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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
432
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 02:21:00 -
[241] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Gankers most certainly can be engaged at any time under current rules, if they're outlaws, and the grand majority are. No, they don't sit in low-sec with a dozen friends in close proximity. No, they don't rat down their negative security status, and no, they don't recycle their characters, because doing either of those things is a much bigger hassle than just using the gank alts in outlaw mode.
Maybe not all of them, but I have listened to many complaints about the time it takes to rat up a neg. security status, including complaints about not being able to do it in groups before that was fixed in Null, so it does happen.
I've also run into plenty of them in small to large groups and often with a spread out presence in Lowsec while they are not ganking in Highsec. Combination of gankers and Pirates really, depending on the day.
They don't just all sit in Highsec when they are not ganking apparently. Afaik, some do recycle alts continuously because it affords them greater anonymity right up until the first and following ganks until sec status drops to low.
Destiny Corrupted wrote:You don't need for them to start ganking before engaging them, you know, because of that whole outlaw thing. Also, you absolutely can engage outlaw pods in high-sec at any time, in any system; there's no penalty, as long as they're actually -5 or below. You're correct about that last part though.
At one point did pod killing become a legal activity in Highsec for anyone, -5 target or otherwise, aside from in a Wardec?
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Are you that much of a white knight that you wouldn't gank a multi-billion-ISK freighter for profit? Do you really expect any degree of success in pushing your moral views on others when you tell them that instead of making a few billion ISK in one casual evening, they should rather go seek out enemies of equal or greater strength every single time, because it would be the honorable thing to do? Good luck.
If I was a white knight I'd probably be doing great things for my fellow capsuleers, so no, but yes. ..and no, and that was my point exactly I'm afraid. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1534
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 02:28:00 -
[242] - Quote
I understand what you're getting at. You're semi-right as long as you're only talking about events up to around 2010 or so, when a good chunk of ganking was done by high-skillpoint characters who bounced between cycles of ganking and then ratting up their status. I was one of those people. However, recently CCP has went down the path of nerfing criminal activity to an extreme extent. This is going to culminate with Retribution, at which point not using an alt to gank would make one a full-blown idiot. I see zero, absolutely no reason to use my main to gank after these changes go live.
You could always kill and pod outlaws without penalty, by the way. I've collected a fair bit of random bounties, even a couple of 100+ million ones, over the years like that. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 02:54:00 -
[243] - Quote
I'm just going to have to ask how exactly everybody else is supposed to or expected to avoid similar instances of unintended PvP? zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5598
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 06:25:00 -
[244] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:I'm just going to have to ask how exactly everybody else is supposed to or expected to avoid similar instances of unintended PvP?
"unintended PvP?" ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 06:35:00 -
[245] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:After the new crimewatch system, anyone anywhere will be able to rightclick me > activate killright. I'm now killable by anyone/everyone. Terminal Insanity wrote:The problem is players are trained from the moment they join the game that NPC's are there to save them. Does anyone else see the irony there? It's definitely not lost on me. For years gankers have maintained that players should be able to police high-sec. Now players wil have some power to do that, and gankers are crying. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5598
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 06:53:00 -
[246] - Quote
The changes themselves aren't really a big deal, other than making those who loot wrecks totally FFA (which is dumb)
It's the spirit of these changes. CCP is selling out to the lowest common denominator - those who feel that they should be able to autopilot their 10b ISK freighters without any risk, those who feel that they should be able to macromine. They'll just keep nerfing everything that can potentially pose a challenge to a hisec carebear, even if they have to make scamming, theft and in-corp ganking bannable offenses.
Then they'll have their carebear paradise that they want, just without the massive player intake they're hoping for (because it's a really terrible game once you peel off all of the player interaction, you see) ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 07:30:00 -
[247] - Quote
Andski wrote:The changes themselves aren't really a big deal, other than making those who loot wrecks totally FFA (which is dumb)
It's the spirit of these changes. CCP is selling out to the lowest common denominator - those who feel that they should be able to autopilot their 10b ISK freighters without any risk, those who feel that they should be able to macromine. They'll just keep nerfing everything that can potentially pose a challenge to a hisec carebear, even if they have to make scamming, theft and in-corp ganking bannable offenses.
