Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Question2
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:18:00 -
[1]
I dont know if you even see this as a problem,but i though it was pretty obvious.
One one side,you have the normal pirates.Guristas,blood raiders,sansha.......
On the other you have angels.
Whats the difference?
Anyone who has fought angels will know they are tough and hard to tank.
Anyone who has fought,say guristas,then fought angels will get a pretty nice surprise.Then they will go back to guristas.
Its pretty obvious....angels are the hardest rats.Other rats are much easier to kill.Why?
Well for one,they do all types of damage.To actually effectively tank them(especially the higher ones....),you need 4 hardeners instead of the normal 2.This pretty much makes it imposible to fully tank them,most people can only run 2,maybe 3 hardeners,then just try and kill the rats that do the non-hardened damage type first.
Might just be imagination,but angels do seem to have better resists and faster speed as well.
There is one golden rule in RPGs.The greater the obstacle,the bigger the reward for overcoming it.
But it doesnt apply here.
Are the bounties better?Nope.Is the loot better?Also the same...no.
In summary,what we have are angels,that are the hardest pirate faction in the game,and no reason to go after them unless you have to.
There is no reason to kill angels compared to guristas.The guristas rats will drop equavelent loot,the same bounties,and be much easier to kill.
Why hunt angels?Why make earning money harder for you?Why not just go hunt guristas or some other pirate factions?All these questions have no good answers.
Conclusion : Since angels are much harder to kill than the other pirate factions, and no incentive exists to encourage people to kill them,an imbalance exists.
Solution : Either bring angels down to the level of other NPC rats,or increase their rewards considering their difficulty compared to other NPC rats.
|
Winterblink
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:20:00 -
[2]
I should print this out and frame it as a monument to mediocrity.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Amthrianius on 26/04/2005 19:25:17 Question2 are any of your posts more than just whining?
I wonder why you play this game if you whine so much about it ---------------
|
Righteous Fury
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:26:00 -
[4]
And I thought I whined a lot.
|
Beringe
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:27:00 -
[5]
If angels are as tough as all that, it would stand to reason that the loot that they drop would become rarer, and thus more valuable.
------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
anter
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:40:00 -
[6]
I think most here are missing hes point that angels are considerable harder, but reward is less. Golden Ration is displeased
|
Akaviri
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:48:00 -
[7]
From the backstory:
Operating from the heart of the Curse region, the Angel Cartel is today the largest and best organized of the space-based criminal factions.
Why should they be balanced? They are a bigger pirate faction than any other and they have the best organization. IMO, they should be a little harder to fight than other npcs. If you don't like the challenge, then don't fight them.
Originally by: Question2
There is no reason to kill angels compared to guristas.The guristas rats will drop equavelent loot,the same bounties,and be much easier to kill.
Some people like a challenge. Angels aren't really all that hard to kill anyway.
````````````` _ |\_ ````````````` \` oo\ ````````_____/ =__Y= `````` /` `````` ) `_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/) ((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x) `------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
Question2
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:50:00 -
[8]
Might i draw your attention to the following :
Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.
Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts which are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing an "in character" dispute become an "out of character" personal attack. The game is designed for role playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum, please, unless it is clearly a mutual, in character exchange.
# Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the members of the forum community. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not convey a friendly attitude.
Thank you.
As stated in my post,it all comes down to this : angels are harder to kill than other NPC rats,but there is no extra rewards to compensate for the increased difficulty.In exaggerated terms,this would be like killing one angel BS and one guristas BS,with the angel one doing twice as much damage,with twice as much HP,but both have the same bounties and loot.
The only thing that can be considered "angel loot" would be items like domination or gistii modules,which are hardly fair comparison(domination spawns are nearly unheard of and gistii mods are bugged).All too often they drop items like basic cargo expanders or normal 220mm vulcans.
|
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:51:00 -
[9]
Rule 5:
Ranting is prohibited A rant is a post which is long-winded, redundant and filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
---------------
|
Beringe
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:52:00 -
[10]
Aren't angels the biggest supply of named projectiles? I know that once upon a time, they were the best place to get named MWDs as well.
Besides, all NPCs drop crap most of the time. That's not limited to angels. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:52:00 -
[11]
Stop bashing the newbie, guys, it's against rule 16
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Jiggy
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:52:00 -
[12]
They use projectiles and projectiles are known to be the hardest to tank, the imbalance is in the weapons they use not in their ease or hardness to kill.So they cant be changed unless you want projectiles to only have 2 damage types instead of all 4.
|
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Beringe Aren't angels the biggest supply of named projectiles? I know that once upon a time, they were the best place to get named MWDs as well.
