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Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
1
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Posted - 2012.11.26 04:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, so everyone knows the typical arguments against being able to properly pilot your ship in Eve: server load. The servers couldn't handle all the data from player's joysticks, blah blah blah. Well listen up CCP - It's about to be done successfully!
Everyone remembers Elite and Frontier from the 80's and 90's. I am sure Eve even owes some of its heritage and inspiration to that game. Well Elite: Dangerous is in production, it's now online multiplayer, and you have direct, realtime control of your ship. It's gonna take David Braben at Frontier Developments 2 years to finish the game. So there you have it CCP - you have 2 years to do something about this and give us proper control of our ships so we can feel like we're actually piloting them, and not just telling the flight computer what straight line to fly in.
The consequences of not addressing this sorely lacking feature in Eve will be pilots leaving to play Elite Dangerous in 2014. Consider this your heads-up!
Here's the proof it CAN be done:
Elite Dangerous Dev Video
AC.
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Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
70
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Posted - 2012.11.26 04:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lots of other reasons not to also, I don't think the control scheme would work unless you were locked facing forward. Then, you would miss out on most of what was going on. Eve isn't a flight simulator its a 1 person RTS. I wouldn't fly my rifter with a joystick if I could, I wouldnt know whats going on. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
1
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Posted - 2012.11.26 05:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
I respectfully disagree Ted. I think you'll find that once they (Frontier) have the HUD working, it will show you what's going on all around you, just like the old Elite and Frontier used to with the 3D 360-degree radar - something else Eve really needs. And Eve is about flying spaceships (mainly). And when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of piloting a ship, especially something fast like a Rifter, the pilot experience would be greatly enhanced with full real-time control. It's only become an RTS because of the control limitations. And those controls are fine for large craft. But for PvP in small frigs, surely being able to actually pilot your ship has gotta be more fun than "click this button, click that, wait, oh he clicked that so i have to click this..." i mean really. I honestly think that Eve would benefit from having both control systems - the point and click for the big ships, and then manual piloting available for the smaller ones. We'd have the best of both worlds! |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
70
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Posted - 2012.11.26 05:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Apollo Cochrane wrote:I respectfully disagree Ted. I think you'll find that once they (Frontier) have the HUD working, it will show you what's going on all around you, just like the old Elite and Frontier used to with the 3D 360-degree radar - something else Eve really needs. And Eve is about flying spaceships (mainly). And when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of piloting a ship, especially something fast like a Rifter, the pilot experience would be greatly enhanced with full real-time control. It's only become an RTS because of the control limitations. And those controls are fine for large craft. But for PvP in small frigs, surely being able to actually pilot your ship has gotta be more fun than "click this button, click that, wait, oh he clicked that so i have to click this..." i mean really. I honestly think that Eve would benefit from having both control systems - the point and click for the big ships, and then manual piloting available for the smaller ones. We'd have the best of both worlds!
Im sure it will work for frontier just fine like it did for x3.
However radar is unnecessary in eve since your entire main camera would act in the same way and can give you multiple views of the battle that are easily manipulable all the while still driving you ship. In elite since you manually aim your guns having a first person fighter perspective is a good idea. In eve your controls need to be completely automated do to the nature of the combat. In my dramiel when im trying to not be webbed by someone and I pull up what happens? Does my camera do a rapid 180 and I am now going directly away from my enemy to safety? Or did I overshoot and now I did a back flip and am going down into the transversal of someones guns? Meanwhile with the current control scheme I can quickly flip my camera backwards and double click. How easily can I maintain a proper orbit on someone while maintaining tactical awareness and managing my modules capacitor use/overload. What if im stopped? how do I turn?
Maybe i would use it if im dicking around but it's practicality in eve combat would be minimal. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
28
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 06:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
If by "things like a rifter" you mean "Pretty much only rifters" then yes, totally.
There are like... half a dozen ships in this game that would actually benefit from this (the few combat frigates people actually use), and it's such a major development drain that I don't see how it would be worth it for that.
AND since your weapons cannot be controlled manually (if they were, it would defeat the whole mechanism of brain implants etc. and having your pilot have "skills" separate from your own actual aiming skills, etc.), it wouldn't even really be all that fun to be in first person. If you can't even push the trigger and get instant pew pew, then it doesn't seem so great. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1155
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 07:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
See: Technical Limitations.
The server receives and sends data once per second. This makes "dogfighting" as seen in flight simulators all but impossible as they require MUCH, MUCH faster input/output responses. However... it makes large fleet battles scale VERY well because their is only so much information that the server needs to receive and calculate things (all calculations are done server-side... all you see are the graphical interpretations of said calculations).
Put it another way... imagine playing Flight Simulator at 1 fame per second. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Dawn DiDacyria
Hybrid Flare strange tactical and research syndicate
4
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Posted - 2012.11.26 09:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
No.
Why? Because EVE isn't a "dogfight" space simulator game, It's a full MMO game with character Skills paving the way to your success or lack thereof. A dog-fight type game would remove that and set the skill set in the hands of the player and not the character.
If Elite: Dangerous does make it to market I will most assuredly play it but I also will not give up on EVE as the two games will be very different from each other, so far as basically being completely different types of games.
EVE makes flying simple and sets all the effort into learning and testing various ship fits and getting the character skills needed for these as well as having manufacturing and trading and all other aspects governed by those same skills.
Elite will most likely stay on the same path as the original two releases, which I think is a great path, but with the added concept of being able to fly around with other people too and with modern graphics and technology used. It will be more about getting your hands dirty kind of game with learning to control your ship both in space and in planetary stratos/atmospheres. Mining will be more of setting mining-modules on an asteroid and coming back later to pick the ore up. Trading will be done not by setting a good price in a localized market like EVE has (despite various regions) but getting something from one economic area to another economic area to make a profit from it (much like having import/export in our own world) with all economic areas having completely different market prices.
Elite and EVE are just completely different games and trying to get one thing from one to the other would in my opinion just be a mistake as it either requires complete rewriting of the basic codes or just won't fit with the current structure of how said game is set up.
Cheers |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
808
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 10:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Apollo Cochrane wrote:Ok, so everyone knows the typical arguments against being able to properly pilot your ship in Eve: server load. The servers couldn't handle all the data from player's joysticks, blah blah blah. Well listen up CCP - It's about to be done successfully! Everyone remembers Elite and Frontier from the 80's and 90's. I am sure Eve even owes some of its heritage and inspiration to that game. Well Elite: Dangerous is in production, it's now online multiplayer, and you have direct, realtime control of your ship. It's gonna take David Braben at Frontier Developments 2 years to finish the game. So there you have it CCP - you have 2 years to do something about this and give us proper control of our ships so we can feel like we're actually piloting them, and not just telling the flight computer what straight line to fly in. The consequences of not addressing this sorely lacking feature in Eve will be pilots leaving to play Elite Dangerous in 2014. Consider this your heads-up! Here's the proof it CAN be done: Elite Dangerous Dev VideoAC.
I'm pretty sure they won't be having a thousand pilots in one battle, let alone on each side like we get in EVE sometimes... |
Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 15:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nope. Sorry. You haven't sold me. Still disagree.
Ok, you know, these are all very good points. And i'm not suggesting turning Eve into Elite. I love the skill system and the ship-equip system. But I guess what I am asking the devs to consider is a way to integrate the OPTION of manual piloting for dog fighting. I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean they created an entirely new environment for Incarna (the inside of the station) so don't tell me they couldn't incorporate an additional piloting system. And not to compare this to Incarna, but the whole "walking in stations" thing could have been great if they'd been allowed to develop it, but no, people had to whine and complain about change - you know why? Because they were so stuck in the past that they couldn't imagine a better future. It's a human failing, I'm afraid. A genetic trait that makes you feel comfortable in your metaphoric nest - a survival instinct. One that is sorely misplaced here, in this game. We could have been having Corp meetings in virtual person on a STATION by now if it wasn't for their narrow-mindedness, instead of using Teamspeak or whatever happens to be your client of choice. We could have been buying and selling in actual shops, instead of using an antiquated database list. So yeah, thanks for that.
The way it is now, it doesn't really take much skill to fight so far as piloting goes. The skill element does come into play in so far as knowledge of the game and of the options that are available to you where ship equipment is concerned. Once you've learned that, and your character is old enough to have gotten the required skills for those modules, you just turn them on. I guess the skill comes in to play when you have to know which ones to use and when. But once you have that knowledge and your character is old enough and has trained enough skills, it's basically the same as using a cheat code in a single-player game. A 5-year-old clone is gonna have what amounts to an unfair advantage over a a 1-year-old clone, purely because they are older.
Now, that sounds obvious, but what I am trying to say is that you could take an Eve vet, take them out of their regular character, give them a brand new character and they'd lose every fight, purely because that character can't equip as good modules as an older clone, or fly as powerful a ship as an older clone. The actual SKILL of the player as a pilot doesn't even come into play. And when you consider that most of the game is about flying spaceships, that's kinda crazy. It smacks of nothing more than game limitations at the time the game was originally conceived 10 years ago. Well, computers and servers and internet connections are all just a tiny bit faster than they were 10 years ago! And btw, David Braben talks about "a huge amount of players" being involved in fights, so don't assume anything yet - we have no idea - for all we know at this point it could very well mean thousands.
Well, the technology is available now - David Braben is proving it. And you know, we all call ourselves "pilots". Doesn't anyone remember what that word actually means? Well here's a reminder:
pilot noun 1. a person duly qualified to steer ships into or out of a harbor or through certain difficult waters. 2. a person who steers a ship. 3. Aeronautics . a person duly qualified to operate an airplane, balloon, or other aircraft. 4. to steer. 5. to control the course of
Does that sound like what we do in Eve? No it does not. And yet it's a spaceship game. Go figure.
So what I am saying is this. No one is suggesting removing skills - in fact you'd need more skills related to piloting that would affect the performance of your craft. What I AM saying is that we need to inject the piloting aspect of flying a ship into the existing game that is after all supposed to be about flying a ship. It could even be optional for the player. If they so chose they could just stick to the old point and click routine. But I guarantee you they wouldn't last long against someone who chose to manually fly their ship, and who is able to steer and aim and dodge and perform skilled evasive maneuvers. I know, I know, actually flying your ship would involve real life skill. OMG. Heaven forbid we actually have to use some real skill of our own as a player and not that of a character. I am telling you right now guys, winning a PvP fight would be sooo much more satisfying this way, because you would know you have beaten the PLAYER and not just their character's skill set and equipment list.
Don't be a sheep: Be brave.
"Fly" safe!
AC
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Rocker Will
Roid Rage Academy Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
1
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Posted - 2012.11.26 15:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
im one for tht idea, but i wreckon the ability to literallly steer your ship should only apply to the smaller ship types or maybe be a feature u can switch between so then everybody is happy :) |
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Lan Staz
Aperture Harmonics K162
18
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Posted - 2012.11.26 15:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
This kind of thing could be introduced as a stand-alone game in the Eve universe, based on the idea of piloting fighters & fighter bombers off carriers. It should be a casual, drop-in-and-play affair to bring back some of the World of Tanks crew. It would also be great if there was an "embedded" version in the Eve client so you can play it while docked up or floating at a POS. |
Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
92
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 16:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maybe you should play Elite then. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 16:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rocker Will wrote:im one for tht idea, but i wreckon the ability to literallly steer your ship should only apply to the smaller ship types or maybe be a feature u can switch between so then everybody is happy :)
Agreed. |
Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 17:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:Maybe you should play Elite then.
What was I just saying about narrow-mindedness? Case-in-point. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10733
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 17:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't think it's possible with Eve's code and how it ticks over on the server. It would require a massive change in code and hardware.
So sorry, it'll most likely never happen.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
MarkyJ
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 17:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Let there be no misconceptions; I love X3: TC, am watching Star citizen with intererst and will probably get Elite:dangerous when it comes out.
At the same time, I see this sort of joystick control level of flying as a bit of a niche thing in EVE. Most frigates would benefit, some destroyers and a few particularly fast and agile cruisers. I would like to see it put in place for the smaller ship classes. In an ideal world then yes I'd like to see that as an option.
But accounting for the fact that this is not an ideal world? Not worth the time/resources. It would take developer time to get this in place. Time that could be spent on other things (re-balancing the remaining ships, finding a cure to the plague of drop-down menus, etc...). I'd much rather see that time and effort spent elsewhere.
And CCP could bankrupt itself on this. EVE runs on a 1 second server tick. I've played a twitch-manual control flight sim with a 1 second tick. The delay between me issuing an instruction and the ship even trying to act it out made it damn near unplayable with a joystick. This means that to make joystick style piloting work, the servers need to be sped-up (probably by at least 10x). To increase the server speed means new hardware. A LOT of new hardware. A ridiculous amount of new hardware. Otherwise, Ti-Di often rears it's ugly head because the servers fail to keep up even now. Imagine the effect it would have on larger fights if the servers had to work even faster.
It simply can't be done on EVE's scale with CCP's resources.
Especially not when dedicated games (like those mentioned above) would probably do this sort of fighter combat better anyway.
tl;dr Nice idea but practically, I'd rather the devs focused on other things |
Kuro Bon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 17:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
OP - There are many many reasons FPS is not suitable to MMO style gameplay. It has nothing to do with space. WoW, AoC, Lineage, and dozens of MMOs are all third-person-click-targeting for a reason.
(1) it's hard to be social and chat when you have to stare at the screen constantly to play
(2) it's hard to read and type into chat when you have to keep aiming at a target
(3) it's hard to get a human to stare at a crosshair for the thousands of hours MMO gameplay normally engenders
(4) aiming is a skill, not a tough decision
..I could go on. If you disagree, go look at Jmpgate Evo which went 'back to the drawing board' on their FPS space mmo and still hasn't shipped. FPS MMO isn't going to happen. If it does, it isn't going to be an "MMO" like we think of them here.
DUST-514 is a more interesting take on blending FPS gameplay and MMO. IMO it looks more like, and will appeal more to, the call-of-duty crowd than the MMO crowd. Which is a good thing, there are lots of those players. I just don't think it'll 'feel much like' an MMO. 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour. -áIt's more efficient to work at starbucks.-á Playing the game doesn't advance skills, kinda like ProgressQuest. |
Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 18:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think a compromise might be in order here. The "manual piloting" option could be limited like we've said, to just the smallest of ships - frigs and dessies, or maybe even just frigs? That way, it not only makes sense realism-wise, but it also limits the amount of ships that are being flown this way at any given time, and thereby lessens the server load. I don't know how CCP would implement a faster server - I am not an IT professional (obviously). But I refuse to believe it's impossible. If Frontier Developments can do it on a shoestring budget, surely CCP can?
The way I would implement it in the client would be that there would be a Manual Control module which could only be fitted to frigs. The module would of course require certain skills to operate, just like any other. When activated in space, it would enable the joystick flight system.
Players and even entire corps could specialize in being combat pilots. Technical difficulties aside, just imagine being in a battle and you call in your combat squadron. What an awesome sight it would be as they engaged the enemy.
Technology is improving all the time. It's finally possible to do this. It just takes the will to do it.
But you know what - I have a sad feeling that you guys are totally correct and CCP are not even gonna bother with it. Come 2014, we'll see Eve get left behind in the dust of Elite: Dangerous, and gradually, the player count of Eve will diminish as people talk about and share their Elite: Dangerous experiences, and more and more players move over to the vastly superior gameplay experience that Elite: Dangerous will by then offer.
I tried.
AC
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10733
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 18:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Just because Eve isn't twitch based play, doesn't mean it's dated and will die. There are many shooters out there, some are third person, some first. It doesn't mean one type will die without change.
Eve works the way it's now coded, for large fleet fights etc. This means twitch based coding and hardware is not possible atm, due to time and cash. Also due to the fact, it's not that type of game.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
30
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 19:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Apollo Cochrane wrote: But I guess what I am asking the devs to consider is a way to integrate the OPTION of manual piloting for dog fighting. I don't see anything wrong with it.
What's wrong with it is that such a change would require a LOT of coding and development and testing. And that means that there is a major opportunity cost involved in doing what you ask for. Making dogfight an option means we DON'T get a bunch of other cool stuff.
Thus, this change has to be weighed against the other things we could have gotten with the same dev time. And since this adds almost nothing to actual strategy or anything (since you cant aim your own weapons anyway, etc. for balance reasons), it equates to a poor investment of time (too little reward for that high opportunity cost)
Quote:Well, the technology is available now - David Braben is proving it. Technology being available does NOT mean that technology is CHEAP, or that it comes without tradeoffs.
The technology exists for me to have a personal helicopter that I could commute to work with. And doing so would be awesome. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea for me to buy one. The cost would be so high in terms of other things I would have to give up, that it would be bad overall. |
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Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 19:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm sorry but there is a good chance Elite: Dangerous will kill Eve. It certainly has the potential. Eve pilots love shiny new ships, guns and ammo, buying and selling stuff, being b@stards to each other. Elite has all that plus landing on planets, and full flight control. Once Eve players start to see how good it's going to be (by then) they will jump ship for a much shinier one, quicker than you can say "oops we should have listened to Apollo". You don't have to believe me (I already know you don't) but just wait and see... Plus you're forgetting something. WoW has a HUGE player base. Eve does not. It wouldn't take much to put a significant dent in that number. And like I said, Elite could easily do that. Especially if it doesn't require a subscription.
And Crimeo, someone's always got a better idea of how the devs' time should be spent. Well maybe it should be spent on something that benefits everyone at every level, and not just by fixing some little bug that 0.3% of players care about? Besides, all in all, I think Eve's in good shape at the moment. They've already pretty much fixed the ships. A better (less Windows-like) UI would be nice, but other than that it's pretty good.
Anyway, whatever. Like I said, we'll have to wait and see what happens. Just remember I told you so. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
254
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 20:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fun Fact: Initially CCP toyed with the idea of making Fighters pilot controlled a la Freespace.
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Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
31
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 20:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:And Crimeo, someone's always got a better idea of how the devs' time should be spent. Yes, but unlike you, they usually do a good job of explaining in their threads how their changes would actually benefit gameplay utility (I still don't understand why first person pilot control would add anything useful at all to my ability to fight people in EVE). And compared to this idea, almost every other suggested change in this forum would require probably 1/20th as much coding to do so...
Quote:It wouldn't take much to put a significant dent in that number. And like I said, Elite could easily do that. Especially if it doesn't require a subscription. If EVE is vulnerable to other games due to its payment model, then the logical solution to THAT problem is to fix its payment model (and I agree, EVE needs a more micro-payment model somehow to become more viable), not to change its gameplay style. Apples and oranges / this argument is unrelated to your main one. |
Kuro Bon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 20:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Apollo Cochrane wrote:The way I would implement it in the client would be that there would be a Manual Control module which could only be fitted to frigs. The module would of course require certain skills to operate, just like any other. When activated in space, it would enable the joystick flight system.
Your assumption that players will prefer an FPS based combat mechanic is not one I agree with. I personally find aiming an innane mechanic requiring no intelligence or thought, and I think many other MMO players feel the same way.
I think you also naively underestimate the amount of change required to make joystick piloting fun, relevant, and workable. And I'm not talking about CCP's 1-second heartbeat technology limitations.
Current EVE mechanics don't use aiming to target or decide on hit/damage results. Players lock a ship and then turn on your weapon systems. Is your "optional" joystick system going to maintain the current EVE weapon mechanics?
...if so, the FPS piloting is going to be pointless. How do you efficiently use a joystick to choose targets in the overview? How boring is it to look in a different direction than your target because you have to orbit it to maintain angular/transverse velocity? How boring will it be to manually fly your ship around in circles?
...if not, then you are going to fundamentally change the entire combat system to be based on twitch-based-flight-and-aiming. In doing this, the system would not only force all pilots into joystick play (because they would have to actively pilot to avoid you), but the game would become a twitch-based FPS where dead-reckoning, net-lag, and all manner of other things become relevant.
I think there could be a fun game where small ships were twitch based and bigger ships are not. However, I think "optional" joystick play is a pointless dead end. 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour. -áIt's more efficient to work at starbucks.-á Playing the game doesn't advance skills, kinda like ProgressQuest. |
0racle
Galactic Rangers Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 20:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
You're a pod pilot. You're not behind some joystick on the bridge of a ship. You're in a pod filled with goo and you have complete control over the ship. You have the ability to fly towards an exact position in space. This is arguably a much preferred alternative to the sloppyness of dogfighting.
For it to be truly dogfighting there'd have to be an element of aiming involved. Otherwise it's just a useless, less reliable method of flying your ship. It's all down to transversal and angular velocity. Numbers. You'd honestly be in a better position flying with the straight-line method in regards to dogfighting than you would flying all sloppy and stuff. You'd mess up, your transversal would drop and you'd go pop. |
Apollo Cochrane
Eve Archaeological Society
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 21:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Yes, but unlike you, they usually do a good job of explaining in their threads how their changes would actually benefit gameplay utility (I still don't understand why first person pilot control would add anything useful at all to my ability to fight people or do anything else actually useful in EVE).
Sorry...I...didn't think it...needed any explanation... You get in your ship...you fly your ship...you have more fun. It's not complicated, sir.
And it's my thread, I can digress for a moment if I want to
Anyway...
Kuro you make some good points.
Look guys, I don't know how to make the darn thing, I just wanna be able to do it. I don't have all the answers. It was just an idea. An idea for how great Eve could be.
Personally, I wish we could walk around and talk and trade on stations in virtual person. I wish I had the option to watch my ship enter and leave a station. I wish I could land on a planet and not just make stuff with icons. And yes, I wish I could control my ship properly in a dog-fight situation. Something's only impossible until it's not. And if Eve's not gonna ever be able to offer me those things, then I'm gonna drop it like a hot rock and find something that does.
Maybe Luc had a good point when he told me to "go play Elite then"? I might just do that. And so will many other people. And everyone that's left here can sit in a circle and point-and-click each other to their heart's content, while we in Elite get to have proper fights, land on planets, and have our manly way with space chicks (well ok maybe not the last one)
Fly Safe.
AC
PS Ok I'm like TOTALLY done with this topic now. Aren't you? lol
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Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 21:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote: Sorry...I...didn't think it...needed any explanation... You get in your ship...you fly your ship...you have more fun. It's not complicated, sir.
Disagree. On the contrary, I think it would be immensely frustrating. "Oh cool, I can fly around with a joystick and pew pew people and live out all of my top gun/star wars fantasies!"
5 minutes later...
"Oh wait, so I don't actually have a trigger button to go pew pew with? Guess I can't live out my tracer fire action movie fantasies after all. And I have to spend 50% of my time interpreting some sort of crazy 3-d to 2-d mapped radar system in order to have as good of an idea of what's going on as my enemies who are using 3rd person? That puts me at a huge tactical disadvantage. ...Pass."
Quote:Maybe Luc had a good point when he told me to "go play Elite then"? I might just do that. And so will many other people. And everyone that's left here can sit in a circle and point-and-click each other to their heart's content, while we in Elite get to have proper fights, land on planets, and have our manly way with space chicks (well ok maybe not the last one)
This assumes that somebody can only physically play one game at a time. Why would I not simply enjoy my RTS Eve time AND have my way with space chicks, all at once? Different enough gameplay experiences can successfully coexist just fine without canceling each other out.
That's why they have those "mix the two flavors" levers at frozen yogurt shops. >.> <.< |
Endymion Varg
Interstellar Vermin Inc.
9
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Posted - 2012.11.26 21:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lan Staz wrote:This kind of thing could be introduced as a stand-alone game in the Eve universe, based on the idea of piloting fighters & fighter bombers off carriers. It should be a casual, drop-in-and-play affair to bring back some of the World of Tanks crew. It would also be great if there was an "embedded" version in the Eve client so you can play it while docked up or floating at a POS.
This. Leave our pod ships alone. If CCP wants to let us actually pilot our ships like in that video then they should introduce a new line of ships + the pre-existing fighters that could be piloted manually. |
Kuro Bon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.11.27 04:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Apollo Cochrane wrote:Personally, I wish we could walk around and talk and trade on stations in virtual person. I wish I had the option to watch my ship enter and leave a station. I wish I could land on a planet and not just make stuff with icons.
You think you want these features, but if you had them in all their naivet+¬, you wouldn't like them. It takes serious design magic to make that kind of stuff work in the context of a space game. Design magic none of us have seen and might not exist.
Quote:And yes, I wish I could control my ship [[with a joystick]] in a dog-fight situation. ... And if Eve's not gonna ever be able to offer me those things, then I'm gonna drop it like a hot rock and find something that does.
Sounds like you have a good plan then. I wouldn't bother pining over Elite though. Jmpgate Evo was much further along when it fell into development troubles. Go kick those guys to finish it.
Personally I think both those games are struggling with the fact that FPS MMOs don't work, and 3d space isn't a great format for FPS action. 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour. -áIt's more efficient to work at starbucks.-á Playing the game doesn't advance skills, kinda like ProgressQuest. |
Solutio Letum
Lost Dawn Chaos Stealth Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
ok lets get in line here, whats a frigate? small ship, with rotating guns, you normally stand in a frigate, figths happen like so 1v1 frigates, rotate has fast in range has you can to make your self a harder target
frigates are not like F22, fighters are not ready at all for that, if you think about it there not ready at all for that, the game is years away from being like this
so your point dies here, EVE is a space SHIP game, not a space PLANE or space Fighter game dont get me wrong i would LOVE to see this happen where you have trained players in fighters but they would need to change the way they work and if you are talking about a view where you could walk in your ship well you are also asking allot... though id love that |
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