Then they'll have their carebear paradise that they want, just without the massive player intake they're hoping for (because it's a really terrible game once you peel off all of the player interaction, you see) Oh knock it off. CCP has not taken away your ability to gank freighters in any way. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2673
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 07:45:00 -
[248] - Quote
Quote: More than that though is the following point that I posit to you in a hypothetical. You enjoy Battlefield 3 for its insane amount of unlocks, the destruction, the vehicles. LetGÇÖs suppose Battlefield 4 removes all of those things.
What a **** argument. This guy purports to be talking to the oldschool Battlefield players, all of whom probably stopped playing the battlefield franchise the day they included stupid **** like unlocks. The only valid point he's made here is vehicles. This guy just lumped in one of the ****** features they stole from Call of Duty as if it was a defining feature of the series. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2015
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 07:53:00 -
[249] - Quote
Andski wrote:The changes themselves aren't really a big deal, other than making those who loot wrecks totally FFA (which is dumb)
I have played other PvP games where you and all what you have (including money) are permanently FFA. It's not so bad, expecially with a group. Groups should be quite easy to get for those who coordinate 10 ships attacks.
Andski wrote: It's the spirit of these changes. CCP is selling out to the lowest common denominator - those who feel that they should be able to autopilot their 10b ISK freighters without any risk, those who feel that they should be able to macromine. They'll just keep nerfing everything that can potentially pose a challenge to a hisec carebear, even if they have to make scamming, theft and in-corp ganking bannable offenses.
1) Stop ganking those freighters if you believe so and sit watching. I am sure that others will do it in your place. 2) The barges EHP buff is both a good thing and a tragedy.
- It's a good thing because ships should be killed based on their unwary owners carrying valuable stuff not because the bare hull is precious yet illogically unprotected. So, logically speaking, this has been a step ahead.
- It's a tragedy because they should have put a credible other risk in place of what they removed. IE make T2 mining mods valuable enough to make it worth killing those ships. IE shift the "I should gank this guy" decision from the bare hull to the contents or mods. Shift, not remove.
Andski wrote: Then they'll have their carebear paradise that they want, just without the massive player intake they're hoping for (because it's a really terrible game once you peel off all of the player interaction, you see)
EvE won't have any massive player intake until it will get it's "Space Far West" flavour back.
- That flavour died the day nullsec became an immense blue ball.
- That flavour died the day hi sec barges / freighter ganks became the only content somewhat news worthy, instead of the epic null sec battle of the past. The gaming websites talk about EvE when epic stuff happens, the quite menial stuff going on these days is not worth any news. Also, Hulkageddon itself now is just old. Too old to still make to the news.
- That flavour died the day nullsec brought so little motion that botters now can mine high ends in such an high security that it's profitability dropped to hi sec levels.
CCP needs to shuffle and redo stuff in nullsec, it's that place that can make EvE inviting again. CCP needs to implement mechanics that make the huge blue balls break and conflict born again.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5600
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 07:57:00 -
[250] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP needs to shuffle and redo stuff in nullsec, it's that place that can make EvE inviting again. CCP needs to implement mechanics that make the huge blue balls break and conflict born again.
it's almost like we've been asking for this through revamps to sovereignty mechanics and POS, which CCP neglect in favor of carebear nonsense like incursions, WiS and crimewatch 2.0 ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5600
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 08:07:00 -
[251] - Quote
Risien Drogonne wrote:Oh knock it off. CCP has not taken away your ability to gank freighters in any way.
Actually, these changes are almost certainly meant to curb freighter ganking. Trying to deny that is just silly.
