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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country
2784
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:25:00 -
[121] - Quote
Souisa wrote:
I dont think anyone is saying the freighter doesent work. At least not if you have 800k m3, with approximately 1 billion value that you need to move. However there are situations inbetween where it is not optimal, but it is still chosen because its the only real option
So use one of the other ships more suited for the task then. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
2129
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 11:27:00 -
[122] - Quote
I can assure you that the new frigates are full of sand. |
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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
34
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:28:00 -
[123] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote:
No :) You can fit the freighter to be exactly as it is today.
To keep the cargo you will need cargo mods which reduces the tank. To keep the tank you would need to have reduced cargo. Your idea will mean freighters cannot be the same as today. Its a nerf as there are no benefits for the freighter pilot.
Freighters primary defence is their buffer tank. There are already modules in-game that freighter pilots can use to build m3 without hurting their buffer.
Btw. o/ Soundwave. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2784
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:33:00 -
[124] - Quote
Souisa wrote:
There are already modules in-game that freighter pilots can use to build m3 without hurting their buffer.
This should be good. Name them. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
34
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:35:00 -
[125] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote:
There are already modules in-game that freighter pilots can use to build m3 without hurting their buffer.
This should be good. Name them.
I think there is a rig that increases m3 but reduces armor |
baltec1
Bat Country
2784
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:52:00 -
[126] - Quote
Souisa wrote:
I think there is a rig that increases m3 but reduces armor
So in short, there isnt.
So you are going to give freighter pilots a worse ship in order to fix what exactly? It cant be choice seeing how we have 29 dedicated ships to chose from.
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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
34
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:53:00 -
[127] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote:
I think there is a rig that increases m3 but reduces armor
So in short, there isnt. So you are going to give freighter pilots a worse ship in order to fix what exactly? It cant be choice seeing how we have 29 dedicated ships to chose from.
Wait what? |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
77
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:59:00 -
[128] - Quote
To OP, So you want green pod instead of standard one then? Freighters are designed for one purpose, move large volumes of stuff.. Its not ship meant for battle, so it has no fittings options. Want something stronger? Try Orca and you can fit some tank as well.
Not going to say anything about new ships, havent tested them myself on test server yet.. So cant say are they good or bad...
But dont worry, sand box will get little bit bigger soon enough once ccp gets current work load cleared. [Insert something funny or smart here] |
baltec1
Bat Country
2784
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Posted - 2012.11.13 12:28:00 -
[129] - Quote
Souisa wrote:
Let me spell it out for you then
3 Cargohold optimisation rigs will probably be the most used. This ensures optimal M3 for the freighter. It takes a hit to the armor HP but it doesent really matter since its buffer lies in the hull. The low slots can then be used to choose between agility, more m3 or better buffer. Regardless of what is chosen it will impact the ship in a negative way, of course. But thats not to say the the slower better tanked freighter will be better than the faster one or vice versa. It all depends on the circimstances
So you want to nerf a set of ships which are working perfectly fine for no good reason. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
34
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Posted - 2012.11.13 12:29:00 -
[130] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote:
Let me spell it out for you then
3 Cargohold optimisation rigs will probably be the most used. This ensures optimal M3 for the freighter. It takes a hit to the armor HP but it doesent really matter since its buffer lies in the hull. The low slots can then be used to choose between agility, more m3 or better buffer. Regardless of what is chosen it will impact the ship in a negative way, of course. But thats not to say the the slower better tanked freighter will be better than the faster one or vice versa. It all depends on the circimstances
So you want to nerf a set of ships which are working perfectly fine for no good reason.
Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf |
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baltec1
Bat Country
2784
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Posted - 2012.11.13 12:38:00 -
[131] - Quote
Souisa wrote: Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf
A ship that does the same job only worse is not a more versatile ship. |
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
11
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Posted - 2012.11.13 13:05:00 -
[132] - Quote
The OP also thinks that warp core stabilizers should have no penalty associated with their use & that contracts should be Universe wide not just region.
But back on topic. This is actually a duplicate thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166669). The OP already posted his view over in the Features & Ideas area and having lost the argument over there appears to have taken it up here.
Most interesting was that over in his 1st thread he started with "I hate align time of my orca, and i hear its even worse on freighters". So it appears that the OP doesn't even fly a freighter. |
Solid Rock
Under Heavy Fire Mordus Angels
5
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Posted - 2012.11.13 13:13:00 -
[133] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote: Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf
A ship that does the same job only worse is not a more versatile ship.
