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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
346
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Posted - 2012.11.14 13:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
There a bunch of things that are rather annoying about how modules work.
1) Module lag - the activation circle on your computer bears only a passing relation to the one on the servers. This leads right into
2) Heating lag - because the activation times dont match up, its a crap shoot on if you can get your next cycle to heat, or to stop heating. This could be fixed by fixing 1) or by letting us heat and unheat modules mid cycle
3) Cant heat while cloaked and/or jumping a gate resets heat state. When you jump into a gatecamp, you want to heat your mwd to get back to gate. Because of 1) and 2), you sometimes can, sometimes cannot. Allowing us to heat modules while cloaked (and take drugs while cloaked), would fix this, even if 1) and 2) remain unfixed.
4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc)
5) If you want to load a new ammo after finishing the current group, you have to either pause on 1 shot left, or reload twice or fiddle with autoreload settings. Allow queueing up of reloading by letting us tell the gun to reload while it is firing, and making that understood as "empty this current clip, and then load the selected ammo."
6) When you toggle a module off, you cant tell it to toggle on until the cycle finishes. Because of 1) this often means your module turns off for a few seconds. Allow us to tell a module that is red (ie, it will shut off after the current cycle) "No, i actually want you to stay on, go back to green."
2), 3) and 6) all really are caused by 1), but they can each be fixed independently. I presume 1) is hard to fix (even if it would be a really worthwhile thing to spend time on), which is why I listed them separately. |
Iris Bravemount
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
169
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Posted - 2012.11.14 13:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:There a bunch of things that are rather annoying about how modules work.
1) Module lag - the activation circle on your computer bears only a passing relation to the one on the servers. This leads right into
2) Heating lag - because the activation times dont match up, its a crap shoot on if you can get your next cycle to heat, or to stop heating. This could be fixed by fixing 1) or by letting us heat and unheat modules mid cycle
3) Cant heat while cloaked and/or jumping a gate resets heat state. When you jump into a gatecamp, you want to heat your mwd to get back to gate. Because of 1) and 2), you sometimes can, sometimes cannot. Allowing us to heat modules while cloaked (and take drugs while cloaked), would fix this, even if 1) and 2) remain unfixed.
4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc)
5) If you want to load a new ammo after finishing the current group, you have to either pause on 1 shot left, or reload twice or fiddle with autoreload settings. Allow queueing up of reloading by letting us tell the gun to reload while it is firing, and making that understood as "empty this current clip, and then load the selected ammo."
6) When you toggle a module off, you cant tell it to toggle on until the cycle finishes. Because of 1) this often means your module turns off for a few seconds. Allow us to tell a module that is red (ie, it will shut off after the current cycle) "No, i actually want you to stay on, go back to green."
2), 3) and 6) all really are caused by 1), but they can each be fixed independently. I presume 1) is hard to fix (even if it would be a really worthwhile thing to spend time on), which is why I listed them separately.
Very good points. I support everything accross the board.
Why active tank bonuses are bad for you |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
347
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Posted - 2012.11.14 13:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Added a little more |
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
35
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Posted - 2012.11.14 14:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
+7 ( 1 for each point )
Al very good ideas / suggestions, I very much like the idea of queuing the next ammo reload. |
Olerie Viliana
Devicron
1
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
I support this whole heartedly, maybe your UI teams time would be better spent making sure the basic functions of flying your ship actually functions properly instead of makeing squares into circles.
Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.
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Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
347
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Olerie Viliana wrote:
Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.
This is caused by landing out of docking range, its not really an interface error. You can get around this by having safes 0m away from stations you dock at. |
Olerie Viliana
Devicron
1
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Olerie Viliana wrote:
Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.
This is caused by landing out of docking range, its not really an interface error. You can get around this by having safes 0m away from stations you dock at.
