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Enslaved Mistress
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 06:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sure others have been over these, but wouldn't it be nice to have T3 frigates? And if CCP ever did what should they keep similar to the T3 cruisers subsystems and what should they make different. And any ideas of what the ships should look like with different subsystems. If you don't think EVE should have T3 frigates please explain why not? Thanks for your time =^)
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
296
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Posted - 2012.12.04 06:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. Frigates explode much too easily. Skill point loss would mean that you'd need to spend a week training every time you wanted to use one.
Also, a T3 cruiser costs about 100 times what a T1 cruiser does, are you prepared to pay 100mil for a hull that will explode just as easily as a frigate AND cost you SP when it does? |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
43
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Posted - 2012.12.04 06:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
As Paikis said, hulls smaller than Cruiser are far too vulnerable, meaning they're far too risky for skill loss. If anything, larger hulls would make viable T3s - but then, I prefer to only have one versatile ship type, balanced properly, while others have their own advantages. Imo, it's far more important that Black Ops / Marauders and other T2 less used types are viable than getting another T3 type. |
Alara IonStorm
3675
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Posted - 2012.12.04 07:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Easy to kill, cost to much and SP are the primary arguments against.
* I don't take the blow up to easily argument to heart. I don't think people who fly Frigates would mind a stronger better fit higher Dmg Ceptor or a Heavy Assault Frigate, or a stronger faster Stealth Bomber at all.
* The cost argument doesn't sit for me as well. Quite frankly people are already willing to put faction and complex gear onto T2 and Pirate Frigates. You can get a Carrier instead of a Mach but people still PvP in Mach's for their other attributes. Frigates have attributes Cruisers can not match and a Cruiser can often be caught and killed in situations where Frigates could escape or avoid being hit. The amount of money people have in game Frigate Pilots would be willing to pay, they are not all pinching pennies compared to Battleship pilots.
* SP loss might be a big deterrent but not for a Frig / Small Ship focused Pilot who has everything trained that he needs. Maybe reduce the ranking system so there is a lower tier, make it half as long to recover a sub system then a Strat Cruiser like all Frigate skill training compared to Cruisers. 1.5 / 2 Days would not be a long punishment.
Frankly Frigate Pilots would love the bar to be raised for what they can accomplish and 75-100mil Faction Frigate sometimes with 30-200 mil in faction fitting, cost is not a factor. Lots of people fly Frigates to win and they are willing to put a lot of money into it because the goal is not throw away or tried hard but to win with their Frigate.
A 150-250mil Strategic Frigate might not be a slam dunk that is suddenly everywhere deal but for the serious Frigate community, the Exploration Community and Fleets where Frigate support that is alive and not dead is essential to victory this is a big boon.
If they have the time and resources absolutely I would like this done, no need for emergency like speed though. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
296
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Posted - 2012.12.04 07:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Agreed that cost shouldn't be a factor in balancing, but you just KNOW that people are going to complain for days and days the very first time their 300mil+ T3 frigate gets insta-popped because they don't know how to approach. And it will absolutely be along the lines of 'It cost me heaps it should be better!'
I also agree with Caitlyn, I think fixing the T2 battleships is more important than adding MORE overpowered T3 ships :) |
Alara IonStorm
3675
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Posted - 2012.12.04 07:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Agreed that cost shouldn't be a factor in balancing, but you just KNOW that people are going to complain for days and days the very first time their 300mil+ T3 frigate gets insta-popped because they don't know how to approach. And it will absolutely be along the lines of 'It cost me heaps it should be better!' Let them complain. I suck as a Frigate Pilot and won't buy Faction or T2 Frigates right now because I don't think I am good enough yet for the financial burden of the lose vs what gains I will make. If they can not measure the stats of their ship vs the risk out there in the field then it is their fault for flying such a ship without knowing how and they can suck it.
If I buy one of these and lose it my first thought is how did I lose and how not to lose the next one I can already afford because I do not fly what I can not afford to lose. That is how you roll in EVE.
Paikis wrote: I think fixing the T2 battleships is more important than adding MORE overpowered T3 ships :)
From it will die easily to overpowered. I think I did a pretty good job of explaining what a T3 Frigate can do.
