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Borascus
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
108
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
It's a Pilot's Licence, even if you paid -ú10k you wouldn't be as influential as all the players that have rage quit.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
58
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
It is my experience that most people that pay with PLEX are miners.
They judge the price of "mining for ISK to play" or "paying real money" based on the number of hours they have to mine to pay for their accounts.
A year ago, max profitability of mining was like 10 million ISK an hour for a hulk. 400 million for a PLEX was like 40 hours a month of mining, per hulk, to pay for PLEX. With 3 account, 2 hulks and an orca, making 20 million ISK an hour, it was more like 60 hours a month of mining to pay for my accounts... (I actually spent more time missioning at 40 million ISK an hour, shooting with one toon and loot/salvage with another, so more like 30 hours a month to pay for my accounts... 400M*3 = 1.2B. 1.2B/40M an hour = 30 hours ).
The increased profitability of mining (mineral prices have about doubled, and changes to CPU (overclocking rig, implants) and T2 mining links have increase yield) means I can pull closer to 25 million ISK per hour, per hulk... or 50 million ISK an hour from 2 hulks and an orca. So, I've officially parked the mach/noctis and I'm going mining.
3 tooms *600M = 1.8 billion ISK a month. At 50 million ISK an hour, that is 36 hours a month (8 hours a week) of mining to pay for my play time using PLEX bought with ISK I earned mining.
Heck, I may fire up my 4th account that just had a missioning alt and a couple cyno alts, and cross train the missioning alt to mine. It would actually reduce the number of hours I have to mine for 4 account over 3 accounts.
If the profitability of mining increases, expect the price of PLEX to increase right along with it, since decision to pay with real vs. ISK is based on the number of real hours it takes me to earn the ISK, not the nominal price of ISK.
Of course, an increased number of miners triggered by increased mineral prices, should increase the number of miners, and put a cap on mineral prices about near the mission equivalent profit per hour.
Isn't supply and demand economics a wonderful thing? Too much demand, price increases. Price increase means people people begin filling the demand, until the price set by supply and demand reaches a point where it is as profitable as the opportunity costs of not doing other things.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
216
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:It is my experience that most people that pay with PLEX are miners.
They judge the price of "mining for ISK to play" or "paying real money" based on the number of hours they have to mine to pay for their accounts.
A year ago, max profitability of mining was like 10 million ISK an hour for a hulk. 400 million for a PLEX was like 40 hours a month of mining, per hulk, to pay for PLEX. With 3 account, 2 hulks and an orca, making 20 million ISK an hour, it was more like 60 hours a month of mining to pay for my accounts... (I actually spent more time missioning at 40 million ISK an hour, shooting with one toon and loot/salvage with another, so more like 30 hours a month to pay for my accounts... 400M*3 = 1.2B. 1.2B/40M an hour = 30 hours ).
The increased profitability of mining (mineral prices have about doubled, and changes to CPU (overclocking rig, implants) and T2 mining links have increase yield) means I can pull closer to 25 million ISK per hour, per hulk... or 50 million ISK an hour from 2 hulks and an orca. So, I've officially parked the mach/noctis and I'm going mining.
3 tooms *600M = 1.8 billion ISK a month. At 50 million ISK an hour, that is 36 hours a month (8 hours a week) of mining to pay for my play time using PLEX bought with ISK I earned mining.
Heck, I may fire up my 4th account that just had a missioning alt and a couple cyno alts, and cross train the missioning alt to mine. It would actually reduce the number of hours I have to mine for 4 account over 3 accounts.
If the profitability of mining increases, expect the price of PLEX to increase right along with it, since decision to pay with real vs. ISK is based on the number of real hours it takes me to earn the ISK, not the nominal price of ISK.
Of course, an increased number of miners triggered by increased mineral prices, should increase the number of miners, and put a cap on mineral prices about near the mission equivalent profit per hour.
Isn't supply and demand economics a wonderful thing? Too much demand, price increases. Price increase means people people begin filling the demand, until the price set by supply and demand reaches a point where it is as profitable as the opportunity costs of not doing other things.
That, Sir, is an awesome insight and the most important post in the whole plex price discussion. Thank you!
_______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime. |
Korsiri
Mousetrap Building Inc.
86
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
I am not surprised, prices will rise in response to demand/supply /shrugs. Pretty simple really. Plex just have the added bonus of being something you can decide, out of game, on whether your $ is worth the time, more directly. Compare it to other isk gathering activities you may engage in and decide what's good for you. Also, a lot of people are sitting on "old money" or whatever you want to call it, they've played a long time and have a lot of isk to work with.
