauler with 10k carog space..slow but safe 2) mine in a system where i can use secure cans and mine into those cans..annoying but safe.
using jet cans for a purpose they were not designed for then whining that people take ur ore is stupid. if you take the proper precautions then you ore is safe. though its easy to understand why poeple get annoyed with ore thieves after spending hours mining to have the result stolen is very fustrating. but you have the tools and resources to stop it happening..use them..if you choose not to having you ore stolen of you is a risk your accepting. _____
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.04.11 10:55:00 -
[30]
Whatever happends ingame, I will not allow anyone to insult someone else on the forum.
I can't make it any clearer then that and I hope others will not respond to trolling posts or personal insults, otherwise the thread will get locked.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
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