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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think CCP intended the changes to the bounty system to be used as "pay back" for people that do bad things in game. Mess with me, I'll put a bounty on you.
I highly suspect, it will end up as the exact opposite.
Two flaws: 1) lot of the high sec ganking is done on throw away toons. It takes very little training to get into a DPS destroyer... The bounties will do little if placed on a throw away toon.
2) Just as war dec's are used by PVP corps to blackmail industrial corps, I suspect the new bounty system is going to be used much the same.
Because of the 20% payout, you have to lose 5x as much in ships as the bounty that is put on you. So, I see PVP corps blackmailing industrial corps like this: "Pay me 100 million a week, or I'll put 100 million a week bounty on you. It is cheaper to pay me the 100 million ISK than to lose 500 million ISK in ships to bounty hunters."
The response, of course, from the industrialists will be to simply create a new corp (if it is corp bounties they are getting hit with) or let their accounts unsub for the length of time that it takes for the bounties to go away. This mass "unsub", of course, CCP is not going to ignore.
In short, players are not going to use the system as intended. It is going to cause much grief amongst the carebear community that constitutes a HUGE chunk of CCPs paid accounts (revenue). Therefore, big changes will be made to the new bounty system fairly quickly after implementation. Then, the people that misused the bounty system to grief carebears will be all whiny about how we're nerfing the game again.
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Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
444
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
lol. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
447
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Two flaws: 1) lot of the high sec ganking is done on throw away toons. It takes very little training to get into a DPS destroyer... The bounties will do little if placed on a throw away toon.
Cool.
Throw away "toons" are against the rules so anyone you know cycling "toons" like this should be reported.
Having a "ganking toon" seperate to your main isn't agaisnt the rules. How is it any different from having a "PI Toon" or even a "mining toon"?
Quote:2) Just as war dec's are used by PVP corps to blackmail industrial corps, I suspect the new bounty system is going to be used much the same.
I fail to see where the problem lies with this.
"Oh no! People are using tools to play a game against other people!"
High Sec isn't a complete safe haven (yet). Plus if someone puts a 100 mil bounty on my corp and it was small I'd be like "lol k", disband the corp and form a new one. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: I fail to see where the problem lies with this.
Then read the OP again as I clearly lay it out.
Hint: CCP REVENUE!
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
43
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Putting a bounty on a high sec corp isn't all that useful for a griefer corp. Bounties do not grant killrights, so you could only collect on a bounty by suicide ganking players unless they have shot somebody else (unlikely for members of a HS indy corp) who was kind enough to put the kill rights on the open market, leave High Sec (see: HS indy corp), or your corp is at war with theirs.
Now, while I can see there being bounty hunting corporations eventually forming that will go to war with a corp with a high enough bounty, the griefer corp going to war directly would probably be easier (and the reason most griefers grief is because real PvP takes work and has a risk).
That said, I do see this as a good way of incentivising mercenaries to attack an indy corp on their rival indy corps's behalf. It might also serve as a way to reward members of a PvP corp for their actions in killing that corp's target (don't rat for the money to replace your ships PigsRUS, whom we are at war with have a nice payout on their ships) |
baltec1
Bat Country
2805
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Hint: CCP REVENUE!
Will not be hurt when we blow up peoples badly fitted ships. The bountry system isnt ment for just one type of person out there.
Winter is coming. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
151
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
And your problem is... what exactly? That CCP will give us tools and we (of course) will try to stab other players with them instead of using them "properly"? And there won't be anything like mass unsub because carebears lack of backbone to follow their threats and promises of revenge. Whoever survived hulkageddon, Burn Jita and such events will continue to play. Those who unsubbed because of it won't be missed. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
256
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
People who gank for lols or for a cause aren't going to stop. The bounty system won't give a profit motive to the gankers as it will still be unprofitable to kill in hisec without a kill right. A bounty != a kill right. And much as they are today, someone that ventures into low, null, or J-space are fair game. Therefore I don't think this will boost griefing significantly.
Change is scary. This change is good. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
I realize that having a bounty does not grant kill rights.
Having a bounty on you makes suicide ganking you profitable. Therefore, people will use the threat of putting a bounty on you as a means of blackmail. That blackmail will be followed through with actual bounties, and increased suicide ganking. Actual bounties and suicide ganks will make carebears unsub., Unsub will cause CCP to make changes.
The argument that carebears didn't drop during hulkageddon ignores mass unsub that caused CCP to make changes to other mining barges.