Whats particularly annoying about it is when I have to leave my computer for whatever reason, and I select dock. It auto warps to the station and docks, (some times however, it just warps and you sit there on 0 with the station)
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Sofia Wolf
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
71
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1 |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
350
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Posted - 2012.11.15 21:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
bump |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1148
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Posted - 2012.11.15 23:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
very good points covers basically all major issues with the system.
reloading could be handled better by allowing reloding while the module is activated. The server would just enqueue the instruction and start the reload at the end of the current cycle. After it has been reloaded the module will start running again. This would fix all the stop/reload/start issues. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech Adult Entertainment Alliance
33
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Posted - 2012.11.16 01:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also, allowing guns/turrets to resume firing after an auto reload. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
260
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Posted - 2012.11.16 02:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1 to all of the above. I'd suggest adding these two as well:
1. At times a module (usually the prop mod or guns) will get 'stuck' in its current state. This means you can't turn your guns off (usually it's off) and you can't turn your MWD on. The current work around is to drag the module to another button on your overview, but it shouldn't need a work around.
2. When jumping into a ship, (especially T3s) I often get half the modules simply offline because they were loaded before a subsystem or fitting mod that supplies the needed CPU/PG to run the modules. This means that almost every time I get into a ship coming out of an SMA, or jump into a T3 in a station, I then have to go and turn all the modules back on.
Both of these issues are quite annoying. |
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2012.11.16 16:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Good points. Hopefully we will see these addressed soon! |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
353
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Posted - 2012.11.17 04:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
bump |
Olerie Viliana
Devicron
2
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Posted - 2012.11.21 12:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
bump |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2438
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Posted - 2012.11.21 12:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Some very good ideas. You're right that some of them are connected to #1 and that #1 is a tricky technical issue, but we have some smart people thinking about that problem. #3 is actually something we looked at for Retri but hit a blocker for now.
Some, like #6 and #7, may potentially be more standalone. I'll poke CCP Karkur since that kind of stuff is one of her specialties. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
939
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Posted - 2012.11.21 15:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc.
CRAP CRAP CRAP!
Why must people point me to threads about this kind of thing. Better yet why must you people make so much sense. ARG!
FINE! Be that way. No really, I never really noticed this before but now it is really hurting my brain.
While I cannot of course comment on when, or if, this will ever be done, I can tell you it is hurting my brain. Thanks for that by the way. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
432
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Posted - 2012.11.21 15:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
i am so sorry :D |
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
47
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Michael Harari wrote:4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc. CRAP CRAP CRAP! Why must people point me to threads about this kind of thing. Better yet why must you people make so much sense. ARG! FINE! Be that way. No really, I never really noticed this before but now it is really hurting my brain. While I cannot of course comment on when, or if, this will ever be done, I can tell you it is hurting my brain. Thanks for that by the way. OCD can be a pain, but I gotta say, I'm very thankful for yours (even if I also pity you for it, occasionally). :D |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1178
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
module cycle timing is not *that* important if you find good workarounds for most common usecases. e.g changing charges during the fight. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
955
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have been thinking about this some more, specifically the point I commented on above; #4 about renaming ammunition.
This would drastically change how the inventory is sorted in your hanger as well. It seems like it would still be for the better but just wanted to raise that point and maybe talk about it.
With the way ammo is organized it would still be regular ammo followed by faction ammo. Assuming you sorted your inventory by type. Sorted by name we would get the desired result of EMP L followed by all of its variations. Faction ammo is kind of considered to be a different type though and so would still be segmented when sorting by type...
Hmmm this needs some thinking. Maybe if this is done right we can get rid of those damn stupid market categories (advanced, faction, standard ammo) and go with something like what we do with faction modules. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Cid Tazer
The Green Cross Against ALL Anomalies
7
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
What annoys me with the ammo list is that depending on what you have loaded, the order may change drastically as well. (In my experience, I have only noticed this with laser crystals but it may effect other ammo too) |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
15
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Posted - 2012.11.21 19:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:Faction ammo is kind of considered to be a different type though By whom? Faction EMP ammo usually has the exact same ratio of different damage types and range modifiers as non-faction EMP ammo, for instance. Thus, it would always be used in exactly the same situations as non-faction EMP ammo, against the same types of opponents. There is no obvious practical reason to consider it as a "different type" of ammo instead of just a fancier variation of the same type. I don't see why any actual combat pilots would think of it in such a way, or appreciate it being sorted as a different type. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
365
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Posted - 2012.11.21 19:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:module cycle timing is not *that* important if you find good workarounds for most common usecases. e.g changing charges during the fight.
