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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10344
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Tippia mentioned one or two skills and intimated that there were a few others that were situational. Actually, I suggested that they're all situational aside from the core skills GÇö some are just good enough to get if you find yourself in the situation in question (e.g. flying logis or recons or drone ships). JDC was left out because you go with what you know GÇö I don't particularly go with cap skills.
Anyway, the point was rather that for all the time you spend, the actual added benefit is very small and in most cases, that same time spent on support skills will provide a far larger bonus. The classic maths-only example is that instead of spending five times longer to get 4% more, you could spend it on five support skills and get 150% worth of bonuses. Granted, the way skills combine and differ from each other means it won't add up quite that neatly (that's why it's maths-only), but for illustrative purposes it's good enough. JDC, of course, is a skill that has no such cumulative support skills. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:
I obliged with a reply. JDC V. If you do JF or Carrier or Blops, you want it.
Yes - I got that - referring to the OP, I just wanted to underline that a skill 'making a difference' is entirely dependent on personal preference.
I like having JDC V, but it rarely applies when I do something ingame.
So referring to the OP, I'd consider skills that are:
low rank > offering a huge bonus > being applicable to a wide range of ships/fittings that are within the range of what someone wants to try as worthy of training to V, which pretty much applies to any skill except tactical shield manipulation or adterburner V, which you pretty much never want at V. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
454
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Firstly let me just say for the disclaimer the OP has used alone they already got my respect.
To address the issue:
As a rule of thumb if you want to specialise in it, get it to V. Why? Because you want to do it better than anyone else and imo the skill levels look like this:
I - Only train to this if training further provides literally no benefit (e.g. cybernetics to I lets you use most implants, if you're not planning on using the others no point in training further.) II - Only train to this if training further provides literally no benefit III- Train to this level if you wont use the skill that often and you don't need to be good IV - Train to this level if you want to be good at whatever it does V - Train to this level if you want to specialise in using this skill
Some fits, mods, roles etc require skills to V. AWU5 is a good example, so is Logistics for T2 logis. Likewise cap skills to V is a must if you want to use lasers well.
As a rule of thumb though, level IV gets you "good" at most things, you only need level V when it's either non-optional to use something or you want to be a specialist. Probing has been mentioned, generally level 4 skills + good technique are enough. However if you were level V across the board vs level IV across the board you've got an edge over me. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Berendas
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
330
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
I got a real chuckle at your preface, OP. Glad to see some new players with a sense of humor and an understanding of the learning curve |
Fort Knockers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thanks to all who have responded. Lots to digest and I'm still a wee bit overwhelmed, but I have a little more insight on this great 'game' I've found. I won't be straying to others anytime soon. This is the most fun I've had in a LONG time.
-Cheers to all
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
979
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Posted - 2012.11.16 02:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fort Knockers wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW ! With all due respect, I was trying to ask a question with quite the opposite attitude. The root question are level V's worth it? Not I want it now. Should have added the self entitlement to my disclaimer.
I have like 68 of them at Level 5, approaching 3 years. This game takes a rather extinct idea anymore called patience.
Yes, they are worth it. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
979
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Posted - 2012.11.16 02:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Tippia mentioned one or two skills and intimated that there were a few others that were situational. Actually, I suggested that they're all situational aside from the core skills GÇö some are just good enough to get if you find yourself in the situation in question (e.g. flying logis or recons or drone ships). JDC was left out because you go with what you know GÇö I don't particularly go with cap skills. Anyway, the point was rather that for all the time you spend, the actual added benefit is very small and in most cases, that same time spent on support skills will provide a far larger bonus. The classic maths-only example is that instead of spending five times longer to get 4% more, you could spend it on five support skills and get 150% worth of bonuses. Granted, the way skills combine and differ from each other means it won't add up quite that neatly (that's why it's maths-only), but for illustrative purposes it's good enough. JDC, of course, is a skill that has no such cumulative support skills.
Great analysis, but now compute it all with the mindset of indefinite playtime across the field of a sandbox. TONS of time to Level 5 absolutely everything up if one persists.
The difference between Astronomics 3 and Astronomics 4 is actually quite astounding.
edit: I mean Astronomics to be all the Astronomic skills combined. |
Lashenadeeka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.11.16 02:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Berendas wrote:I got a real chuckle at your preface, OP. Glad to see some new players with a sense of humor and an understanding of the learning curve
I prefer it when they're **** at EVE and don't become PLEX parasites within a few months tbh. |
Dracan02
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
7
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Posted - 2012.11.16 03:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
up to 66 level 5 skills here, there are some i wish i had not wasted my time on and others that are a must. All fitting and capacitor skills should be at 5 as every ship benefits from these. there are a range of other skills, navigation and space ship command for example, that are so commonly trained to 5 that they are considered a must. a simple rule for pushing skills to 5 is that if you are going to use that skill in most ships then you might as well train it. |
Holy One
263
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Posted - 2012.11.16 03:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
its an economy of scale. the smaller and more specialist, the more it matters. |
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
91
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Posted - 2012.11.16 03:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Holy One wrote:its an economy of scale. the smaller and more specialist, the more it matters. That is epic, good sir. |
Holy One
264
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Posted - 2012.11.16 04:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Holy One wrote:its an economy of scale. the smaller and more specialist, the more it matters. That is epic, good sir.
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=549131
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Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
86
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Posted - 2012.11.16 04:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Drone Interfacing is a whole 20% more dps per level. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1729
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Posted - 2012.11.16 06:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Electronics Upgrades V and Minmatar Frigate V.