CCP understands: freighter pilots are dumb, they want to autopilot their net worth between market hubs and straight through choke points. They shouldn't be inconvenienced when somebody smarter than they are decides to take them out. It's an acceptable tradeoff: make the game more idiot-friendly, cross your fingers for new subscriptions, nerf other things or declare them exploits when it doesn't work out the way you hoped. ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2015
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 08:11:00 -
[252] - Quote
Andski wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP needs to shuffle and redo stuff in nullsec, it's that place that can make EvE inviting again. CCP needs to implement mechanics that make the huge blue balls break and conflict born again.
it's almost like we've been asking for this through revamps to sovereignty mechanics and POS, which CCP neglect in favor of carebear nonsense like incursions, WiS and crimewatch 2.0
Well, they have to step up and start delivering content AND fixes not just fixes / old mechanics rehashment.
Also, they take 6 months to implement something negligible like Incursions and some ships rebalance? Helloooo we are in 2012, EACH YEAR we need something grand like WHs / Dominion (the concept, not the crappy implementation we got) and ALSO the due fixes for the past bugged content.
It's not about being too demanding, it's about EvE survival in these times. EvE needs a powerful jump ahead SOON or it'll become as adrenalinic as looking at Madame Tussaud's museum.
Picture EvE as a sandbox
It used to be the sandbox with lots of curious and even bellicose childs building each his own little castle, sometimes stomping the other children ones. When expecially nice castles crumbled this would have made to the news.
These days the sandbox is a museum. Elegant if not a bit stale, we have all those nicely placed shiny and finished castles lined up side by side. An housekeeper every now and them trims the sand a bit, fixes the sand wrinkels with a bit of water and that's it.
A finished, fantastic sandbox more alike to Disneyland than a battlefield. Too bad nothing happens any more, the sand Disneyland is a finished product, it's "final", no evolution nor "life" happens. That's the sympthom of a mature if not decaying design. That's what unevitable happens in a simple hypercapitalistic model: there's *the one* ultimate winner alliance, the game credits and titles roll, time to play another game.
The playerbase needs a furious bull to land on this Disneyland from the sky and stir the whole sandbox anew.
CCP seems totally DEAD in this respect, it's like they are happy to see their game slowly fade while they implement some negligible aesthetic improvement here, an inventory shortcut there and other non-content.
So it's left to GS to save the game. They came to ruin it for everybody else but now they are the only ones who can save it for themselves. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 08:15:00 -
[253] - Quote
Ib4 OP rants about how 'carebears' have ruined...oh wait...
The problem isn't the PvE player, the problem is the players with a lack of balance, wanting ++ber-easy kills for no other reason than to pad a KB and grief others. Eve worked in the past because it offered lots of things to everyone. Now, more and more as time passes, players with an overblown sense of entitlement want to limit that, not because its good for the game, but because its good for them personally.
And FYI, BF3 was a crappy example, its a hunk of rancid ass. It is the greatest inequality to try to make unequal things equal. |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
194
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 08:15:00 -
[254] - Quote
The best part of all of this is many people dont care about how or what. The going with the flow. I know many people that are not forum warrior the like all change i think the change are right to make the change. So only a few forum warriors complaine about it or even knows what happens behind that nobodys cares...... Atleast if the dont make eve online in HKO game. Then i think more people are here to complaine about it. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5600
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 08:31:00 -
[255] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:The problem isn't the PvE player, the problem is the players with a lack of balance, wanting ++ber-easy kills for no other reason than to pad a KB and grief others.
Um, what? Freighter ganking is pretty balanced - it takes several players working in near-unison to pull it off. ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Prince Kobol
636
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 08:38:00 -
[256] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:You guys really don't get that the new kill rights system won't affect ganking at all, do you? That we're simply going to use gank alts exclusively, and since they can be shot at all times already, our bottom lines won't change? That the only people getting affected by these changes will be low-sec pvpers, mercenaries who gank as part of contracts, and newbies who accidentally attack people in high-sec? Blows right past your meagerly-brained noggins, huh?