This is very much untrue. Frigate fights for example are often decided pretty much entirely by mwd heat timings. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
969
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Posted - 2012.11.21 20:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Quote:Faction ammo is kind of considered to be a different type though By whom? Faction EMP ammo usually has the exact same ratio of different damage types and range modifiers as non-faction EMP ammo, for instance. Thus, it would always be used in exactly the same situations as non-faction EMP ammo, against the same types of opponents. There is no obvious practical reason to consider it as a "different type" of ammo instead of just a fancier variation of the same type. I don't see why any actual combat pilots would think of it in such a way, or appreciate it being sorted as a different type.
By whom? The system behind the scenes... it is really dumb and I don't understand. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
524
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:By whom? The system behind the scenes... it is really dumb and I don't understand.
It's probably a bigger change than you're looking for, but IMO the best solution to this would be to use logical grouping based on the same structure as the variations tab, or otherwise add a parentTypeID field to invtypes.
EMP L + Arch Angel EMP L + Domination EMP L + Republic Fleet EMP L
Fusion L + Arch Angel Fusion L + Domination Fusion L + Republic Fleet Fusion L
Obviously spamming lots of new invmarketgroups is not ideal (8 per ammo size for projectiles to name just one type) but if you could order all the types of EMP under the normal EMP using only visual cosmetic adjustments (prefix them with a +) then that should work nicely enough.
The reason I suggest this over module market groups is the top level "EMP" would still be clickable to get to that selection in the market details. The downside is you would need to sort by a hidden text field associated with each row, otherwise a plain text comparison would order all of the + prefixed "faction" types below the normal ones which defeats the purpose.
Summary:
* Certain market groups flagged as sorting via parent IDs.
* Ammo types are listed as their T1 variants with prefixed names coming directly underneith.
* Sort order of concat (ParentName or ActualName) + token + ActualName so the shorter "EMP L:" would come before "EMP L:Republic Fleet EMP L".
IMO such things as ammunition would really do from a seperate interface for browsing them, something which shows their damage types / ranges, similar to what EVE HQ does in its fitting tool. Then throw in a right click weapon > show ammunition types. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
367
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Posted - 2012.11.21 22:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
another thing that it would help is when looking for ammo in the market, there isnt any way to pull up all the small projectile ammos. For hybrids, you can type "charge s" and it comes up with all variants of small t1 hybrid ammo incuding faction, but because projectiles are fleet emp s, fleet fusion s, etc, you cant do that |
Xercodo
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1461
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:
EMP L + Arch Angel EMP L + Domination EMP L + Republic Fleet EMP L
Fusion L + Arch Angel Fusion L + Domination Fusion L + Republic Fleet Fusion L
The weird thing this made me think of, though, is that T2 ammo dont fit into the naming convention that easily. You end up with T2 ultraviolet and T2 xray, T2 MF, and T2 Radio, but no other T2 variarions
Should T2 ammo remain separate? Perhaps in it's own section like we have faction, officer and deadspace now. But all medium T2 ammos for that type, so that scorch, conflag, gleam and aurora would all be in one section?
....no that'd confuse newbs into thinking that all 4 T2 types work in all guns....I guess you still need the distinction (since we certainly cant trust them to read the description of the ammos and the guns that can fit them no can we?)
The Drake is a Lie |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
57
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Olerie Viliana wrote:I support this whole heartedly, maybe your UI teams time would be better spent making sure the basic functions of flying your ship actually functions properly instead of makeing squares into circles.
Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.
I would also like to mention that sometimes the problem with the module lag is so bad, it is almost an entire cycle off. Meaning when I tell an active mod to deactivate, I have to wait almost another full cycles worth of time before I can reactivate (or do anything with it) because the green bar makes almost another entire cycle for no reason.
this happens to me 100% of the time i select dock and alt tab before i land at station. it never happens if i keep the docking char on screen. distance is irrelevant as far as ive seen. |
Kim Dested
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.11.27 19:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Since we're talking about module behavior, how about we make the pilot able to run something N times? For instance, you have a fit where you know you can run your shield booster for about 2 minutes before it runs out. You currently have two choices: 1) Set autorepeat off. Then you have to pay REAL close attention to shields, and turn that thing on all the time. 2) Set autorepeat on, which means that if you get busy with targetting/other alts, you run out of cap. There goes even your warp ability.
What I'd love to do is be able to click on that shield, and have 3-4 presets, maybe 5, 10 or 20 cycles? Obviously, if I got to control those per module, that would be even better. |
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