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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 08:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey eve forum, Been a long while since I've been on here haha,
Anyway, in short, I first quote If I've posted off topic or in the wrong section give me a headsup, and I apologize in advance,
Secondly,
This "macro" Business, Now, I really don't understand this,
By macro do CCP mean Any form of stringed keystrokes? The rules, which i have read in the EULA basically to my knowledge (correct me if im wrong) state if I use my razer nostromo (See here http://pcgogo.com.au/images/uploads/Razer-Nostromo.jpg) To give me benefits above other players I'm breaking the T&C's Of my subscription,
However, What im confused about is the term "macro" If i bind one key on the nostromo to say T For Target instead of my keyboard (T) is this considered a macro by CCP? as technically its off the keyboard but is not a string of keys.
Second question, If for some reason i bind say one key on the nostromo to press F1+F2+F3 that would be considered an unfair advantage and bannable by CCP no as that would be a macro and a string of keys?
Thirdly and utmost, if what I've stated above is wrong, If i leave my nostromo plugged into the Pc, But it is not being used in game (I choose to use my keyboard to be a more even and fair player in comparison to the macro nostromo) Would just having the nostromo software given to me by razer running in my background be enough to accuse me of being a "macroer" and ban me?
What I'm confused about is how a macro board such as the above could be seen as a bot etc, I'm still required to press the keys manually on the nostromo rather than being afk etc.
So, Any kind of input or knowledge would be great, I have no idea what it means by the term "macro" and if its referring to an AI Bot or just a string of keys As i said, Im back after probably a year and a half off, I have no idea about the EULA and I want to be a fair and genuine player because well, I hate unfair advantages, fair and square tyvm. Thankyou.
Kind regards Serenity G. |
Kehro Urgus
Ab Obice Saevior
525
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 08:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Best bet is to petition asking for clarification but as far as I know as long as you are actually at the keyboard and not running an automated script you will be ok. I don't always troll, but when I do I do it on EVE Online forums.
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Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 08:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the Reply Kehro, in the mean time would you say I'd be safe just running the keyboard and leaving the nostromo plugged in? I've just sent off a petition so I'll see how that all works out, Thanks again bud! |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
580
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 08:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, 2nd thread about this type of "Macro" using.
Other thread did petition and posted the result (which technically is forbidden)
It's found here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2260197#post2260197 Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
Kehro Urgus
Ab Obice Saevior
525
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 08:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't see why not. I've seen GMs ok other keyboards with similar capabilities and having it plugged in and not being used while a petition is in progress shoud keep you out of hot water.
BTW that thing looks interesting. I never heard of it and I've found playing EVE with a standard keyboard and mouse to be clumsy as hell to the point of it not being very enjoyable. I don't always troll, but when I do I do it on EVE Online forums.
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Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 09:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks Kehro and J'poll
In regard to what you've posted J'poll, That does in a sense answer my question, however he's running a keyboard with macro's, this is just a dedicated board for macro's therefore I'd say in theory It could be a different case, it runs different drivers to the blackwidow keyboard and is integrated via Windows Kernel to the windows system itself, to err on the side of caution ill await the petition, Still Thankyou for the link,
Also Posting the result of the petition on forums is a no?
So if i get the yes all clear, or the no not ok from CCP I should not post the answer here on the forums regarding the answered petition? I thought someone else might ask the same question in the future?
(First I've heard of this technicality) |
Kehro Urgus
Ab Obice Saevior
525
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 09:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Serenity Gyro wrote:Thanks Kehro and J'poll
So if i get the yes all clear, or the no not ok from CCP I should not post the answer here on the forums regarding the answered petition?
(First I've heard of this technicality)
Again as far as I know directly posting GM correspondence with their name is a no no. Merely reiterating the decision reached in a petition is ok.
I don't always troll, but when I do I do it on EVE Online forums.
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Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 09:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Brilliant, Thanks Kehro And J'poll |
Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 09:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote: BTW that thing looks interesting. I never heard of it and I've found playing EVE with a standard keyboard and mouse to be clumsy as hell to the point of it not being very enjoyable.
