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Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
48
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Right now all the black ops battleships are a joke. They cost about a billion simply for the hull, their combnat effectiveness is semi effective at best (Being nice here) and their jump range is total crap.
Their range should be increased to at least the range of Titan bridges and lower the fuel cost. After all the only thing you are jumping through is bombers, and recon ships, b oth of which are paper thin for the most part. Tis plays into the role of "behind enemy lines operations." As it stands you are faster to just jump the systems rather than set up a jump chain to blops with.
Next, Blops should be able to fit on a cov ops shield and let them warp cloaked. Keep their cloak speed bonus and make them viable ships beyond just jumping over a buddle as a quirky joke. |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Soldiers Of New Eve
5
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
i agre. black ops are a kewl idea, but their range and usefulness is a huge factor. my redeemer is kewl as hell. the thought of being able to jump behind a bubble and bomb whats on the other side is "neet" but they should be able to span SEVERAL systems to reach that big kill.
keep the same fuel cost, but give us a ton of range since, as you said, the poo we are flingin is paper thin. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
713
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Black Ops need love, no doubt.
+1 Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
342
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Posted - 2012.11.14 22:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1
Black Ops need a more defined role, either focus them on there ability to bridge and give them bonuses to range and fuel usage or spec them more towards the combat role. Right now they are trying to do both and failing hard. MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
350
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Posted - 2012.11.14 22:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Black ops need love, in their current form they are almost only used by the most risk averse of blobbers and gatecampers. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1113
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Posted - 2012.11.14 22:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Supporting. Range and fuel consumption are the biggest problems with them. I don't even care all that much about their "combat effectiveness." Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
29
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Posted - 2012.11.14 22:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
+1 |
Anemone221
Invictus Incendia
1
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Posted - 2012.11.14 23:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9 |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
144
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Posted - 2012.11.14 23:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
As a proud owner of a widow:
Honestly, I think they're pretty good as-is. Covops cloak would make them OP, as would i think significantly increased jump range.
Having them uncommon means that people don't expect them nearly as much, as if they had huge jump range, could warp cloaked, and were better combat ships than their t1 counterparts.
The fact that they cost 800m or so for the hull really means nothing. COST IS NOT A BALANCING FACTOR!
That said, the blops has fuel issues. They either need a significantly larger fuel bay, or a fuel consumption bonus. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
722
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Posted - 2012.11.14 23:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Anemone221 wrote:AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9 Seriously, I would give them the same range as a carrier. I see no reason for them to not have this.
They simply have no real threat to the carrier's role, so no duplication: They cannot carry the same cargo. They cannot bridge anything but CovOps capable ships. Defensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination. Offensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
796
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Posted - 2012.11.15 00:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Anemone221 wrote:AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9 Seriously, I would give them the same range as a carrier. I see no reason for them to not have this. They simply have no real threat to the carrier's role, so no duplication: They cannot carry the same cargo. They cannot bridge anything but CovOps capable ships. Defensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination. Offensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination.
Dread range, maybe. They are a lot smaller than caps don't forget. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
54
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Posted - 2012.11.15 00:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Anemone221 wrote:AGREED give my widow some love i would love to make it where i can bridge from jita to a system in heimitar with only 3 or 4 bridges instead of 8 or 9 Seriously, I would give them the same range as a carrier. I see no reason for them to not have this. They simply have no real threat to the carrier's role, so no duplication: They cannot carry the same cargo. They cannot bridge anything but CovOps capable ships. Defensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination. Offensively, they are not comparable to carriers in anyone's imagination. Dread range, maybe. They are a lot smaller than caps don't forget.
But you're only moving frigs and cruisers, and a very distinct type. Extended range would give them the ability to fulfill the role they were set out to do.
I still think that they should also have some damage potential as well. Without that, they're just glorified jumpbridges. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
796
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Posted - 2012.11.15 01:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
But you're only moving frigs and cruisers, and a very distinct type. Extended range would give them the ability to fulfill the role they were set out to do.
I still think that they should also have some damage potential as well. Without that, they're just glorified jumpbridges.
looking at the numbers, a JDC 5 blackops can go 4.5 light years. a JDC 5 dread can go 11, a carrier, 14. A titan, 7.8
I think titan range would be fair, don't you? Same range as a non covert bridge isn't too bad.
Definitely agree on the damage potential though. poor things shouldn't be weaker than thier T1 counterparts. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
54
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Posted - 2012.11.15 01:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Honestly I think it should have the greatest range of any ship. A small irregular force should have a better way to project itself deep in enemy territory, than a main invading force. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
260
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Posted - 2012.11.15 01:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Im ok with them being less combat capable than there t1 counterparts, as they should be able to fit a covert ops cloak. Extra jump range would be great if it were a bonus from the black ops skill, say 10%/level Ideas for Drone Improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1658683#post1658683 Updated 10/10/12 |
Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
58
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Posted - 2012.11.17 19:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Im ok with them being less combat capable than there t1 counterparts, as they should be able to fit a covert ops cloak. Extra jump range would be great if it were a bonus from the black ops skill, say 10%/level
Yeah they don't need to be on par with the T1 variant, but they should be able to get into a fight and still be a decent enough DPS boat to make it worth while.
