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George LA Bush
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.11.18 07:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to write about the future of EVE and the things that i think the developers are doing wrong.
1. I feel like its good idea to balance the ships, but this cannot take so much time...
2. We need new things to keep people in eve and we need easier and more clear starts to new pilots. One thing i think needs changeing is the right click menus, those need to stay, but there needs to be alternatives to this so new players can use them easier.
3. Also the overview needs alot of work, one thing i find really bad in pvp is that when you have ewar used on your ship or some other module, the icons are so small its hard to see whats going on, they should be as large as the images of ships when targeted.
4. I think eve online needs to hire a person to make UI and functions more user friendly, dont get me wrong i love complex things, but many new players do not. Everything is too hard to learn.
5. I think it's a grave mistake from developers to not develop walking in stations, i have personally waited for this since 2007 and i demand some work on it. I think developers listen too much the old users of eve, when they should listen more to those that are coming to eve.
6. We need walking in stations, and we need new great things in space. Start innovating, i think people are leaving because there is hardly anything new in eve, i belive there needs to be radical changes to keep people playing. It's time to wake up devs and make some radical changes, here are some things i would like to see:
1. More solo pvp. 2. More activities in stations. 3. Stock market. 4. Better PVE.
7. I love eve as it is, but if we want more players, developers should stop pleaseing current ones too much. If i look at things in eve and what has been improved are just small things, we need big things, big things... Player owned Casinos in stations, clothing shops etc..
8. One of the biggest things developers did wrong was putting dust to ps3, IF you woulda intergrated dust completely on eve and walking in stations, you would have hit GOLD! I just cannot belive your decission to take it on ps3, it's just really really stupid decission. One other thing about dust is that it takes too long to kill other players, thats why people like hardcore servers on BF3, because you get kills fast. People want to kill fast and in dust you do not. Dust will be a failure, i'm 100% sure of that if the current things do not change. I do hope it succeeds, since that will bring more money to CCP. In dust it takes 3 times longer to kill a player than in battlefield 3 or cod, the kids will hate it.
Let's have a discussion. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1102
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Posted - 2012.11.18 08:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
George LA Bush wrote:3. Also the overview needs alot of work, one thing i find really bad in pvp is that when you have ewar used on your ship or some other module, the icons are so small its hard to see whats going on, they should be as large as the images of ships when targeted. You didn't notice those HUGE ewar icons over the top of your HUD?
Ewareness for debuff-alo soldiers |
Tao Dolcino
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
54
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Posted - 2012.11.18 09:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree that there is need to improve the ergonomy of the game, and that it can be more important for the new players than for the older ones because these got used to it. A better interface doesn't mean that the game becomes shallower. It's even the opposite : because the interface is better, we can add more easily new content.
Most importantly i think that when it comes to find creative ideas to attract and keep new players we should never listen to most of the older players, because they have totally forgotten what it is to be a new player, and what is obvious for them is not at all for a newcomer. And... *whispers with a knowing look* they tend to become very ehm, how to say... conservative
In other words, when you bring a new idea, all what you'll "harvets" is "go back to WoW poor noob" |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
76
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Posted - 2012.11.18 09:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
wrong sub forum for this |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
230
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Posted - 2012.11.18 10:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
The issue many older EVE players will have with (new) ideas is the notion that EVE needs more players, somehow people have this mistaken idea that everything will get better if there'd just be more players and that it would be better for the company as well. Managers also have that same mistaken idea but then it's mostly because their income is based on short term increased revenue as they'll leave the company in a few years anyway to "find new challenges".
Here's the issue: EVE from the outset was a very niche type of gameplay and while it IS quite niche those customers are also quite loyal, mostly because there's no alternatives. Making the game more mainstream means having to appeal to mainstream type of players which in turn means you have to "dumb down" (hate the word but you know what I mean) game, make it less painful to mess up and generally just make it be more like a generic attraction park MMO.