If CCP applied themselves to it I am sure you could modulize freighters without nerfing them too badly. But doing so would diminish the diversityof our ship lineup. Each freighter is clearly designed to fill a specific role, they are the epitome of specialty tools starkly contrasting the usual.
Even if making freighters modular does not diminish their efficiency it would make the game more bland and uniform. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10308
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 13:28:00 -
[134] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf Too bad it doesn't make them any more versatile GÇö it only makes them worse at what they're supposed to do.
If all you're after is more HP and less cargo, then might I suggest a Jump Freighter or an Orca? If all you're after is faster warping, again at the cost of cargo space, then might I suggest the same? If all you're after is more cargo, then you can't have it because it would break the 1M m-¦ limit GÇö the Freighter is already your ship of choice.
The versatility you're asking for is already in the game. You just refuse to choose. Instead, you are asking for a nerf to a ship that is already perfectly suited for its role for absolutely no sane reason whatsoever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
36
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 14:17:00 -
[135] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote: Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf
A ship that does the same job only worse is not a more versatile ship.
That doesent really make sense. If you lack fitting skills you can always use battle-clinic or other sites like that, or ask in-game for proper freighter fits when the time comes |
baltec1
Bat Country
2786
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
Souisa wrote: That doesent really make sense. If you lack fitting skills you can always use battle-clinic or other sites like that, or ask in-game for proper freighter fits when the time comes
Only it would be impossible to do. You would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
36
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:23:00 -
[137] - Quote
Thats not true. Rigs expand cargo space, at the expense of armor. Freighters main tank or buffer lies in the hull |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1006
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:24:00 -
[138] - Quote
It's been brought up plenty of times & this will always remain true. Give freighters slots & people will just use them to expand their cargohold further.
You could give a freighter a Revelation-like tank & they would still be profitable to gank. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
303
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:31:00 -
[139] - Quote
There are several way to make a freighter more resilient.
They are called skills, hard-wirings, boosters and friends.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10308
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:32:00 -
[140] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Thats not true. Rigs expand cargo space, at the expense of armor. Freighters main tank or buffer lies in the hull So in other words, what he said was exactly true: you would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason.
Just because you've shifted from lowslots to rigs does not mean the problem has gone away: they would still have to have their cargo space reduced to compensate for the availability of cargo rigs.
Thus, baseline, they would have the same HP and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse. Add in cargo rigs and they would have less HP and the same cargo as they have now GÇö worse. Add in armour rigs and they would have a bit more HP, but with slower speeds and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse.
This is not rocket surgery and it doesn't matter how often and how hard you ignore this basic restriction on freighters: no matter what you do, they would have to be nerfed GÇö massively GÇö if they were given fitting abilities, and the stuff you could fit on them would, at best, only bring them up to their current level, making the whole exercise completely meaningless.
You are asking them to nerf freighters for no good reason. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1009
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:33:00 -
[141] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:There are several way to make a freighter more resilient.
They are called skills, hard-wirings, boosters and friends.
The best way to make it more resilient is to double wrap your stuff or use a JF to jump your stuff to Amarr lowsec if travelling from Jita , avoiding popular freighter ganking systems entirely. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
baltec1
Bat Country
2787
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 14:56:00 -
[142] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:There are several way to make a freighter more resilient.
They are called skills, hard-wirings, boosters and friends.
The best way to make it more resilient is to double wrap your stuff or use a JF to jump your stuff to Amarr lowsec if travelling from Jita , avoiding popular freighter ganking systems entirely.
Or, and this is madness I know, you could not stuff 20 billion into the hold. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
36
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Posted - 2012.11.13 15:05:00 -
[143] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Souisa wrote:Thats not true. Rigs expand cargo space, at the expense of armor. Freighters main tank or buffer lies in the hull So in other words, what he said was exactly true: you would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason. Just because you've shifted from lowslots to rigs does not mean the problem has gone away: they would still have to have their cargo space reduced to compensate for the availability of cargo rigs. Thus, baseline, they would have the same HP and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse. Add in cargo rigs and they would have less HP and the same cargo as they have now GÇö worse. Add in armour rigs and they would have a bit more HP, but with slower speeds and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse. This is not rocket surgery and it doesn't matter how often and how hard you ignore this basic restriction on freighters: no matter what you do, they would have to be nerfed GÇö massively GÇö if they were given fitting abilities, and the stuff you could fit on them would, at best, only bring them up to their current level, making the whole exercise completely meaningless. You are asking them to nerf freighters for no good reason.