Do you even know what we're planning to do after Retribution? If you think ganking is a problem today, give us a month. I'm tender and moist just thinking about the threads GD is going to be filled with before the year is over.
Hmm.. If a computer game makes you this excited I think you need to seek professional help |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1535
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 09:37:00 -
[257] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:You guys really don't get that the new kill rights system won't affect ganking at all, do you? That we're simply going to use gank alts exclusively, and since they can be shot at all times already, our bottom lines won't change? That the only people getting affected by these changes will be low-sec pvpers, mercenaries who gank as part of contracts, and newbies who accidentally attack people in high-sec? Blows right past your meagerly-brained noggins, huh?
Do you even know what we're planning to do after Retribution? If you think ganking is a problem today, give us a month. I'm tender and moist just thinking about the threads GD is going to be filled with before the year is over. Hmm.. If a computer game makes you this excited I think you need to seek professional help Carebear rage is the only thing that gets me off anymore. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
437
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 09:39:00 -
[258] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Quote: More than that though is the following point that I posit to you in a hypothetical. You enjoy Battlefield 3 for its insane amount of unlocks, the destruction, the vehicles. LetGÇÖs suppose Battlefield 4 removes all of those things.
What a **** argument. This guy purports to be talking to the oldschool Battlefield players, all of whom probably stopped playing the battlefield franchise the day they included stupid **** like unlocks. The only valid point he's made here is vehicles. This guy just lumped in one of the ****** features they stole from Call of Duty as if it was a defining feature of the series.
Just for the record, I stopped playing in Battlefield Bad Company 2, the last great addition to the Battlefield franchise and only one I actually played. The reason I stopped was because of hacks ruining the playability of the game, but that's only relevant to BFBC2.
I don't remember why I never got into BF3, but I guess it was something I read, and maybe the expense when I already had BFBC2, despite the hacks which would be present in BF3 too. I think I recall seeing a Youtube of them before it was out of beta, but that might have been something else. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
437
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 09:58:00 -
[259] - Quote
Andski wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:The problem isn't the PvE player, the problem is the players with a lack of balance, wanting ++ber-easy kills for no other reason than to pad a KB and grief others. Um, what? Freighter ganking is pretty balanced - it takes several players working in near-unison to pull it off.
I agree. It is an exact process where Alpha per ship is calculated against a set amount of EHP and some coordination is required to put all the ships in place and whack the mole when it pops through.
Precise, but not very challenging once you know what you`re doing, I imagine.
All well and good, but I don`t agree that CCP is changing things to make Highsec carebear heaven. What I believe they are doing, is making Highsec less ganker friendly. Nothing lese changes, but that gankers now have a certain element of the unpredictable added to their activities. That`s all; nothing special.
Everything can proceed exactly as it did before and all the same tactics will work exactly as then, but maybe you might have to watch d-scan and pay attention to local while you`re doing it. Sounds a bit more like Low or Null to me, rather than a safer Highsec.
While I don`t believe it will really be any riskier, (for gankers), most of the time, it will have the potential to be. Maybe those that continue and succeed can actually call themselves Pirates and be respected as such in the future. Currently, a ganker is nothing more than another risk-averse player exploiting mechanics that allow them to place others at extreme risk without suffering any real risk themselves.
So, that will change. Hate for them to miss their appointment, but it might actually happen. That would be new.
Having considered all that, I still don`t see where players are getting this strange idea that highsec will become safer. Seems to me that it will in fact increase in risk by spreading the risk out to more players and opening up more opportunities for PvP.
I do agree that FFA on opening and taking from cans is a bit over the top though. I`m not sure how that is going to work out, but it doesn't sound good.
The plus side, is that CCP seems to have gotten very good at fixing things in short order, if Faction Warfare is any indication, so hopefully all the flaws will be fixed before long.
If you gank me, (or Pirate me as it were), in the future, you're welcome to loot my wreck. If I think of it, I'll probably even blue it for you. It's not like it's going to do me any good having 20 people popping each other over it anyway.