A very amazing combination of Vs. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Matarella
The Last Call. Against ALL Anomalies
14
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Posted - 2012.11.16 07:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:for probing, you want astro 5 to use 8 probes. after that, get covops 5, makes a big difference. the astro support skills are well worth it at 5 too but they take too long for most people to bother with.
who the **** uses 8 probes at once? talking about being inefficient...
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Idicious Lightbane
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
25
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Posted - 2012.11.16 08:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
With the winter expansion there will be both t1 frig and t1 cruiser logistic ships added. The cruisers are insane for the cost, frigs are a fun addition to small roams, and they have a low skill entry barrier. T2 logistics are a very long train to get into, but with the addition of these new ships you will be able to fly at near t2 efficiency much faster (for the cruisers that is, they are amazing) |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
710
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Posted - 2012.11.16 11:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fort Knockers wrote: does hitting level V simply make them practical to do?
How much you actually gain is indicated in the skill description. Show info on the skill and you'll see it. Does it actually make a difference? Is it "worth the training time"? There's only one way for you to find out.
If you want to see where I stand on level 5 skills, Ptraci is on EVE-board. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
164
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Posted - 2012.11.16 11:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
I like your name OP. Fort Knockers. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
109
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Posted - 2012.11.16 14:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
They can make a HUGE HUGE difference. With that being said, some more than others.
Unless it give other bonuses to ship class, some of the basic ship based ones can be questionable (Skill at operating caldari battleship), until of course, you want to fly another ship that requires it. It is all about specialization and your own determination on the time it will take versus your goals.
But in sum, if you really want to do that task... then yes. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
55
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Posted - 2012.11.16 14:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Best skills worth train to lvl 5 for everyone are form navigations group, just because navigation are core of every ship, even afterburner at lvl 5 just because got impact on better cap while using active tank. |
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
256
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Posted - 2012.11.16 14:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote: There is a saying around here "can't patch stupid",
I definitely like that one!
also, definitely love kicking ass in T1 frigs. Velators too >: ) |
Abominare
The Hatchery Team Liquid
16
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Posted - 2012.11.16 18:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
Depends on what you're doing. We've won a lot of fights because we got to abuse the fact that we don't let people fly without V's in anything other than a frig. Nothing is more entertaining that killing a fleet much larger than your own because their drake spam with having l3 and maybe l4 in supports meant their missiles couldn't reach us. |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
OP said "No problem, long haul game. I'm committed to investing the time, not crying about the wait."
You said
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW !
Did you read? Can you read? |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
Aside from the obvious, I've been recommending Cruiser 5 for years to get into much kewler ships, but the one that I've seen a real difference with has been Battlecruiser 5. Honestly didn't think much of it, but it actually makes a real difference. My Ferox is actually fun to use now! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
989
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:OP said "No problem, long haul game. I'm committed to investing the time, not crying about the wait." You said Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW ! Did you read? Can you read?
Indeed good sir. And did you read his next paragraph where all he does is whine, complain, and give tears ? |
Wivabel
Exanimo Inc Unclaimed.
47
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
Holy One wrote:its an economy of scale. the smaller and more specialist, the more it matters.
That picture/you is/are terrible you did not overheat your guns ...............JK
As far as level 5s like many have said if you plan to specialise in something they are a must. When it comes to logi Logistics 5 is a must. Though now that CCP is implementing good t1 versions you will not have to invest to much time into these ships to find out if they are for you. With average skills you will be able to find out if Logi is for you without having to train logi 5. This goes for most ship types classes. T1 across the board will be more viable and thus somewhat more forgiving of noobies.
Wiv To be a part of future EVE intrigue check us out. Sov in the south. Small gang pew is what we do when we are-ánot defending our space.-á
Join "Exan-áRecruitment"-áin game |
Demolishar
United Aggression
442
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Well, some make 5%, some make 10%. I know of a few that make 2% as well. And of course they can be as high as 125% in some cases. |
HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW !
Congrats on being the first troll in. OP asked a legit question why not give legit answer? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
990
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW ! Congrats on being the first troll in. OP asked a legit question why not give legit answer?
Sorry but I don't troll.
The OP is suspect in my opinion for, first, even asking the question. The entire tone seemed to be attempting to disguise the fact that he wants to have a lot of power ingame without having to be patient and work for it.
Second of all, any higher skill level is always better. Again, why even ask, unless looking for advice for an easier unknown way ?
Sorry, but that's my opinion.
Also, interesting nobody complained about that post until today. Look at the date on the op's.
EDIT: Also, consider the rather tecnical and thorough list at the beginning of OP. That is hardly the sound of a noob. I guess you can say that I felt trolled. |
Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
398
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Posted - 2012.11.21 19:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
To our newbie OP who actually 'gets' it, when it comes to Eve.
As mentioned, Logi 5 is a must have for when you're in a logistics ship. in a guardian/basi you can get away with 4, but it will be far less effective. on 5, the scimi and oneiros become cap stable, allowing you to continue repping on and on and on.. and on the basi/guardian 5 means you only need 1 energy transfer aimed at you, so either you can go with 5 reppers and 1 transfer each in the group, or 4/2 and use the 2nd energy transfer as a means to prevent cap draining and ECM jamming from hurting your spider setups. Or to replenish the energy of those big lazorboats that suck up too much cap all the time.
As a new player, scanning is a great way to make money, and you don't need the level 5s to do it. In highsec, you can easily get away with frigate 4, scan strength 4 as all you have. only in low/null does getting a bit more skill or getting a real covops to do it matter. Just use sister probes and probe launcher, and you're good to go for high.
Eventually, you will probbaly want to move your scanner also in a recon ship ( they are great toys ). Recon 5 is indeed a very usefull thing to have here, as it will allow for a very nice range of fittings as you're no longer restrained by the CPU cost of your cloak, giving you all kinds of evil options to put on your ship.
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