So yeah it's not exceptionally surprising the prices are rising/continue to rise... no need to yell about the sky falling ;) |
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Except... prices have been falling steadily since mid-october when PLEX prices were averaging 650 million.
Now you can find a -lot- of plexes at 600 and many below 600 million.
If I were to guess, I would guess that this thread is an attempt to 'encourage' people to buy up the PLEXes marked at 600 million by suggesting that they are undervalued at this price. There is a recent sell order of 10 PLEXes at Jita at 600 million.
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Bamfordi
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
4
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Might have something to do with it. |
Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:Massive amounts of alt-proliferation. I'd like to think it would come to a head, PLEX would hit the tens of billions, we'd have a huge dropout of veteran players and their hundreds of PLEX-fueled alts each, then things would return to a semblance of normality. But it's not gonna happen as stockpiles are too huge.
I'd go with a more conservative number of around 2 billion but I get your point.
EVE was the only gank based game to implement an API verified LFG tool and got the multi Box people as a bonus. Then they introduced a means for them to pay for the alts, paid for by the people who don't have Alts and buy Plex to keep up. Pretty smart really. |
Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
No, they dropped. |
Zero Audier
Anglo Dark Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2012.11.21 19:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
What was that idiot doing. |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
78
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Posted - 2012.11.21 20:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Max Chee wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmIdifIpic So I was watching the CCP Fanfest about the economy and while I was checking the prices of plex, it just went up from 590mil to 610mil When will this madness end?
Thats cheap, its not that long ago that it was 650+for a plex.
Personally i think it might be some players activateing theyr account for winter expansion, after all its not that far away anymore.. [Insert something funny or smart here] |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2012.11.21 20:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
PLEX always drop, yes? I seem to recall CCP making that change to counter claims that the ability to move PLEX was a way of having people pay for game time that never actually got used.....
This is a potential HUGE exploitable hole in the new bounty system if, in fact, PLEX always drop, and CCP is using dropped PLEX in the calculation for total lost value.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10388
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:PLEX always drop, yes? No. They are like any other item, and as always, the loot fairy hates your guts so it will inevitably seem like they never drop.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1804
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Max Chee wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmIdifIpic So I was watching the CCP Fanfest about the economy and while I was checking the prices of plex, it just went up from 590mil to 610mil When will this madness end? When ice miners can't afford subbing with PLEX anymore. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Nexus Day
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
124
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:It's coming up to xmass.
People have less money to spend on buying time cards\plex's to sell for isk.
People have less money to spend on game subscriptions.
More people want PLEX's
Less Plex's to go around
More demand than supply
Price rises.
It's almost like it's some kind of player driven economy or something Sounds like someone just watched "Trading Places".
No mention of GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip? |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1097
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:PLEX always drop
No they don't. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.11.21 21:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Max Chee wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmIdifIpic So I was watching the CCP Fanfest about the economy and while I was checking the prices of plex, it just went up from 590mil to 610mil When will this madness end?
Translate the isk value vs GTC price and you'll figure out why so many are worried about.
It's all about real money value, tell yourself the real money value of 1B isk is around $29 in the RMT actual market.
Take your own conclusions. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2012.11.21 22:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Max Chee wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmIdifIpic So I was watching the CCP Fanfest about the economy and while I was checking the prices of plex, it just went up from 590mil to 610mil When will this madness end? Translate the isk value vs GTC price and you'll figure out why so many are worried about. It's all about real money value, tell yourself the real money value of 1B isk is around $29 in the RMT actual market. Take your own conclusions.
I am confused...
So, you are saying I can spend $30 real for 2 PLEX, and legally sell in game for 1.2B isk....
Or I can pay $29 to RMTer, risk getting banned, risk having my CC stolen by unreputable RMTer, for 1B isk?
It seems to be the dog is the price of PLEX and the tail is RMT (that is, RMT adjust their priced to be a better deal than PLEX) that adjusts to be higher reward if you manage to avoid the risk...
You seem to have it as the tail (RMT) wagging the dog (legal PLEX).
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
227
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Posted - 2012.11.21 22:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Hint: PLEX prices drop during Friday evening / Saturday morning when weekend warriors get into the game after week in offices and flood market with cheaper plexes because they need ISK asap to spend weekend blowing their ships up. |
Holy One
276
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Max Chee wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmIdifIpic So I was watching the CCP Fanfest about the economy and while I was checking the prices of plex, it just went up from 590mil to 610mil When will this madness end? Translate the isk value vs GTC price and you'll figure out why so many are worried about. It's all about real money value, tell yourself the real money value of 1B isk is around $29 in the RMT actual market. Take your own conclusions. I am confused... So, you are saying I can spend $30 real for 2 PLEX, and legally sell in game for 1.2B isk.... Or I can pay $29 to RMTer, risk getting banned, risk having my CC stolen by unreputable RMTer, for 1B isk? It seems to be the dog is the price of PLEX and the tail is RMT (that is, RMT adjust their priced to be a better deal than PLEX) that adjusts to be higher reward if you manage to avoid the risk... You seem to have it as the tail (RMT) wagging the dog (legal PLEX).