..might be amusing though.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5601
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 10:01:00 -
[260] - Quote
The intent of these changes is to curb hisec ganking. Pretending otherwise is silly. ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
|
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
437
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 10:16:00 -
[261] - Quote
Andski wrote:The intent of these changes is to curb hisec ganking. Pretending otherwise is silly.
Actually, I have some options for you.
~ Using a Blockade runner, align to station on approach to can, loot and spam dock when in range.
~ Using a tanked Iteron V or Mammoth with a decent cargo capacity, park between can and Freighter, jettison safe cans, then cycle the cargo into them while the Iteron becomes the target, the Freighter can safely loot.
~ Use Bumpers to push potential hostiles out of Warp Disrupt range of Looting Freighter who is webbed and Aligned to warp.
Funny how these things are not only transferable, but one can easily come up with new ideas. I like the first and second; the third seems a bit involved. As I don't recall if you can directly transfer from a loot can to a jet can, I hesitate to suggest using a Rifter for the second activity. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
baltec1
Bat Country
2933
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 10:59:00 -
[262] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
1) Stop ganking those freighters if you believe so and sit watching. I am sure that others will do it in your place. 2) The barges EHP buff is both a good thing and a tragedy.
- It's a good thing because ships should be killed based on their unwary owners carrying valuable stuff not because the bare hull is precious yet illogically unprotected. So, logically speaking, this has been a step ahead.
- It's a tragedy because they should have put a credible other risk in place of what they removed. IE make T2 mining mods valuable enough to make it worth killing those ships. IE shift the "I should gank this guy" decision from the bare hull to the contents or mods. Shift, not remove.
The bare hull was never profitable to gank. We did require them to fit the expensive mining mods and no tank to make it profitable. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
155
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:00:00 -
[263] - Quote
Andski wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:The problem isn't the PvE player, the problem is the players with a lack of balance, wanting ++ber-easy kills for no other reason than to pad a KB and grief others. Um, what? Freighter ganking is pretty balanced - it takes several players working in near-unison to pull it off. Frig scans cargo, sees it has expensive items. Gankers lock target while it is on its 40 second spool up time or 15km at 100 m/s trip to gate and fire, someone scoops the wreck. WOW that sounds so complicated... |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1535
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:02:00 -
[264] - Quote
If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
155
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:08:00 -
[265] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience. You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2933
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:10:00 -
[266] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience. You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it.
We are able to do it because people find not putting 5 to 50 billion isk into their hold as complicated as brain surgury. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
155
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:24:00 -
[267] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Schalac wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience. You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it. We are able to do it because people find not putting 5 to 50 billion isk into their hold as complicated as brain surgury. Don't use that tired line. The only reason you are doing it is so you can shout on the forums look at me, look what I can do. It's because you are a bunch of asses that have nothing better to do. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2933
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:30:00 -
[268] - Quote
Schalac wrote: Don't use that tired line. The only reason you are doing it is so you can shout on the forums look at me, look what I can do. It's because you are a bunch of asses that have nothing better to do.
I used the exact same line you did and we do it because of the fantastic amount of isk. It took a month before the first post about our antics was posted by someone who lost their freighter. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
236
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:50:00 -
[269] - Quote
It doesn't really matter what I think or what any of us think. If CCP liked EVE Online better with early 2005, care bearless subscription numbers they can see to it all the nasty filthy care bears make for the cancel sub button. Then we can see "who built EVE". R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1537
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 14:55:00 -
[270] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience. You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it. Have you tried?
Ioci wrote:It doesn't really matter what I think or what any of us think. If CCP liked EVE Online better with early 2005, care bearless subscription numbers they can see to it all the nasty filthy care bears make for the cancel sub button. Then we can see "who built EVE". Just fyi EVE was growing at something like a 150% yearly rate back then. I somehow seriously doubt only escaped prison inmates and mental asylum patients were signing up back then either. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
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