That WILL attract more players, short term. Thing is those players tend to hop MMO's quite a lot, they'll all rush to the newest one and then a few months later they'll flock to he next one (see just about any MMO in the last decade). The problem is that while you increase short term players you also alienate your existing&loyal playerbase of which a portion will probably get fed up with this EVE NGE and simply leave. Result is that long term the game LOSES customers.
The real problem is that content in EVE is mostly player created and only people who are invested in to EVE will (want to) create content. See Goons, EVE-Uni, 0.0 alliance leaders, Chribba, GHSC etc etc etc. It's the players who make the game and create the content. And you'll only have players like that if you allow the game to be as it is; a free for all sandbox. So the second you change the sandbox, add training wheels etc is the second EVE stops being special and starts to become a run of the mill standard MMO, it'll lose its content creators and that means that long term it'll go down the drain.
So we don't have "issues" with new people making suggestions, wo DO have issues when it's framed as a "if you'd just change the gameplay and make it less painful and difficult you'd have way more customers, because that's a good thing". It's not a good thing and long term it wouldn't mean more players. Making suggestions about UI or NPE is fine, making a suggestion similar to "change the game to be more like other, more normal MMOs" are not fine. Amat victoria curam. |
George LA Bush
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.11.18 10:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree, i don't want them to change this game to be like other games, but we need radical changes. New innovations, radical changes and systems. |
shadowhearth Eto
5pm In Hades Hail the Hoff
12
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Posted - 2012.11.18 10:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
As a new player to another new player: MAN THE FECK UP!
1. Balancing takes forever. There is no game perfectly balanced and it is imposible to do unless everything is a mirror copy of each other. Games like Starcraft and league of legends are being patched and balanced each month since release. Its not an easy job.
2. changing right click menus... There are so many things you need to do. if you make a button for each menu you wont even see your ship under them. as for clear and easier starts? Eve is noob friendly as much as it can. i tried playing EVE 3-4 years ago i got confused and said " feck it, i am gone". Now i gave it a go and few weeks later i am playing on two accounts. Eve is one of those games, who still respects player and does not take it for a complete idiot. you have to put in some effort and brain yourself. ( which i find it GREAT, sick of hand holding )
3. get glasses m8. or wait for retribution, because you will be able to scale menus and windows.
4. Its easy and simple as it is, you just get confused as a new player. trust me, more you play, the more whole menu system makes sense.
5. Walking on stations - the most useless thing that development resources were spent on. I can only imagine how much awesome stuff would be now if they would skip that 2min eyecandy.
6. Eve is a sandbox, it is as fun and complex as you will make it.
6.1 Solo PVP - there re plenty of people who do it. if someone did not took your hand and showed you where null/low sec is then shame on them! 6.2. The activities on station i would like - to see my female alt character taking a bath, so i could watch her on my main. that would be AWESOME! 6.3. Hmmmmmm 6.4. PVE is not the focus of this game. Its only something to show how to play for new players. in the end of the day your End game and last boss is going to be - YOU.
7. We NEED BIG THINGS! i always wanted a huge golden male genitalia statue in each system. That would be awesome.
8. +1 to you there. though opinions like assholes, everyone got them. Move to PS3 of dust was stupid. its a console generation on its last legs. why did CPP decided to do it is just weird. Games like Planet side 2 would be a great example of FTP Fps on pc. thats what CPP needs to do. there is a huge market on PC and PC gaming is growing nice and steady. Plus i bet every single EVE online player would go play some dust on same machine while waiting for that skill to be trained up.
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George LA Bush
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.11.18 10:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
shadowhearth Eto wrote:
8. +1 to you there. though opinions like assholes, everyone got them. Move to PS3 of dust was stupid. its a console generation on its last legs. why did CPP decided to do it is just weird. Games like Planet side 2 would be a great example of FTP Fps on pc. thats what CPP needs to do. there is a huge market on PC and PC gaming is growing nice and steady. Plus i bet every single EVE online player would go play some dust on same machine while waiting for that skill to be trained up.
