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Lord Zim
2074
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Posted - 2012.11.29 00:20:00 -
[151] - Quote
Red Frog Rufen wrote:what? where?
I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge. What you said was that there was "a big raise in freighter ganking".
Incidentally, there's no direct correlation between the new BCs and freighters being ganked. Freighters weren't suddenly ganked because the new BCs were introduced.
Red Frog Rufen wrote:then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too. As a way to "counter those kills", yes.
You're looking at 2 systems which are "dangerous". So what's wrong with you adapting ever so slightly beyond "hey ccp give us a ship with more HP or we'll quit" by, oh I dunno, bringing logis, ecm, webs, hauling the stuff across those 2 systems in smaller pieces and then go on your merry AFK way etc?
Red Frog Rufen wrote:in which case the 2-3 spares will get you on the next gates... Dock up, rep, continue hauling? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Lord Zim
2074
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Posted - 2012.11.29 00:22:00 -
[152] - Quote
Red Frog Rufen wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: u dnt need a new toy. u need logi
hey, let's test this on the test server, and see how it goes. I keep telling you guys, it'll make no difference. even if it did, that's not why we want new toys. it's not to avoid the gankers. they will always find a way. but give us something to challenge them a little. Yes, making them use a few more people is really challenging them. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
67
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Posted - 2012.11.29 00:31:00 -
[153] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Red Frog Rufen wrote:what? where?
I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge. What you said was that there was "a big raise in freighter ganking". Incidentally, there's no direct correlation between the new BCs and freighters being ganked. Freighters weren't suddenly ganked because the new BCs were introduced. Red Frog Rufen wrote:then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too. As a way to "counter those kills", yes. You're looking at 2 systems which are "dangerous". So what's wrong with you adapting ever so slightly beyond "hey ccp give us a ship with more HP or we'll quit" by, oh I dunno, bringing logis, ecm, webs, hauling the stuff across those 2 systems in smaller pieces and then go on your merry AFK way etc? Red Frog Rufen wrote:in which case the 2-3 spares will get you on the next gates... Dock up, rep, continue hauling?
for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month.
for your second affirmation, of course that could help.
for your third, where do you dock in Niaja? |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
72
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Posted - 2012.11.29 00:38:00 -
[154] - Quote
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month.
for your second affirmation, of course that could help.
for your third, where do you dock in Niaja?
wheres the stats on ganking last year?
dock in next system. gankers will not regroup in the time it takes to warp to a system and then station, considering they cant undock for 15 minutes without being a global target. |
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
67
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Posted - 2012.11.29 00:53:00 -
[155] - Quote
http://eve-kill.net/?a=home&m=9&y=2011&view=kills&scl_id=20 http://eve-kill.net/?a=home&m=8&y=2011&view=kills&scl_id=20 http://eve-kill.net/?a=home&m=7&y=2011&view=kills&scl_id=20
you're making me work hard for my money!
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Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
72
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Posted - 2012.11.29 01:02:00 -
[156] - Quote
im not seeing a particular rise from those months to this month. |
Lord Zim
2074
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Posted - 2012.11.29 01:12:00 -
[157] - Quote
Red Frog Rufen wrote:for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month. Horseshit.
October: 3 the 9th. 1 the 15th. 4 the 16th. 3 the 23rd. 1 the 29th. 5 the 30th. 1 the 31st. November: 1 the 5th. 1 the 13th. 1 the 18th. 1 the 19th. 1 the 21st. 2 the 26th. 3 the 27th.
This pace continues until august the 11th. When was crucible (and by extension the tier 3 BCs) released? What is the actual reason there's any sort of increase whatsoever in freighter ganks? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 01:20:00 -
[158] - Quote
I tried to ask Lord Zim what he believe the maximum value a freighter should carry is but i never got an answer o/ |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
72
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Posted - 2012.11.29 01:29:00 -
[159] - Quote
i answered. 500mil or not much higher.
whatever the cost it takes to gank a freighter, then thats half of what u can take before the gankers can expect to break even. |
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 01:46:00 -
[160] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I tried to ask Lord Zim what he believe the maximum value a freighter should carry is but i never got an answer It's been answered multiple times. Statistically, half the cargo drops, take what you need to spend to gank it and double it, and you've got a bare minimum for ganking a freighter. Since this is a bare minimum for a statistical break-even. This is not a sustainable pricepoint. A more realistic for-profit price point is 3-4x the cost of the ships+modules needed to gank the freighter.
