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Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
2
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Posted - 2012.11.19 16:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am still baffled by the players that consistently make T1 items for less than the mineral value of the items. I specialize in T2 invention and manufacturing and I buy all of my T1 mods/ammo rather than producing them myself for T2 manufacturing, basically because you can't make them as cheap as people sell them for. I mean you can literally take the raw minerals it takes to make these items, put them on the market, and make more money. Even with an ME 10-15 BPO where waste is a fraction of a percent you can't make this stuff cheaper.
So can someone explain to me why this happens so often? (and no if you mined the minerals they are not free they have value) |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
419
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Posted - 2012.11.19 18:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
This thread seems to come up every few months but the answer is always the same. Either it's not happening like you think it is (you should check your numbers) or it's localized. Either way, the market will self correct for the very reason you posted. Plus, not everyone builds stuff. They buy it and want to sell stuff quickly when they are done using it. If someone bought something for a mill last month and now it's selling for 2mil near current material cost, and they sell it for 1.5mil....is that baffling?
Build costs aren't everything to everyone. Many reasons for pricing. If you see what you described, the question is why aren't you taking advantage of it? Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
2
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Posted - 2012.11.19 19:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Some very good points, all valid, although I don't think anyone is using ammo for a while and then selling it back This is one of the major ones I see a lot of.
I suppose market orders with the .01 isk traders could be driving the price down, but this isn't isolated or localized its Jita, Rens, and any other "hub" area. It's also in large volumes, it's not like an order for 5 drones or 5 guns, but like 500, so either they are mass produced or bought in mass. I've checked the numbers multiple times, I know the the stuff is going below mineral prices, and believe me I buy the stuff up as a I need it for my own production rather than make it so I do take advantage, but I'm just curious to hear from some of these producers as to why they do it?
I know its the way things are, and I'm not asking them to stop, I'm just curious to the reasoning for it. |
Shinnyo
aWc Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
T1 stuff drops from NPCs too, so a lot of the T1 stuff you see on the market comes from mission runners who hoard stuff in their home station and then make a run to a market hub every once in a while. Obviously a stack of 10 million ammo is coming from a producer, but I'd guess that most of the stuff you're seeing is not. |
Acid Kanshi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
17
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Posted - 2012.11.20 06:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shinnyo wrote:T1 stuff drops from NPCs too, so a lot of the T1 stuff you see on the market comes from mission runners who hoard stuff in their home station and then make a run to a market hub every once in a while. Obviously a stack of 10 million ammo is coming from a producer, but I'd guess that most of the stuff you're seeing is not.
T1 stuff does not drop from NPCs anymore. That was introduced in Inferno 1.2. Only meta items drop from NPCs.
Your calculations must be wrong. Most T1 items produce actually profit when building. EVE-Cost is a manufacturing tool for EVE players. http://www.eve-cost.eu |
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
30
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Posted - 2012.11.20 06:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
I used to sorta do that when i had access to 20-30% cheaper minerals in bulk. At that time, the profit for me was good enough so built em instead of the higher value, larger volume items when i had low skills and was based 30 jumps away from a hub.
Most of it however, is just traders relisting their goods and trying to 'get back their invested money' by dipping below the cost at which they bought it without realizing, that the market price will go back up in a few weeks. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
258
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Posted - 2012.11.20 15:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Acid Kanshi wrote:Shinnyo wrote:T1 stuff drops from NPCs too, so a lot of the T1 stuff you see on the market comes from mission runners who hoard stuff in their home station and then make a run to a market hub every once in a while. Obviously a stack of 10 million ammo is coming from a producer, but I'd guess that most of the stuff you're seeing is not. T1 stuff does not drop from NPCs anymore. That was introduced in Inferno 1.2. Only meta items drop from NPCs. Your calculations must be wrong. Most T1 items produce actually profit when building. T1 stuff does still drop. Only meta 0 module drops were removed. Ammo does not have meta levels like modules. There is standard ammo, faction ammo, and T2 ammo. standard ammo does still drop although meta 0 modules no longer drop.
I myself have scrap metals skills trained, great standing with Caldari Navy, and can reprocess all modules at 100% in Jita 4-4. Yet I rarely see anything for sale that I can but and reprocess at a profit. True a lot of stuff you can not make for what it is selling for with minerals at Jita sell prices, but most manufactures use buy orders for their minerals and get them well below mineral sell prices.
Very few items in Jita can be bought off the market, reprocessed and sold for a profit. When an item does appear on the market that can it is gone in seconds. Do not use Jita sell prices when determining if an item is being sold below its mineral value. This will always give you a high number.
Also my ammo BPO's are all researched to 200-300 ME. This is worth doing as the rounding is not done until after the number of runs is factored in. The perfect ME of an ammo BPO is much higher for 10,000 runs then it is for 1 run. |
Boomhaur
117
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Posted - 2012.11.20 19:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Could be from people who got minerals cheap.
In the past used to be from mission runners getting T1 from missions. (update put an end to mining with guns)
Traders trying to get back money invested (I've done it before, sometimes taking a quick hit so you can reallocate funds is what you have to do)
People who bought it cheaper in past or had it in storage and just trying to get rid of it
People like me who have enough modules that they can supply entire fleets who sometimes go on selling sprees
Mass produced items at lower price just making it to market
etc Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Samillian
180
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Posted - 2012.11.21 09:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Let us not forget those among the population who pay no attention to mineral prices or the time they put into mining and continue to pump product out below cost prices because "the minerals I mine are free". NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Arto Ruho
Caldari Gallente Concordance
0
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Posted - 2012.11.21 09:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Samillian wrote:Let us not forget those among the population who pay no attention to mineral prices or the time they put into mining and continue to pump product out below cost prices because "the minerals I mine are free".
I marvel at some people's understanding of economics when I hear that phrase |
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David Zahavi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.11.26 06:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arto Ruho wrote:Samillian wrote:Let us not forget those among the population who pay no attention to mineral prices or the time they put into mining and continue to pump product out below cost prices because "the minerals I mine are free". I marvel at some people's understanding of economics when I hear that phrase
yes put many people treat eve as a game and not a job and would rather just throw them in the oven and take them to town than bother to see if they could have gotten more money from the ore itself.
There are also people who are apart of random corps that mine, they can buy the minerals at a discount, not not to resell.
So these people genuinely beat the market because they have an advantaged supplier over the average market goer.
They can therefore at times corner the market and make 100% of the profit in this market since they can drive the price down to where others leave and look for other products to make. Dont underestimate this. |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
95
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Posted - 2012.11.26 06:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Where is what you dont understand.
I mine xxx amount of minerals. I can setup sell orders and deal with .01 games all day, or sell my minerals at -5% market value to buy orders.
Or instead I can manufacture items a, b, c and sell these items at their current market value plus some additional profit. I can throw these up in some regions and over however many days / weeks / months. Some times ore prices go up, and these items could be sold for more, but for any number of reasons (don't have the skills, to far away, don't give a damn) the price dosen't get updated. So after a while yes they are worth less then the minerals they are made out of. This can happen within HOURS of posting any type of items though. |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
57
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Posted - 2012.11.26 07:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
One thing to look at is compression. It's not uncommon to build modules to be able to pack more in your cargo hold. I've known some people to do that just to bring things to market. This is more common moving minerals from Jita to NS than to Jita. |
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