I've seen what a war dec does to participation in carebear corps. People just do not bother logging in for a week or two. But, usually the war dec goes away before the corp totally disbands. Bounties that do not go away after a week or two.... Death to carebear corps, carebear toons, subscription rates.
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
447
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: I fail to see where the problem lies with this.
Then read the OP again as I clearly lay it out. Hint: CCP REVENUE!
People wont quit over being blackmailed via bounties, and if they do EVE is better off without them, which will then in turn attract more players.
Check m8. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Valerie Tessel wrote:The bounty system won't give a profit motive to the gankers as it will still be unprofitable to kill in hisec without a kill right.
Wrong.
A fleet of DPS destroyers, after insurance payouts, is super cheap. The bounty doesn't have to be especially large to make it profitable to gank that hulk/mack/orca/freighter.
The lack of profit is on the side of the person placing the bounty.... unless placing bounties is (and it will be) used as a blackmail tool against carebears.
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Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
244
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:
Two flaws: 1) lot of the high sec ganking is done on throw away toons. It takes very little training to get into a DPS destroyer... The bounties will do little if placed on a throw away toon.
Cool. Throw away "toons" are against the rules so anyone you know cycling "toons" like this should be reported.
Huh? it is, where has CCP said this? |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: People wont quit over being blackmailed via bounties, and if they do EVE is better off without them, which will then in turn attract more players.
Check m8.
CCP is not going to agree with your point that EVE is better without them. I do not agree that the bounty system changes will attract more subs than it drives away.
As soon as the bounty system starts driving away more players than it attracts, and I predict it will, it will be changed.
I think the two critical questions are:
1) for how long will I have to unsub to get the bounty to go away?
2) will we be able to see who placed the bounty on us/our corp?
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Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
450
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Valerie Tessel wrote:The bounty system won't give a profit motive to the gankers as it will still be unprofitable to kill in hisec without a kill right The new bounty system will help to make ganking profitable again. It won't be a lot of profit, but it should be enough to make ganking and hi-sec PvP worthwhile for those who enjoy making people cry.
This is how CCP intend the system to be. To bring some pain back to the universe and to punish those who can't accept it.
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:In short, players are not going to use the system as intended. How do you know that putting bounties on terrible carebear shitposters isn't what the system was intended for, Dinsdale? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
399
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: I fail to see where the problem lies with this.
Then read the OP again as I clearly lay it out. Hint: CCP REVENUE! People wont quit over being blackmailed via bounties, and if they do EVE is better off without them, which will then in turn attract more players. Check m8.
Only 19 days left coward. How big a bounty are you putting on me because my posting annoys you?
And love your logic there. Let me see if I can paraphrase: "if people quit the game, they were the wrong kind of people for Eve anyway, and there is a vast lineup of people to replace them, as the ones that stay will all enjoy this type of cut-throat play, and Eve will ultimately prosper and grow its sub base built exclusively of the "right" kind of players".
Yeah, I am sure that will work out fine. CCP should hire you as a game designer / marketer.
I could go on explaining to you that there are only so many sociopaths out there that will be attracted to the vision of Eve that you have, but the concept would be lost on you. |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
714
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:The new bounty system will help to make ganking profitable again.
The funny thing is, gankers will be setting the bounties and also collecting them, so they won't be making money as much as getting their money back. Any isk spent on the ships will be the price they pay to get their isk back. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
448
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Only 19 days left coward. How big a bounty are you putting on me because my posting annoys you?
I'm going to wait until about a week before hand then go ratting all week and dump all that on a bounty on you.
I reckon it's going to be at least 500mil. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
101
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:I think CCP intended the changes to the bounty system to be used as "pay back" for people that do bad things in game. Mess with me, I'll put a bounty on you.
What you think and what CCP intended are not the same thing.
CCP gives the players the freedom to put bounties on anyone, for whatever reason you choose. The changes in Retribution are merelly changes to make the bounty system actually work.
As far as the claim to "blackmail". It isn't blackmail you are referring to, it is extortion. The solution to it is very simple, yet might not come to mind for some of lower IQ players. If the goal is to extort money through threatening bounties, by merely not paying the player extorting it becomes a very big expense for him to follow through on his threats. IF his original goal was to profit from this, he would stop very quickly if no one would pay him. IF his original goal was to grief, he was going to put that bounty anyways, now the system actually works, deal with it. |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
80
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Valerie Tessel wrote:The bounty system won't give a profit motive to the gankers as it will still be unprofitable to kill in hisec without a kill right. Wrong. A fleet of DPS destroyers, after insurance payouts, is super cheap. The bounty doesn't have to be especially large to make it profitable to gank that hulk/mack/orca/freighter. The lack of profit is on the side of the person placing the bounty.... unless placing bounties is (and it will be) used as a blackmail tool against carebears. CCP nerfed that already. CONCORDed ships do not get insurance payouts.