This doesn't stop people from ganking you just because, since that's how eve is. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 02:15:00 -
[161] - Quote
If its only 500 million why does it cost 1,5 billion? o/ |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
72
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Posted - 2012.11.29 02:40:00 -
[162] - Quote
supply/demand
the hulk costs 200mil but can be ganked by a couple of thrashers
i cant even remember if it was in this thread or another, but ive already said, the cost of the ship and the cost to gank are independent.
just because a ship is expensive, like a hulk, doesnt mean it should be hard to gank. and just because a ship is cheap, doesnt mean it should be easy to gank. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 02:51:00 -
[163] - Quote
You have to understand that CCP leaves players no choice when it comes to freighters atm. At least you can choose to use a procurer instead for mining o/ |
Lord Zim
2074
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Posted - 2012.11.29 02:59:00 -
[164] - Quote
Except, of course, we have jumpfreighters. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:03:00 -
[165] - Quote
They are not an upgrade o/ |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
72
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:03:00 -
[166] - Quote
and logi, and scouts, and webs, and ecm and the choice to haul less per trip or use more freighters at once.
u've come straight to the forums before even trying any of these |
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:05:00 -
[167] - Quote
Souisa wrote:They are not an upgrade transports are apparently also not an upgrade from normal industrials. vOv Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:06:00 -
[168] - Quote
You cant seriously be suggesting that people get alts, on top of paying 1.5 bil for a ship to haul more than 500 million worth of cargo through high-sec? o/ |
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:08:00 -
[169] - Quote
Who said anything about the soft limit being as low as 500m? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:10:00 -
[170] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:and logi, and scouts, and webs, and ecm and the choice to haul less per trip or use more freighters at once.
u've come straight to the forums before even trying any of these
Lets see.
First of all, logi is not really an option. It becomes hard to rep the alpha strikes of ganks. Scouts is not an option either, Uedama is basically locked down. You know what you are gonna get when you go through there. Im not sure webs was intended to make the haulers insta warps, i mean id like to see an official response from CCP saying that everything is fine since people can just web their freighter with an alt. Hauling less per trip.. sure, but why havent they made a fittable freighter then? o/ |
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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:11:00 -
[171] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Who said anything about the soft limit being as low as 500m?
Dont be dumb o/ |
Beta Miner
COBRA Logistics Outer-Haven
2
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:17:00 -
[172] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Except, of course, we have jumpfreighters.
Souisa wrote:They are not an upgrade
Lord Zim wrote: transports are apparently also not an upgrade from normal industrials. vOv ThatGÇÖs it! There is the crux of this issue.
Industrials nicely upgrade into transports. But there is a -huge- gap between transports and freighters. Many of the detractors of this argument say the intermediate step between freighters and transports is the Orca. Honestly, thatGÇÖs not really true, or at least not efficient. The orca, as a hauler, has a huge amount of superfluous training the pilot has to do as well as extra capability the pilot has to pay for (corp hanger, leadership bonusGÇÖs) but doesn't need for hauling.
This argument is that we donGÇÖt want a deep space mining command ship when we need delivery truck.
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Lord Zim
2074
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:18:00 -
[173] - Quote
Souisa wrote:It becomes hard to rep the alpha strikes of ganks. Ganks aren't alpha strikes.
Souisa wrote:Im not sure webs was intended to make the haulers insta warp, i mean id like to see an official response from CCP saying that everything is fine since people can just web their freighter with an alt. It has been known and acknowledged by CCP for years.
Souisa wrote:Hauling less per trip.. sure, but why havent they made a fittable freighter then? Nothing's stopping you from not filling the freighter to the brim at every opportunity.
But I guess that would mean actually adapting.
Souisa wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Who said anything about the soft limit being as low as 500m? Dont be dumb So most ganks are done by 100-250m worth of ships? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:20:00 -
[174] - Quote
What lord zim apparantly fail to realise is that you dont even have to fill the freighter to the brim before becomming a target for ganks o/ |
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:22:00 -
[175] - Quote
Souisa wrote:What lord zim apparantly fail to realise is that you dont even have to fill the freighter to the brim before becomming a target for ganks Tell us more about how a freighter with 500m in its cargohold is something which is profitable to gank with tier 3 BCs. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:23:00 -
[176] - Quote
Ask the guy who suggested it, else feel free to give us your estimate o/ |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
72
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:23:00 -
[177] - Quote
cause fittable freighters would suck. we've been through this.
if u know exactly whats going to happen when u jump into system, why are u still going in? thats dumb
ur filling ur freighters with valuable cargo, valuable enough to make it profitable to gank, and then going into systems that u know are a hot spots for ganking with no scouts or escorts...u have no right to judge anyones intelligence |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
54
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:25:00 -
[178] - Quote
Which route do you suggest instead? From Jita to Hek pls o/ |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
72
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Posted - 2012.11.29 03:30:00 -
[179] - Quote
ive never loaded my freighter with enough to worry about uedema, so i have no idea...why dnt u set uedema to ur avoid list and see what comes up?
it may take longer, but at least u wont lose it all |
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:32:00 -
[180] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Ask the guy who suggested it, else feel free to give us your estimate 7-8 tier 3 BCs * 2 is the bare minimum to statistically break even, you'd want 3-4x to make money.
How you can possibly go from that to "hurr 500m in the cargohold means you will reliably get shot for profit", I've no idea. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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