Besides, all NPCs drop crap most of the time. That's not limited to angels.
Angels drop projectiles and suege launchers
which are the most cotly to buy items, thus ANgels are more profitable ^_^
Not to mention their commander/officer/complex stuff is the uber ---------------
|
Question2
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akaviri From the backstory:
Operating from the heart of the Curse region, the Angel Cartel is today the largest and best organized of the space-based criminal factions.
Why should they be balanced? They are a bigger pirate faction than any other and they have the best organization. IMO, they should be a little harder to fight than other npcs. If you don't like the challenge, then don't fight them.
Originally by: Question2
There is no reason to kill angels compared to guristas.The guristas rats will drop equavelent loot,the same bounties,and be much easier to kill.
Some people like a challenge. Angels aren't really all that hard to kill anyway.
Yes,i thought someone would quote the fluff.
As it is,thats just that.RUMOURS.Nobody knows if they have jovian ships or mods.Even if there was a chronicle explictly stating it,balance is hardly based on fluff.
Imagine if the fluff said jovians like attacking pilots randomly.Now imagine if the same jovians suddenly came out of nowhere to gank your ship.They cannot be jammed,have a million armor and shields and can insta kill a normal battleship in one volley from their guns which also can hit a shuttle orbiting at 500m with ease.
The fluff explains it perfectly fine,but that doesnt mean its balanced.
Once again,there is -no- ingame reason to fight them,other than "i want to".Thats a pretty weak reason.There has to be a good reason to actually fight them.The same thing could be said for everything.Suppose if all minmatar ships suddenly died to 1 shot from a civilian gatling gun?Well then,the "i want to" reason still holds true,but for pratical,ingame purposes,there is no longer any reason to use minmatar ships.
|
Beringe
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Amthrianius
which are the most cotly to buy items, thus ANgels are more profitable ^_^
Exactly. Demand/supply to the rescue. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Gierling
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:59:00 -
[16]
I'd like to see the regional thing watered down a little. Make 1 in 10 spawns out of character for that region to represent turf wars.
I doubt the Guristas and Serpentis like each other that much to be honost.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Question2
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:59:00 -
[17]
Yes im sure the original post was full of "angry" comments and there was absolutely no room for discussion.On the other hand the "OMG YOU WHINE" comments clearly fall under flames,trolling and other stuff.......hmm.......
Little lesson on NPCs :
They dont use mods.They dont actually use projectiles.Its all a matter of graphics.They are made the old school way.....a set of hard coded damage,HP and tracking values.You can change the graphics for a sansha ship to projectiles but it would still do EM/thermal and have exact same stats.Thus,it cannot be said that they use "projectiles".Even if they did,its no excuse,theres no reason to kill them.If by virtue of the fact that they use projectiles and are thus,harder,the rewards shoudl be greater.
The difference,if there is any in the first place,between a projectile and hybrid/laser turret in terms of "worth" is near nil anyway.Nobody who kills a angel cruiser and gets a 425mm AC is going to jump for joy anymore than if they killed a guristas rat and got a blaster of the same type.
|
Neon Genesis
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:02:00 -
[18]
Yeh lets kill everything interesting in the game!!
Then ourselves!!!!! __
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
|
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:04:00 -
[19]
Based on your logic then, ccp should nerf projectiles for players aswell as they are unfair as they can do any damage type and thus are harder to tank in pvp
Think --> Post
Not
Post --> Think ---------------
|
Joshua Foiritain
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 26/04/2005 20:05:06
Originally by: Question2 Yes im sure the original post was full of "angry" comments and there was absolutely no room for discussion.On the other hand the "OMG YOU WHINE" comments clearly fall under flames,trolling and other stuff.......hmm.......
Little lesson on NPCs :
They dont use mods.They dont actually use projectiles.Its all a matter of graphics.They are made the old school way.....a set of hard coded damage,HP and tracking values.You can change the graphics for a sansha ship to projectiles but it would still do EM/thermal and have exact same stats.Thus,it cannot be said that they use "projectiles".Even if they did,its no excuse,theres no reason to kill them.If by virtue of the fact that they use projectiles and are thus,harder,the rewards shoudl be greater.
The difference,if there is any in the first place,between a projectile and hybrid/laser turret in terms of "worth" is near nil anyway.Nobody who kills a angel cruiser and gets a 425mm AC is going to jump for joy anymore than if they killed a guristas rat and got a blaster of the same type.