Their jump range just needs to be fixed, IMO needs to be highest of all. |
Anna niedostepny
Vengance Inc.
0
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Posted - 2012.11.17 19:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Black ops should get a .5-1.0 LY extension . I am fine with combat capabilities of the BLOPS as they can defend them selves well enough with a fleet with them. I would say the fuel consumption is a bit extreme. I can bridge a BLOPS through my BLOPS though.... Not practical application but it can hold enough fuel to bridge a BLOPS and about 6-7 bombers.
Just a thought. A long jump range means that it would be a huge module IMO. I just don't feel a BS should have the range. .5-1 LY is sufficient as it is interesting to be creative with staging systems and not be able you be like a carrier and go any where and everywhere. |
General Sadistis
The Lost Boys. BOHICANS
5
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Posted - 2012.11.17 19:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
In B4 Fucks Given
On a more serious note i completely endorse this product.
black ops AKA Pigs are called Pigs for a reason... completely useless beyond being a bridge |
Captain CarlCosmogasm
Cosmogasm
4
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Posted - 2012.11.17 19:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
I like the Blops as is. It is a battleship with a capital class capability and is groovy with a cloak. I dig the cloaked speed bonus the blops currently has. I find the request to enhance the combat capability of the class unreasonable. I am satisfied with the current jump range, however increasing the blops range isn't unreasonable.
While we are at it, I suggest that the blops stays as is and the marauder receive a sensor strength boost along with a jump drive with a range comparable to the blops.
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Cahvus
Confederated Armed Traders High Rollers
25
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Posted - 2012.11.17 20:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
HUGE +1 for BlOp's Overhaul. The concept is soooo awesome, yet the implementation is rather sub-par
Hopefully the devs can do a nice little passthrough after Retribution! |
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
344
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Posted - 2012.11.17 20:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cahvus wrote:HUGE +1 for BlOp's Overhaul. The concept is soooo awesome, yet the implementation is rather sub-par Hopefully the devs can do a nice little passthrough after Retribution!
The sooner the better. MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
Konrad Kane
20
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Posted - 2012.11.17 22:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't agree with increasing the bridging range to that of a titan, I'd honestly prefer titan range reduced. They do need love, but with careful thought. |
Xanth Eridani
Confederated Armed Traders High Rollers
0
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Posted - 2012.11.17 23:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Konrad Kane wrote:I don't agree with increasing the bridging range to that of a titan, I'd honestly prefer titan range reduced. They do need love, but with careful thought.
Any particular reason why? Seems a shame to not back this up with some reasoning..
I think their jump range needs to be significantly increased, I look at the blogs battleship as a subarine able to infiltrate deeply into enemy territory and do it covertly so.
I don't think the damage dealing potential needs to be upgraded if it gets a jump range increase, but something needs to be done one way or another IMO.
Covops cloak on a battleship would be freaking insane and as much as I'd like to see it, I can see ten uproar from this idea being implemented giving the "anti cloak" brigade enough ammunition to get the cloaks permanently nerfed.
+1 |
Laurence Pinkitin
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.11.18 00:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:As a proud owner of a widow:
The fact that they cost 800m or so for the hull really means nothing. COST IS NOT A BALANCING FACTOR!
Cost/Performance ratio. For 800m you should be getting more out of the ship. |
Konrad Kane
20
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Posted - 2012.11.18 01:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xanth Eridani wrote:Konrad Kane wrote:I don't agree with increasing the bridging range to that of a titan, I'd honestly prefer titan range reduced. Any particular reason why? Seems a shame to not back this up with some reasoning.. 1
I didn't want to go into it because I didn't want to derail the thread. The reason I'd like to see titan bridge range nerfed is because I believe the power projection that it allows isn't healthy for the game. With good planning a good blops team can cover a significant range without hitting the easy button :) It's purely a personal opinion.
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Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
62
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Posted - 2012.11.18 01:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Giving the blops bridge range a dramatic increase, is balanced by the simple fact that the only thing you are sending through, are stealth bombers and cloaky cruisers. A titan can bridge in anything. So you cannot compare the two. There's really no reason why blops range increase would be game breaking. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
837
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Posted - 2012.11.18 09:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
lol @ people expecting a pure ganking risk-free tool to be competative combat-wise with pure combat ships
Jump range and/or fuel stuff are the only things you might get increased. 14 |
Jayne Fillon
Aeternam Tenebris
0
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Posted - 2012.11.18 17:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1
Blops is just too specialized, jump range too low, fuel cost too high, and combat effectiveness nigh laughable. |
CaptainFalcon07
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
43
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Posted - 2012.11.19 21:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Blops use too much fuel, they take 200 times more fuel to jump the same recon at a shorter range than titans. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1127
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Posted - 2012.11.19 21:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Laurence Pinkitin wrote:Kitt JT wrote:As a proud owner of a widow:
The fact that they cost 800m or so for the hull really means nothing. COST IS NOT A BALANCING FACTOR!
Cost/Performance ratio. For 800m you should be getting more out of the ship. Say that to a Titan pilot. For 80 billion you get a massive e-peen that is only good for jump bridging and the rare drive-by-doomsday of a carrier. It can't dock, it is useless against subcapitals, and has no point defense outside of smartbombs. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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