I would get Dust if it would be on pc. I think their main thinking was to introduce eve to consol people and i think pc and console people do not mix well. When you play on consols you want everything set up and fast gaming experience.
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Ovv Topik
Proposition Thirteen The Third Rail
9
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Posted - 2012.11.18 11:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
OP. This isnt a troll. But may be the simple fact is EVE isnt the game for you. It's had 10 yrs of balancing and tweeking, and a lot of us wouldnt change a thing. Are 'steep learning curves' and 'Depth of gameplay' so different? Theres a lot of easier/safer/friendlier/casual games to choose from.
I'm not saying 'clear off'', just see it for what it is.
ti'n siarad Cymraeg? |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
529
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Posted - 2012.11.18 12:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Okay. here it goes:
1.) Agreed. They should speed it up and don't dress every single stage up as a separate expansion.
2.) EVE is a sandbox where you can do what you want. Making professions easier to get into will turn the game more into a rollercoaster MMO cause more people just follow premade paths.
3.) Uhm...apparantly you didn't PvP much. The EWar done too you is now displayed BIG above your capacitor HUD and is actually click-able to target who is doing it etc.
4.) EVE is hard to learn if you don't spent time and attitude into willing to learn the game. If people really want to learn and use their own brain it isn't all that hard cause of all the player made help guides and videos. Pull google up, type in "EVE Online how do I do 'xxxx'" an it will list you with a lot of pages on how to the thing you want.
5.) They are still working on WiS, be it in a smaller group of Devs. So SoonGäó is in place here.
6.) This is all what YOU want to see, personal ideas don't have to be to the benefit of EVE, just to you. Though stock market would be nice as corp shares will be bit more usefull
7.) Clothing shops ==> NEX store, Casino's ===> Already there through 3rd party applications
8.) Good that the kids will hate Dust, means grown up people will play it. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
48
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Posted - 2012.11.18 17:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
George LA Bush wrote:
Let's have a discussion.
Let's not and say we did.
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Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
268
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Posted - 2012.11.18 17:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
All sounds pretty badly thought out to me. I'd hazard a guesse you have no experience what so ever of software design. If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if i'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
George LA Bush
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.11.18 19:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:All sounds pretty badly thought out to me. I'd hazard a guesse you have no experience what so ever of software design.
I'm the guy who designed NGE for star wars galaxies, so i do have some experience. |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1066
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Posted - 2012.11.18 19:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Moved from New Citizens. ISD Suvetar,-áCaptain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department We are hiring! |
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Nanatoa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
162
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Posted - 2012.11.18 19:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
George LA Bush wrote:5. I think it's a grave mistake from developers to not develop walking in stations, i have personally waited for this since 2007 and i demand some work on it. I think developers listen too much the old users of eve
"Listening to old users" is a generous way to describe a situation where rapidly declining subscriber numbers forced them to lay off 20% of their staff. What should they have done? Not listen and condemn EVE to Oblivion?
We do what we must, because we can.
MinerBumping.com |
Oregin
Aliastra Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.11.18 19:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
I demand, we need, do this, do that. Stop talking like a spoiled child. |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
531
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Posted - 2012.11.18 20:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
George LA Bush wrote:Keno Skir wrote:All sounds pretty badly thought out to me. I'd hazard a guesse you have no experience what so ever of software design. I'm the guy who designed NGE for star wars galaxies, so i do have some experience.
And we all know how that MMO got great and survived for 10 years and is still growing....oh wait. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
531
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Posted - 2012.11.18 20:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nanatoa wrote:George LA Bush wrote:5. I think it's a grave mistake from developers to not develop walking in stations, i have personally waited for this since 2007 and i demand some work on it. I think developers listen too much the old users of eve "Listening to old users" is a generous way to describe a situation where rapidly declining subscriber numbers forced them to lay off 20% of their staff. What should they have done? Not listen and condemn EVE to Oblivion?