I am going to go practice for my future 25k EHP Ceptor with 35km Point, MWD Sig reduction and 300 DPS now. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
296
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Posted - 2012.12.04 07:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Paikis wrote:I think fixing the T2 battleships is more important than adding MORE overpowered T3 ships :) From it will die easily to overpowered. I think I did a pretty good job of explaining what a T3 Frigate can do. I am going to go practice for my future 25k EHP Ceptor with 35km Point, MWD Sig reduction and 300 DPS now.
it was more a shot again the current T3s (which are quite OP). But you know how balancing is, it's either too good, or it's completely useless in the eyes of the people who use it. |
are34
Red Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.12.04 08:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
if the frigates were in line with the t3 cruisers tey would not at all be fragile, would the gallente one be a brawler that deals like 500 dps with 50k ehp and a bonus the scrambler range? would the caldari one fit a 10 mn ab and zoom around the battlefield??? who can say but i would definately get one if they came out, regardless of the cost would be quite interesting with some of the new ish gangs that we have been seeing, in the assault frigs with oneiros fleets. Plus could give people a good excuse to drop triage carriers with a frigate gang???? |
Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
160
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Posted - 2012.12.04 11:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
T3 frigs would be awesome, but very strong .... there is aspect in the eve ... it is called sig radius and if it is too small it makes ships nearly invulnerable. IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Le Badass
Zealots of Bob
5
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Posted - 2012.12.04 13:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think T3 frigs are a good idea. They'd act both as an ISK -and SP-sink, both of which I think are needed. At the same time, they'd be used primarily by old/rich players, which would serve to target the sink at just the right people.
In my mind, they would "work" in the Eve-story, since technological advance is to be expected. Of course T3 frigs would own T1 cruisers most of the time, but T1 cruisers ARE also two generations behind. There's a reason why M1 Abrams chew up T62s round the clock whenever some banana republic falls out of line IRL (yes yes, I know comparing Eve to real life svcks). Five years from now, no one will fly T1 except poor players and ++ber skilled pilots wanting to brag with their elite skills.
Finally, they would be a very interesting addition to the game. I do see some problems in balancing them, though, but I'll leave that to CCP and us, the community, to whine/nerf their capabilities to a sensible level. |
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Acrel
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm not sure I like the idea of T3 frigs. Frigates have extremely small sig radiuses, which makes them already near-impossible to hit by larger ships in smaller fights. This works fine with current frigs because they don't have much in the way of a tank, and you don't need to score very many good hits to bring one down.
A T3 frig with a cruiser-size tank and awesome resists would be nigh invulnerable without having a whole bunch of webbers on it. |
Enslaved Mistress
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
I agree with the sign rad issue. T3 cruisers are more like BS then cruisers in defense, and have great offense, not BS offense but good.
T3 cruisers aren't OP either, remember they are the most high tech ships in EVE, and based from sleep tech. Thery also cost more then most BS, and if you die while in one you loose a skill, so OP, not even close. Also like every ship in EVE you need to know how to fight them. No ship in EVE is OP anymore, people just rather wine, and ***** instead of thinking and using the right tactic/ship for the job.
Frigates really aren't that weak as some of you say, as a pilot with over 600 kills in frigates between this toon and my other PVP pilot, I think I can say if flown right frigates are very hard to kill and can take some cruisers, and even BC one on one.
The loosen skills like one does with T3 cruisers, could be an issue, but again I think it will make you a better pilot, and make you learn faster. The cost of the ship, well that is just part of T3s, if you can't afford to loose it, don't fly it.
Keep the good input coming, love the ideas, and info. Would love ideas for what some should look like. Some ideas of subsystems that the T3s should have and so on. Thanks everyone!
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Wivabel
Exanimo Inc Unclaimed.
50
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
T3 frigates would be terrible. They could only be too powerful or too weak. As a frigate pilot I vote heck no. If you really need your frigs to perform better faction fit the thing. Pretty much any frigate already has the ability to take on any subcap if the frig is fit and flown well. in closing balance what we have add new stuff only if it is needed. To be a part of future EVE intrigue check us out. Sov in the south. Small gang pew is what we do when we are-ánot defending our space.-á
Join "Exan-áRecruitment"-áin game |
Imustbecomfused
Fire f0r Effect
19
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Posted - 2012.12.04 16:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
T3 frigs would be cool imo. I could make variations for roles to create new capabilities and abilities. Frigs are frigs... they are small ships, meh, but its not like you fight a titan with a rifter anyway... I think it would be rather neat to ahve another ship class that could be customized for role specifics. and TBH, AF's are my favorite class to fly. I like fast frigs though, even though I enjoy flying much heavier tanked ships too. |
Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
101
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Posted - 2012.12.04 18:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Enslaved Mistress wrote: T3 cruisers aren't OP either, remember they are the most high tech ships in EVE, and based from sleep tech. Thery also cost more then most BS, and if you die while in one you loose a skill, so OP, not even close. Also like every ship in EVE you need to know how to fight them. No ship in EVE is OP anymore, people just rather wine, and ***** instead of thinking and using the right tactic/ship for the job.
Are you implying that T3 cruisers aren't overpowered due to the fact that they cost a lot of money, can explode, and if they do explode you lose skill points? Money isn't a balancing factor, and a 3 day train time on a skill (if you need all skills at level V) isn't a large deterrent. You only lose one rank one skill on destruction. That's not a huge loss. Especially in exchange for the massive advantage flying one gives you. Even CCP has acknowledged T3's as OP, and will be addressing them in the future.
Just because they're supposed to be high-tech doesn't mean that they have to be overpoweringly strong. Fluff is nice, but balance is far more important. |
Enslaved Mistress
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1
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Posted - 2012.12.04 22:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
No, I'm saying they aren't overpower. If you know what you are fighting you can beat any T3, just like if you know any ship in EVE you can beat it. Just need to do your homework and think and you can take any ship in EVE. T3s aren't overpower, and yes having to do a skill that takes 3 days is a pain in a game like EVE where real time is how you get your skills up. And also yes spending 150 to 200mil ISK on just a hull plus the price of the subsystems, and modules does make a difference also. When a ship is that costly, plus can set you back in skills that does affect if it's how it should preform, because you are putting more into said ship. The cost goes with faction ships, and same with the extra skills you put into them. faction boats cost a lot more and take usually twice as many skill points to use, and because of this CCP made them as powerful, and in some cases more powerful then there said counterparts. Also that T3s are the most advanced ships in EVE, they should have an edge, and be tough ships. They also don't do anything better then their counterparts (besides fleet boosts, and that is getting nerfed). They aren't as good as their recon counterparts, covert ops counrterparts, etc. So instead of trying to get more stuff nerfed, and turning EVE into all other MMOs, which it isn't by far, do your homework, think some and you will see nothing in EVE is OP anymore. |
Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
182
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Frigates are my favorite class of ship. They were what I flew as a noob for many months and I have a special soft spot for the Merlin.
I would love a T3 frigate, even if the hull cost a lot. I Endorse this Product and/or Service Source Recorder-esque tool for EVE |
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare
3
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
i would love to see t3 frigs. would be a lot of fun to fit and fly. i would like to see t2 versions of the new logi frigs soon as well as new mini commandships using t2 versions of the new dessies! |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1813
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Posted - 2012.12.05 09:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Paikis,Caitlyn and Alara summed up pretty well whatever there's to be said about it. I also would like CCP to look at BSs T1/T2 before they set about T3 frigs though. A Gallente or a Minny T3 frig would wreck my pants when I could afford them. |
Escomboli
Hammer Holding Wrong Hole.
8
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:As Paikis said, hulls smaller than Cruiser are far too vulnerable, meaning they're far too risky for skill loss. If anything, larger hulls would make viable T3s - but then, I prefer to only have one versatile ship type, balanced properly, while others have their own advantages. Imo, it's far more important that Black Ops / Marauders and other T2 less used types are viable than getting another T3 type.
Blops and Marauders are in desperate need of their revamp. I really hope CCP gets off their asses and gets around to it here soon. Blops have been in need of a rework since ever, and Marauders were hurt with the Noctis, and destroyed with the salvage drone. When more pilots can fly Titans than blops there is a problem.
On topic: Like everyone else said, squishy ships in t3 form = bad. I would like to see faction BC's before we get any more t3's. Then I would like to see some t3 battleships, or command/support battleships. Sad truth is I doubt we will see anymore t3's in the game for a longgggg time. |
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