CCP can't compete with RMT'ers with plex prices, not even close. The going rate is currently $17 bn. As long as they continue to want almost 100% more than the farmers charge, it will remain a massive problem.
The good news is, CCP made it very easy to make enough isk from in-game activities to cover the subscription fee. The yearly subscription fee is actually also a good deal here in the UK. -ú90 annually (-ú7.50 a month).
The main rmt trade is not the cost of subscription, in my experience, it is the cost of capitals and characters. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
843
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Posted - 2012.11.22 03:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
I don't get the confusion regarding plex prices rising since the reason is extremely basic. the amount of wealth in EVE is going up. thus people have more disposable isk. thus more people are plexing accounts rather than paying cash. meanwhile, number of people needing to sell plex for isk is going down/staying the same. thus more demand for same/lower supply. hence price goes up.
not really rocket science. people haven't posted a million threads about the steadily rising prices of T2 invulns so please stop posting a million threads about the rising prices of plex.
plex prices are going up. we know. we dont care. move on. |
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Kobal81
14th Legion Black Core Alliance
28
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Posted - 2012.11.22 05:06:00 -
[51] - Quote
Max Chee wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmIdifIpic So I was watching the CCP Fanfest about the economy and while I was checking the prices of plex, it just went up from 590mil to 610mil When will this madness end?
Not this ole song and dance again, the horse is bout bare bones akready "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit" |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2100
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Posted - 2012.11.22 05:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Hint: PLEX prices drop during Friday evening / Saturday morning when weekend warriors get into the game after week in offices and flood market with cheaper plexes because they need ISK asap to spend weekend blowing their ships up.
And there are similar daily fluctuations due to speculators updating their trades when they wake up and then again when they come home from work. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor
62
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Posted - 2012.11.22 07:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
The plex is still worth one month of play time its real value hasn't changed, ISK is worth less than last year. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1457
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Posted - 2012.11.22 07:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:So plex prices just rose agn... This isn't Twitter or you text messaging your Mom. You could have spelled out the word AGAIN. Amarr Militia |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
675
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Posted - 2012.11.22 08:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Quote:So plex prices just rose agn... This isn't Twitter or you text messaging your Mom. You could have spelled out the word AGAIN.
even if it was twitter or a text to his mum, there's still no excuse for spelling like that. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
204
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Posted - 2012.11.22 08:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Quote:So plex prices just rose agn... This isn't Twitter or you text messaging your Mom. You could have spelled out the word AGAIN. even if it was twitter or a text to his mum, there's still no excuse for spelling like that.
I am building a quoting pyramide...come join me in my endeavour...
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Borascus
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
109
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Posted - 2012.11.22 10:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:I don't get the confusion regarding plex prices rising since the reason is extremely basic. the amount of wealth in EVE is going up. thus people have more disposable isk. thus more people are plexing accounts rather than paying cash. meanwhile, number of people needing to sell plex for isk is going down/staying the same. thus more demand for same/lower supply. hence price goes up.
not really rocket science. people haven't posted a million threads about the steadily rising prices of T2 invulns so please stop posting a million threads about the rising prices of plex.
plex prices are going up. we know. we dont care. move on.
By this logic there is no demand for PLEX, as everyone has enough ISK, and all those that had enough ISK applied plex to their accounts for the next year......
You only need to look at the volume traded vs. number of online characters (running average) to see this. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
204
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Posted - 2012.11.22 10:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Max Chee wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmIdifIpic So I was watching the CCP Fanfest about the economy and while I was checking the prices of plex, it just went up from 590mil to 610mil When will this madness end?
Great...time to sell some.
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
216
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Posted - 2012.11.22 10:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote: Great...time to sell some.
I'd wait until 650m or 700m.
You know, scarcity and stuff... _______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
71
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Posted - 2012.11.22 10:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
I'm not a pikey, so I pay for the game with IRL cash. I couldn't really give a toss what price Plex is. make it a Trillion ISK for all I care. The men waved their hats, the ladies their umbrellas. One felt they would have liked to touch the steel muscles of the most courageous champions since antiquity. Who will carry off the first prize, entering the pantheon where only supermen may go? |
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