This...If they continued it, yeah they might have gotten couple of more new players in, but more then half of their current customers would have left...Great way to keep a company going by scaring off your customers. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Lin Gerie
Hole Perception Fade 2 Black
4
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Posted - 2012.11.18 21:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
1. Balancing ANYTHING takes tons of time, let alone such a complex game. Honestly they seem to be moving too fast with the number of ships they're balancing all at once. But if it works, power to them.
2. I can partially agree with this. The real issue is that the UI code is very old. When you have a game that is as old and has gone through so many changes as eve online changing one bit of old code can screw up the whole game. They know their UI sucks, and have been working slowly to improve it.
3. these are coming soon
4. The problem is eve IS complex. No matter how simple you want controls you can not simplify further then the complexity of the task. Eve is a big game, and this complexity is actually part of its draw.
5. So you're telling the devs they're style of development is wrong? Normally I could agree with you, but considering that EVE online is the ONLY MMO that has lasted as long as this, and it has grown in size EVERY year it has been out. I don't think anyone can tell them anything. They're doing it right.
6. We do not NEED walking in stations. What good does it do us? With all the things to do in eve you make yourself bored by not participating in new things. This is a game about spaceships so walking in stations (as of right now) serves no purpose. If you want solo pvp look for it yourself (seriously ask around you might get some cool fights) why? and what "activities"? there is one they're doing that now with AI changes.
7. Eve is eve because of the players, the current players. Without them eve wouldn't be the eve we know today. The last thing we need is for another game company to dumb down its gameplay to have a wider audience. That aside there are already clothing shops and casinos in eve, run by players!
8. CCP did a very smart thing putting it on the PS3. They are aiming for a new audience and a good test audience. Due to limitations with xbox live it had to be PSN. This eases in a group of players who already like FPS games on their console and introduces them to an already well established world. Given that the long term of this will likely include all those things you complain about above like walking in stations, or having battles in stations for instance. As for taking a while to kill players, exactly how long did it take to clear a high sec belt from rats in a frig when you first started? And how long does it take when you have 10m skill points? If you skill right and are good at your role you will do fine. Plus it is in beta so chill. That aside the EVE universe is not BF3 or COD and those are NOT the standard anyways. |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
531
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Posted - 2012.11.18 23:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lin Gerie wrote:1. Balancing ANYTHING takes tons of time, let alone such a complex game. Honestly they seem to be moving too fast with the number of ships they're balancing all at once. But if it works, power to them.
2. I can partially agree with this. The real issue is that the UI code is very old. When you have a game that is as old and has gone through so many changes as eve online changing one bit of old code can screw up the whole game. They know their UI sucks, and have been working slowly to improve it.
3. these are coming soon
4. The problem is eve IS complex. No matter how simple you want controls you can not simplify further then the complexity of the task. Eve is a big game, and this complexity is actually part of its draw.
5. So you're telling the devs they're style of development is wrong? Normally I could agree with you, but considering that EVE online is the ONLY MMO that has lasted as long as this, and it has grown in size EVERY year it has been out. I don't think anyone can tell them anything. They're doing it right.
6. We do not NEED walking in stations. What good does it do us? With all the things to do in eve you make yourself bored by not participating in new things. This is a game about spaceships so walking in stations (as of right now) serves no purpose. If you want solo pvp look for it yourself (seriously ask around you might get some cool fights) why? and what "activities"? there is one they're doing that now with AI changes.
7. Eve is eve because of the players, the current players. Without them eve wouldn't be the eve we know today. The last thing we need is for another game company to dumb down its gameplay to have a wider audience. That aside there are already clothing shops and casinos in eve, run by players!