Lol if you cant actually come up with any good reasons as to why they should be nerfed then dont post.
Apart from that; Angels have Jovian technology. Theyre stronger then the rest and thats a good thing. Deal with it or move back to empire space and practice shooting frigates some more.
Anyone with half a battleship can kill Angels.
So since theyre just as easy to kill as any other type of NPC's their rewards are also fine. ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
|
Nemiona
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:20:00 -
[21]
I agree that the angels are harder than the other rats, an angel lvl 5 complex is a quite nasty experience compared to others. But I think its just fine that way, -less people there
------ The future, according to some scientists, will be exactly like the past, only far more expensive. John Sladek |
Grievance
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:30:00 -
[22]
if angels have jovian technology, why don't they drop jovian technology?
What the poster is getting at is, if they are so much harder (which they are), but they aren't using better equivilent equipment (which they aren't), why are they so hard?
Surely bounties placed on rats are in relation to their difficulty, for example, a normal frig is only worth ~4k, but a scrambling inty is worth ~25k due to the increased technology in the enemies ships and the increased difficulty. However, while comparing them to other races (sansha, guristas whatever) they seem to be rated at the same difficulty by concord.
Let me draw some parallel to real life (gasp!). while some Joe Average sloppy murderer may have a bounty of 0 isk. ***** Bin Laden has one of what $50 mil? they are both murderers (battleships), sorta, so why aren't they valued at such an (un)great amount?
Because one is harder to catch (kill) than the other.
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |
Cmdr Sy
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:33:00 -
[23]
EMP L Round
EM Damage: 20 hp Explosive Damage: 16 hp Kinetic Damage: 8 hp
The angels are not unbalanced. Multispectral damage is simply a consequence of the technology they use, which is also available to players.
|
Al Haquis
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:36:00 -
[24]
If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen.
I personaly like the challange , and having to think when your hunting instead of point and click.
btw you ***** more then my dead grandmother and thats alot.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Council Member, Tahiri Warrior Masuat'aa Forums
|
Jiggy
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Grievance What the poster is getting at is, if they are so much harder (which they are), but they aren't using better equivilent equipment (which they aren't), why are they so hard?
Projectiles use all 4 damage types therefore they are harder to tank so if you want angels to be easier to tank they would have to lose 2 damage types, they arent harder to kill they just do more damage to tanked ships.
|
Winterblink
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:39:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Winterblink on 26/04/2005 20:40:57 I think the reason people go on the warpath in response to threads like these is because if you look at a week's worth of new threads to this forum you'll find calls for "balance" about every single aspect of EVE.
If the developers had a "listen to the playerbase" week and took all of these "suggestions" as gospel, we could insta-jump with infinite cap around the single system in the game that has unlimited roids. And as we fire the one gun available in the game hitting for a million points of uni-damage against all the other immortal players, the only screams we hear will be the cpu fans on the billing server, under the load of all the subscription cancellations.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:40:00 -
[27]
Ehm they're minnie based. Funny how, people say the things that make angels hard to fight are absolutely useless features of being minmatar.
And you hunt angels if you want projectiles, or good speed modules, or any of the other stuff angels got the best drops for.
And for sure my minnie is a lot happier about getting good projectile drops then blaster drops... seeing as he can use one, and not the other. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 20:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 26/04/2005 20:40:57 I think the reason people go on the warpath in response to threads like these is because if you look at a week's worth of new threads to this forum you'll find calls for "balance" about every single aspect of EVE.
If the developers had a "listen to the playerbase" week and took all of these "suggestions" as gospel, we could insta-jump with infinite cap around the single system in the game that has unlimited roids. And as we fire the one gun available in the game hitting for a million points of uni-damage against all the other immortal players, the only screams we hear will be the cpu fans on the billing server, under the load of all the subscription cancellations.
LMAO ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Parallax Error
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 21:08:00 -
[29]
Oh dear....... a pirate faction where you have to expect all damage types instead of just 2? Thats just so bad..... I mean, actually having to think about a setup instead of using twin hardeners for 2 damage types.
Thats inhuman it really is, infact I'd go one further. I think that in addition all players should also only be allowed to dish out 2 damage types.
I'd love to see just one post from you that isn't a complete whinge fest about everything and anything that isn't setup to jump in your lap and roll over as soon as your mouse pointer goes near it.
|
Liu Kaskakka
|
Posted - 2005.04.26 21:24:00 -
[30]
buhu2u mr question..
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |