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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
13
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Posted - 2012.12.01 04:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
This change from the new Dec 4th patch has some serious implications to the lowsec 1v1 and small gang lifestyles in some regions, and being a resident of this community I'd like to point out an unfortunate side effect of this change.
I am totally behind the need for changes to the static plexes, right now someone can camp the final room, wait for the overseer to spawn, grab the loot and then cloak up effectively making it impossible to use. This issue with the game is abused everywhere and more so in highsec where there is minimal to no risk to ones ship.
Now here is my issue. In low sec (in particular I am referring to molden heath low sec) the locals have used these complexes as a great source of continuous PVP. The potential for good payoffs bring people to low security space since the highsec plexes are usually camped, and make it so that people risk ships. It generates a lot of frigate and cruiser pvp outside of factional warfare which is nice if you don't want to be involved in that. The draw is that these sites provide a gate with no gateguns that can very easily be found on the overview. This is attractive to anyone looking for pvp and as a result creates a unique environment in which combat is drawn to these systems where they are located because the first gate acts like a zero ground where everyone must pass through (again only in low sec). So by removing these complexes from the static state and making them be probed down, you are essentially for all intents and purposes making a HUGE reduction in some fairly consistent low sec pvp that many of us love.
Now here is my solution to combat the people who abuse the system and camp the payoff rooms. Firstly, make it so that the payoff room will not spawn the overseers when there are people in that room. This will make camping the room almost pointless. There is a risk here in that someone could cloak up and effectively make the room never spawn when they are AFK greatly affecting the value of the modules that are dropped from these complexes in their favor. To combat this I have two simple suggestions.
1, make it so that all rooms of the complex (except the warp in and first room) will not allow people to activate cloaks (give fancy reason like "intense electromagnetic disturbances are preventing you from activating this module." 2, to fix the issue further, make it so the static complexes are only in low security space. This forces anyone who wants to make what is in all honesty good isk for a small effort put themselves at risk of being engaged in PVP.
Now this is NOT about luring carebears down to lowsec to get killed, so by all means do seed the 1/10 and 2/10 into the exploration profession as well and make it available in both low and high security space, but keep the static plexes that do exist in lowsec alive
I do believe that this will greatly curve the amount of abuse that these complexes currently undergo, while maintaining (and in fact increasing) the amount of PVP that the ones in low security space generate. |
Vasquez Ovilo
Guardians of Asceticism
0
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Posted - 2012.12.01 06:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 |
Ganjjabeard
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
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Posted - 2012.12.01 07:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 i do not support the removal of static plexs. it helps maintain pvp in areas (especially our area of molden heath) PLEASE LEAVE OUR CREO PLEX ALONE! get in the van. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
311
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Posted - 2012.12.01 07:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have to agree.
EVE needs more "beacons" where you do not announce to the entire world you are scanning them down. Stuff like anomalies, belts, and static PLEXES.
These sites needs to be adjusted so they are worth doing and nerfed where they are exploited. |
Sir Livingston
Club Deadspace
172
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Posted - 2012.12.01 14:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Low security space fight clubs......who knew
i make videos about internet spaceships click to watch: http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
in-game chat channel: Club Deadspace |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3803
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Posted - 2012.12.01 19:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nice write up but I think maybe I'm missing something here.
You say you go to low security to do PvP yet you basically are doing it in a way that gives you a somewhat secure environment, dictating or limiting the type of ship class allowed while still being able to gain valuable loot with relative ease.
Also what's to stop you from having an alt cloak/camp the 1st room to get the key, thus preventing anyone else the chance to even get to the last room / Overseer.
I might be inclined to agree about keeping the 1/10's static since they are labeled as beginner mode.
Anyway, I'm more inclined to say no. Since you're looking for a secure arena with special ship class restrictions, should just make a proposal for that, or add support to an already existing proposal..
By the way, proposal's are posted in The Assemble Hall.
DMC |
M4iden
Bigger than Jesus
0
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Posted - 2012.12.01 19:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
I for one have the same opinion ! Let them be ! |
defins
BuBu Corp
1
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Posted - 2012.12.01 19:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Signed |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
64
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Posted - 2012.12.01 20:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
I can see where you come from, and a friend of mine used to do his early pvp in the same way that you describe. I come from the other side and i have to say that i approve of this change (even tho i will probably not do those sites unless they show up in lowsec ... which would be strange).
I think it will be interesting to watch the market value of small c- and b-type modules in the coming months. Either there won't be much change, because of stockpiles - or prices will go up because of less supply. A good thing imo for explorers (those with probes anyway) - maybe it will even relieve some stress in highsec, because newer players can scan down an do the plexes in their frigates, while the hordes of tech 3 ships will go on hunting for the higher tier DED sites.
I am a bit ambivalent about the pvp 'arena' that you say those static plexes have become. Yes ship restrictions. On the other hand, i am pretty sure that for instance you would see to get away if you noticed a gang of frigates coming in. So, in a way you could just as well hang out at a belt or in one of the landmark beacons and work your dscan to decide if you want to take a fight or not - or just fleet the other guy and battle in a safespot. I did choose the word 'arena' there, and i think that is indeed partly what you want. It is also a very un-EVE-ish concept, just like instanced complexes would be.
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
663
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Posted - 2012.12.01 21:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
As a mostly-losec explorer, I approve of this change.
Perhaps ironically, because I think it will improve things in hisec (depending on how the RNG Gods influence spawn-rates of these 'plexes there, anyway):
Namely, that the equally random chance applying to everyone, combined with the upgrades to the Tech I scanning frigates will give newer players a better chance of scoring decent loots from a 'plex that will be challenging-but-still-doable for them, without some **** in an Ishkur perma-camping the boss's spawn-point.
IOW, this is a huge buff to entry-level exploration, and I haven't any doubt that it will get many more newer players hooked on our playstyle in particular, and our game in general. Before this, hisec explo for newbies was/is...well, a bit of a let-down (a newb has no business in a DED 4/10 in their first cruiser, because it will go "pop" in the final room. The boss will basically alpha your ass --just ask me how I know!), for the most part.
(Why that perma-respwn-camping bullshit was never declared an exploit is beyond me --Pithii C-Type SSB = big win at that level, and in general-- but whatev'...) Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
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Dibblerette
The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY
103
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Posted - 2012.12.01 22:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
As a veteran of Old Meanie, I support this product and/or service.
Signed, +1 |
Alex Medvedov
Gunpoint Diplomacy
23
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Posted - 2012.12.01 22:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sylvous wrote:This change from the new Dec 4th patch has some serious implications to the lowsec 1v1 and small gang lifestyles in some regions, and being a resident of this community I'd like to point out an unfortunate side effect of this change....
I could not agree more with that mister with fancy goggles, please dont change the 1/10 and 2/10 plexes in low-sec to be exploration only! |
Icantspellwell
Muppet Factory Northern Coalition.
5
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Posted - 2012.12.02 03:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Completely agree. Static 2/10's are one of the most competitive areas for some good frigate/destroyer pvp. DO NOT SCREW THIS GOOD SYSTEM UP CCP. |
diazz69
F.I.S.C.O.
0
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Posted - 2012.12.02 03:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
+ 1
Completely agree |
Toterra
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
40
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Posted - 2012.12.02 05:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ridiculous change!
Basically, these 2/10 are pretty much the most successful PvP feature in all of low-sec. The mechanic was used as a template poorly for faction warfare. Just stupid and misguided to get rid of these. It is not as if 'farming' them is all that profitable in low-sec. 25 million isk/hour is probably about all you can get.
I remember the days when you could find fights at belts. Now we won't even be able to get fights at these sites. |
Duskiej
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.12.02 19:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
I am a bit ambivalent about the pvp 'arena' that you say those static plexes have become. Yes ship restrictions. On the other hand, i am pretty sure that for instance you would see to get away if you noticed a gang of frigates coming in. So, in a way you could just as well hang out at a belt or in one of the landmark beacons and work your dscan to decide if you want to take a fight or not - or just fleet the other guy and battle in a safespot. I did choose the word 'arena' there, and i think that is indeed partly what you want. It is also a very un-EVE-ish concept, just like instanced complexes would be.
I think the point he is making is that there is no reason to be ''out there'', no reason to be out sitting at planets, be out in asteroid belts. Explorers see combat probes coming from a mile away. But DED sites are treasure in sitting space, on overview, for anyone to grab, at the risk of going into a complex everyone knows about.
Though the main point is that there's no reason to remove them in lowsec, highsec DED's are a problem because whoever is inside can't be killed. But lowsec is a whole other story, whoever goes inside risks being followed, or someone being already insde, cloaked.
I'm an explorer, so I'm glad to see highsec DED's gone, but I dont see how highsec DED and lowsec DED's need to be shoved into the same catagory. |
Lady Manus
Lumen et Umbra
1
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Posted - 2012.12.02 23:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Toterra wrote:Ridiculous change!
Basically, these 2/10 are pretty much the most successful PvP feature in all of low-sec. The mechanic was used as a template poorly for faction warfare. Just stupid and misguided to get rid of these. It is not as if 'farming' them is all that profitable in low-sec. 25 million isk/hour is probably about all you can get.
I remember the days when you could find fights at belts. Now we won't even be able to get fights at these sites.
+1 DONT CHANGE LOW SEC 1/2 DEDs
Please give this game a chance to survive!
LM |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
463
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Posted - 2012.12.03 00:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lady Manus wrote:Please give this game a chance to survive!
LM woe is us
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Crazy Vania
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
17
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Posted - 2012.12.03 06:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Signed. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
213
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Posted - 2012.12.03 10:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Nice write up but I think maybe I'm missing something here.
You say you go to low security to do PvP yet you basically are doing it in a way that gives you a somewhat secure environment, dictating or limiting the type of ship class allowed while still being able to gain valuable loot with relative ease.
Also what's to stop you from having an alt cloak/camp the 1st room to get the key, thus preventing anyone else the chance to even get to the last room / Overseer.
I might be inclined to agree about keeping the 1/10's static since they are labeled as beginner mode.
Anyway, I'm more inclined to say no. Since you're looking for a secure arena with special ship class restrictions, should just make a proposal for that, or add support to an already existing proposal..
By the way, proposal's are posted in The Assemble Hall.
DMC
You are missing the whole point how lowsec uses those plexes. The fact that only frigs and dessies can go inside has nothing to do with fights taking place at beacon. I'm pretty sure everybody who happen to visit Heild on more or less regular basis can see everything from t1 frigs up to BC/BS hulls. Quite often plexes are used by roaming gangs as a "bait or be baited" place before they decide to move on.
We, as lowsec pirate bunch of misfits, are not writing to defend safe and sizxe restricted arenas - those have no place in Eve. We are voicing our concerns about change that came out of the blue, was placed in patch notes without any kind of explanation and suppose to fix farming problem in hisec and most important - it is an example of blanket fix without taking into consideration of all effects it will have OUTSIDE of hisec.
We had one farmer at Heild plex few months ago. I have no idea what happened to him eventually but we as R1FTA have a couple of KMs with his name and cloakie thrashers he used to use. Because this is how farming looks like in low: we care about those poor rats and see farmers camping last room as poachers who have to face consequences of their wrong ways. So CCP doesn't have to come in and save us like those hisec dwellers, we will keep farmers away on our own. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
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St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1007
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Posted - 2012.12.03 10:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:(...) We are voicing our concerns about change that came out of the blue, was placed in patch notes without any kind of explanation and suppose to fix farming problem in hisec and most important - it is an example of blanket fix without taking into consideration of all effects it will have OUTSIDE of hisec. (...)
It was most likely due to an exploit with the Gurista DED 2/10. Basically it allowed someone inside the second room to prevent the NPC in the first room (who drops the acceleration gate key) from respawning, and thus preventing anyone else from getting inside until next DT.
Related link here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=173635 |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
213
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Posted - 2012.12.03 10:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:(...) We are voicing our concerns about change that came out of the blue, was placed in patch notes without any kind of explanation and suppose to fix farming problem in hisec and most important - it is an example of blanket fix without taking into consideration of all effects it will have OUTSIDE of hisec. (...) It was most likely due to an exploit with the Gurista DED 2/10. Basically it allowed someone inside the second room to prevent the NPC in the first room (who drops the acceleration gate key) from respawning, and thus preventing anyone else from getting inside until next DT. Related link here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=173635
Oh well, it seems to me that's pretty much very concrete scenario which moving DED plexes completely into exploration should fix but big chunk of lowsec pvp was taken away which makes it very bad case where PVE content wins with PVP aspect. And this should never happen in a game build around PVP.
But change will happen anyway and only hope in CSM members like Hans who promised making this issue one of discussion points at incoming summit. Hopefully we will at least get some response from devs on this subject because right now they seem to be more concerned about miner bumping than lowsec losing pvp opportunities. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Nelran Estemaire
No Spoon Inc
7
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Posted - 2012.12.03 11:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Seeing as it is 3rd december here i doubt this change will be reversed.
I see the function you want these sites to have to lowsec pvp, but these do not need to be ded sites, something in the way of a new set of unrated sites with a good chance of having faction ships would have the same effect to lure people in.
The benefit of this is that you guys (lowsec pilots looking for gudfites) can come with wishes on how these sites are formed and deployed, and we the explorers get to keep the DED sites in the exploration system.
From my point of understanding there are only two items needed to make such a site working:
- chance of lewt - hull-restricting acceleration gates.
pPus whatever you guys see as needed, tbh i dont wish to ruin player versus player combat by removing the 1/10 and 2/10 statics, id rather just suck it up than seeing that. |
Eight Two
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.03 12:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
The thing I'm curious about, how come these sites are most of the time empty except for the permacamp in the last room? I'm sure it's about the ton of PvP action
No matter if it's high or lowsec.
Take the following with tongue in cheek a bit but is it really THAT hard to scan down the system your beloved static is in and bookmark the sites than can be interesting for explorers? Like a 5/10 DED or a Radar site?
All you have to do then is wait until you see probes on DScan. Use your own Dscan to see which site the explorer is in and go right after him. Hell you can even camp the warp in gate on DED sites if you want. No combat scanner probes that a player could see involved.
Or maybe go for FW plexes now that there's close warp-in points. No scanning skills required whatsoever.
Again, is the above so hard to do? Or do you simply want easymode? As with all the myriad of changes that have been catering to the easymode PvP crowd these days. While we're at it, why not ask CCP for a giant perma-deathmatch arena in Jita? Hopefully the CSM will have that on their list as well.
Ridiculous how people always cry foul when there's just a tiny bit of extra effort involved for getting a cookie. Seriously.
/ insert random dealwithit.jpg |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
213
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Posted - 2012.12.03 12:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Eight Two wrote:Take the following with tongue in cheek a bit but is it really THAT hard to scan down the system your beloved static is in and bookmark the sites than can be interesting for explorers? Like a 5/10 DED or a Radar site?
All you have to do then is wait until you see probes on DScan. Use your own Dscan to see which site the explorer is in and go right after him. Hell you can even camp the warp in gate on DED sites if you want. No combat scanner probes that a player could see involved.
Problem is that we are not using static plexes to hunt explorers, we are using them to fight other pvpers.
Maybe you should lose more than one crapfitted caracal before you will go and open your mouth on a subject you know nothing about.
I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Eight Two
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Eight Two wrote:Take the following with tongue in cheek a bit but is it really THAT hard to scan down the system your beloved static is in and bookmark the sites than can be interesting for explorers? Like a 5/10 DED or a Radar site?
All you have to do then is wait until you see probes on DScan. Use your own Dscan to see which site the explorer is in and go right after him. Hell you can even camp the warp in gate on DED sites if you want. No combat scanner probes that a player could see involved.
Problem is that we are not using static plexes to hunt explorers, we are using them to fight other pvpers. Maybe you should lose more than one crapfitted caracal before you will go and open your mouth on a subject you know nothing about.
Well, you're acting like the static Plexes in lowsec are the only areas where you can find PvP at all. That is simply not true. These Plexes have been abused as easymode isk income for years.
If you want Plexes to find PvP use the FW Plexes, what's the problem with that? Maybe leaving the permacamped nutshell and the 60 mil isk drops behind?
There's a reason why it's hard to find fights at planets, belts, whatever celestial object these days and that revolves around people wanting to play safe. Camping Plexes to get fights where you can control shipsize, batphones, log-off traps. Been on both sides, have t-shirt. You want small scale fights? Good, hop into a milita, warp to FW plex, join RvB or jump into a transit low-high system. That's four easy other possibilities I just made appear out of nowhere. Can you feel the magic?
The thing is, Eve is not a PvP game as you so eloquently stated it's a sandbox. The fix is coming to a broken part of the system that allows zero effort/max reward farming in underfitted T1 frigs. The sandbox is still there for you to discover the other 200 ways of getting "competitive" fights. You're crying fould before you ever even tried to do something different. Well fkin played.
If you really need a few statics to find your fights, why not pick up on CCP's idea of adding sec-status buff tags? Make them drop in specific static lowsec sites. Again, I am under the impression that it has to be DED sites. The only reason for that I can see is easy faction modules.
Also, do your homework. Obvious alt is obvious. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
213
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eight Two wrote:Also, do your homework. Obvious alt is obvious.
So post with your main. Or is he busy blapping titans in big nullsec alliance as they all are?
I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Eight Two
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Eight Two wrote:Also, do your homework. Obvious alt is obvious. So post with your main. Or is he busy blapping titans in big nullsec alliance as they all are?
Yes, he's mining overheated in a Ragnarok currently in 2B-3M4. Seriously, get over the idea of removing static DED sites breaking lowsec PvP. Or at least come up with a constructive response.
All I hear so far is "whaaa, somebody stole my candy". |
dexington
Push button receive bacon
173
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote: Problem is that we are not using static plexes to hunt explorers, we are using them to fight other pvpers.
They could add more static combat sites, which also has beacons but no gates, to replace the current static ded sites. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Nelran Estemaire
No Spoon Inc
7
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eight Two wrote:All I hear so far is "whaaa, somebody stole my candy".
I can clearly see suggestions in the op, also, you can always come with alternatives yourself rather than coming with the blame game.
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