8. CCP did a very smart thing putting it on the PS3. They are aiming for a new audience and a good test audience. Due to limitations with xbox live it had to be PSN. This eases in a group of players who already like FPS games on their console and introduces them to an already well established world. Given that the long term of this will likely include all those things you complain about above like walking in stations, or having battles in stations for instance. As for taking a while to kill players, exactly how long did it take to clear a high sec belt from rats in a frig when you first started? And how long does it take when you have 10m skill points? If you skill right and are good at your role you will do fine. Plus it is in beta so chill. That aside the EVE universe is not BF3 or COD and those are NOT the standard anyways.
And correct on points 1 - 8. Hell, love how people think alike aside from OP. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
32
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Posted - 2012.11.19 03:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
George LA Bush wrote:I I think it's a grave mistake from developers to not develop walking in stations, i have personally waited for this since 2007 and i demand some work on it. I think developers listen too much the old users of eve, when they should listen more to those that are coming to eve.
so ccp should not listen to the people who actually work with the mechanics of the game, and actually fly the ships and focus more on new players who want to have circle jerks in station typing /dance all night long?
The many small issues ccp has fixed as you put it elsewhere have and will do more to keeping eve alive and well for quite sometime. PVP happens out of station for example. Even small tweaks have great impact here. CCP in one patch fixing hybrids for example got more +1's than CQ. WHy....it made them viable even for faildari boats.
Noobs can't give the input to foster these changes. That would be the bitter vets who are x-trained in all guns, running fleets for months to years going....man ccp these rail gun whine threads aren't bogus, these flaming turds need some luv for real.
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Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
172
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Posted - 2012.11.19 04:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Old-ish player reporting in.
It takes time to make balancing decisions that make sense. If you're just pulling new numbers completely out of your ass, then, well... You're not balancing properly. I don't know how well the old projectile buff that happened I think before I started was carried out, seeing as Minmatar went from unusable to 'winmatar', and have been so for the whole time I've been playing, save for now, when I think Minmatar might actually be slipping from their point atop, and going back to third or even fourth.
Yes, it's always good to also have new content but again you have to take into consideration how it's going to affect the game. WiS would be a good way to make the game feel more alive, definitely, but right now there are far more pressing issues, like making sure that everything regarding FiS is functioning properly, which is what this round of rebalances is for. It makes no sense to tack on more and more content while there's large chunks of the game that are utterly broken (See: supercapitals, nullsec, Drake scaling power, etc.)
I don't know if I'll ever reach the stage of being a 'bitter vet', because I much prefer seeing a game that changes and evolves over time rather than being stuck in the same tactical environment for years. Drake fleets, gigantic plodding Abaddon slogfests, are only interesting for so long, and then you realize that the game is stagnant. |
Grezh
Wraithguard.
1
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Posted - 2012.11.19 04:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
The concern that the ship rebalance is tacking so long is somewhat misguided, yes CCP has a team for balancing the ships, and adding more people to that team will not speed the process efficiently. What i think your concern is would be the seeming lack of content that CCP is releasing in this patch. Maybe its because they are still fixing old beat up code that won't comply to their new model of release. |
Braxus Deninard
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
73
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Posted - 2012.11.19 09:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
I really want to take this thread seriously, but it's made by a trial player with absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Why talk about balancing ships at all? You haven't even flown more than 1 or 2 ships in the game! |
Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.12.24 07:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:I really want to take this thread seriously, but it's made by a trial player with absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Why talk about balancing ships at all? You haven't even flown more than 1 or 2 ships in the game! 1. There is no way for you of knowing whether or not it's a trial account.
2. It could very well be an alt, as some people prefer to be more anonymous on the forums.
3. Sort of a side point, but one to two ships for a new character is sort of an underestimate unless they are a one day old. Try-Cycle Mining Industry recruiting! |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
34
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Posted - 2012.12.24 12:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
'Waiting since 2007'! Wait... you are telling me you have played this game for over FIVE YEARS! And are trying to call this 'A new players view of Eve'.... Really.... 0/10 for believability. |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
1509
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Okay, who is the Necro this time... Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
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