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
101
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:
Two flaws: 1) lot of the high sec ganking is done on throw away toons. It takes very little training to get into a DPS destroyer... The bounties will do little if placed on a throw away toon.
Cool. Throw away "toons" are against the rules so anyone you know cycling "toons" like this should be reported. Huh? it is, where has CCP said this?
I dont' recall where to find the information myself, but I can assure you recycling "toons" is against the rules. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
450
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
It is. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3611
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Posted - 2012.11.15 16:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: People wont quit over being blackmailed via bounties, and if they do EVE is better off without them, which will then in turn attract more players.
Check m8.
CCP is not going to agree with your point that EVE is better without them. I do not agree that the bounty system changes will attract more subs than it drives away. As soon as the bounty system starts driving away more players than it attracts, and I predict it will, it will be changed. I think the two critical questions are: 1) for how long will I have to unsub to get the bounty to go away? 2) will we be able to see who placed the bounty on us/our corp?
1) 5 months 2) yes, you'll get a notification if someone placed a bounty on you, who did it and how much. if you're a director in a corp/alliance you'll also get that notification if it's placed on corp/alliance
so if you want to place it anonymously you'll have to use an alt or do it through a 3rd party Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 17:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Silk daShocka wrote: As far as the claim to "blackmail". It isn't blackmail you are referring to, it is extortion.
You are going to argue with me over which synonym I chose to use?
I looked up blackmail in: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blackmail
Here is what I found: extortion or coercion by threats
The origin: "a tribute anciently exacted on the Scottish border by plundering chiefs in exchange for immunity from pillage "
Yes, blackmail is commonly used in regards to paying someone to not make your secrets known. However, that is neither the original, not the only meaning of the word.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 17:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:
1) 5 months 2) yes, you'll get a notification if someone placed a bounty on you, who did it and how much. if you're a director in a corp/alliance you'll also get that notification if it's placed on corp/alliance
so if you want to place it anonymously you'll have to use an alt or do it through a 3rd party
It is going to suck letting accounts unsub a whole 5 months to clear off the bounty.
Lots of alt accounts will be used to place bounties I guess.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 17:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:In short, players are not going to use the system as intended. How do you know that putting bounties on terrible carebear shitposters isn't what the system was intended for, Dinsdale?
The release is called "Retribution" (synonym: pay back, reprisal, revenge) not "new way to extort carebears". |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3611
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Posted - 2012.11.15 17:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:
1) 5 months 2) yes, you'll get a notification if someone placed a bounty on you, who did it and how much. if you're a director in a corp/alliance you'll also get that notification if it's placed on corp/alliance
so if you want to place it anonymously you'll have to use an alt or do it through a 3rd party
It is going to suck letting accounts unsub a whole 5 months to clear off the bounty. Lots of alt accounts will be used to place bounties I guess.
maybe you can just see how it goes. hisec will still be safe and if people gank you you'll gain kill right on said ganker which you can then make available to other people for ISK, so you could make money on that as well.
specially if the ganker is a terrible person, a lot of people want killed Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.11.15 17:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:pay back, reprisal, revenge Yes, getting revenge for the wasted minutes of my life reading your terrible, whiny posts.
Working as intended. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
452
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Posted - 2012.11.15 17:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
So I guess that concludes the thread. The mechanic is working as intended and CCP don't care that OP is threatening to biomass himself in protest. A good result all round. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
399
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Posted - 2012.11.15 17:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Only 19 days left coward. How big a bounty are you putting on me because my posting annoys you?
I'm going to wait until about a week before hand then go ratting all week and dump all that on a bounty on you. I reckon it's going to be at least 500mil.
Pffff....500M..... Surely you can do better than that.
When I lived in null, I could make 500M/day ratting, not in a week. Heck, I head into low sec on a regular basis and including the faction loot drops I do better than 100M/day.
I mean c'mon, you want to scare me, you are going to have to do far better than that. You will have to add a zero to that amount before I start getting worried.
Why not call up your goon buddies and see if I am already on their kill list? That might save you some money. |
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