What makes you think it will become worse of? Like i said if you dont have the skills to fit ships just look it up on battle-clinic or ask in-game im sure someone will help. But basically if you need 200k EHP you need to use reinforced bulkheads or a dcu, or both. I dont think its right the freighter comes prepacked with that kind of tank, it has to be up to the player wether he wants it or not
And you are asking for a reason. The freighter basically does every job equally bad except for one, which is hauling 800k m3, worth approx. 1 billion. This is due to the buffer tank it has by default and the insane cargo bay it has by default. But think of all the other scenarios there are. Let me list a few.
Haul 800k m3 30 jumps, go back empty Haul 400k m3 1 jump and 230 AU total Haul 400k m3, worth 2 billion, 10 jumps Haul 130k m3 30 jumps And many more
The freighter doesent really do any of those well, but it can do it. With fits, it can be equally good at each. Basically its not being nerfed, its not even being buffed, its just becomming a ship that players can better utilize |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1011
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 15:17:00 -
[144] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Basically its not being nerfed, its not even being buffed, its just becomming a ship that players can better utilize
Except people won't utilise it better as it already performs it's role as a large scale hauler perfectly. You can try & make it sound however you want, but we all know that this subject is only being brought up because people are losing freighters in highsec. You want to be able to fit a larger tank on them which ultimately won't do a thing against freighter ganking because freighter pilots make themselves profitable targets regardless.
Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
36
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Posted - 2012.11.13 15:19:00 -
[145] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Souisa wrote:Basically its not being nerfed, its not even being buffed, its just becomming a ship that players can better utilize Except people won't utilise it better as it already performs it's role as a large scale hauler perfectly. You can try & make it sound however you want, but we all know that this subject is only being brought up because people are losing freighters in highsec. You want to be able to fit a larger tank on them which ultimately won't do a thing against freighter ganking because freighter pilots make themselves profitable targets regardless.
I think i have been pretty clear in why i bring up this topic :) |
baltec1
Bat Country
2788
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 16:03:00 -
[146] - Quote
Souisa wrote:
What makes you think it will become worse of?
The fact that I would have to do two trips for every one I do now no matter how I fit it. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
36
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Posted - 2012.11.13 16:17:00 -
[147] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote:
What makes you think it will become worse of?
The fact that I would have to do two trips for every one I do now no matter how I fit it.
Well like i said, you fit 3 cargohold optmimization rigs and you will be able to transport about the same as you would now |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1014
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 16:19:00 -
[148] - Quote
Souisa wrote:baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote:
What makes you think it will become worse of?
The fact that I would have to do two trips for every one I do now no matter how I fit it. Well like i said, you fit 3 cargohold optmimization rigs and you will be able to transport about the same as you would now
Therefore making the change entirely pointless as people would do this anyway. What possible other uses for a giant cargohold with an engine attached can you possibly think of?
Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
36
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Posted - 2012.11.13 16:20:00 -
[149] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Souisa wrote:baltec1 wrote:Souisa wrote:
What makes you think it will become worse of?
The fact that I would have to do two trips for every one I do now no matter how I fit it. Well like i said, you fit 3 cargohold optmimization rigs and you will be able to transport about the same as you would now Therefore making the change entirely pointless as people would do this anyway. What possible other uses for a giant cargohold with an engine attached can you possibly think of?
He wanted to transport as much as the current freighter can, and he can still do this. However it can be fitted to transport less but be faster or more tanky as well |
baltec1
Bat Country
2788
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Posted - 2012.11.13 17:06:00 -
[150] - Quote
Souisa wrote:
He was saying that he wouldnt be able to transport the same amount of m3 as he use to. I have no idea why he says this. Its a non issue since the freighter should have the same m3 with 3 cargohold optimisiations. That will take it back to its current status, except it needs a little buffer. This is done with a DCU or Reinforced bulkheads or both. However there are other situations where niether buffer nor 860k M3 is needed where speed is preferred instead. Go ahead and fit whatever speed mods you like then.
In order to have my current cargo all of those slots would have to be filled with cargo expanders because the base cargo would have been nerfed. This means my tank is now massivly reduced so I cannot carry as much of my cargo in one trip.
No matter how you do this freighters will be much worse off. |
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