Just read that sorry bud,
Trying not to go off topic too much its just an additional keyboard that you can bind extra keys too, its a pretty decent bit of hardware not too harsh on the wallet either, Don't want to advertise it or anything,
Just jump on razers site and checkout the "nostromo" ,
Thanks again bud, best wishes, if i get the all clear from the GM should grab it i guess man =P |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
581
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 09:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Serenity Gyro wrote:Thanks Kehro and J'poll
In regard to what you've posted J'poll, That does in a sense answer my question, however he's running a keyboard with macro's, this is just a dedicated board for macro's therefore I'd say in theory It could be a different case, it runs different drivers to the blackwidow keyboard and is integrated via Windows Kernel to the windows system itself, to err on the side of caution ill await the petition, Still Thankyou for the link,
Also Posting the result of the petition on forums is a no?
So if i get the yes all clear, or the no not ok from CCP I should not post the answer here on the forums regarding the answered petition? I thought someone else might ask the same question in the future?
(First I've heard of this technicality)
Forums rules wrote:9. Private communication between the Game Masters, Eve Team members, moderators and administrators of the forum and the forum users is not to be made public on these forums or by any other venue. You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence (including petitions) received from any of the aforementioned.
as seen on http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
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Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 09:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forums rules wrote:9. Private communication between the Game Masters, Eve Team members, moderators and administrators of the forum and the forum users is not to be made public on these forums or by any other venue. You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence (including petitions) received from any of the aforementioned.
Thankyou for that J'poll I'll chuck that into the memory bank, thanks again buddy, |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
287
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 09:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think you're fine, call it a hunch. If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if 'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
57
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 10:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fundamentally, the spirit of the rule is to prevent client-level auto-piloting via "bots". Setting up a keyboard - or a gamepad like the Nostromo or the Logitech G13 - to execute a string of commands on a single button-press may fall within the letter of the rule, but the intent is to stop farmers that use bots to mine or run missions for hours on end without human intervention, using crude AI to manage the steps that normally require human intervention.
I don't have any standing, but I'll hazard a guess that they classify devices like the Nostromo as keyboards, and that if you've got a keystroke sequence that doesn't last any longer than it takes you to take a normal breath and let it out, you're probably okay. If there's an IF/THEN anywhere in the sequence, that might cause trouble, but CCP security is generally looking at activities with timespans of hours, not seconds. |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1148
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 14:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hi,
In all such cases the best bet is to ask the GMs but basically, as other people have said, the current thinking is that if the device isn't actually playing the game for you, then it's ok.
Macro is kind of a misnomer, in this sense, automating repetitive keystrokes for you is fine. A program that gives you advantages that you wouldn't have or a system that allows the game to be played without you needing to be in control of the game client, is absolutely not allowed. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1137
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 19:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi,
In all such cases the best bet is to ask the GMs but basically, as other people have said, the current thinking is that if the device isn't actually playing the game for you, then it's ok.
Macro is kind of a misnomer, in this sense, automating repetitive keystrokes for you is fine. A program that gives you advantages that you wouldn't have or a system that allows the game to be played without you needing to be in control of the game client, is absolutely not allowed. Loosely quoting: "It is okay as long as it doesn't give you an unfair advantage over others." I'm fairly certain I could dig up an old CCP forum post with that if required.
I've also petitioned for clarification in the past. Forum rules prevent discussing it, though I think I can get away with stating the rule is very reasonable. |
Arcaus Rotrau Romali
Liquid Lucifer Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 19:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Do a search on the G11 or G13 Logitech keyboards, you should find a GM statement that such devices and their associated software are acceptable. |
Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 14:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:[quote=Serenity Gyro]Thanks Kehro and J'poll
Then again, as stated in the thread I linked here. I don't see why this post would be forbidden as it's a petition that can help others and CCP should have a similar statement no matter what type of input device is used.
I hope so for my sake thankyou,
To all the above, I thank you again for This information I understand now that As long as I Am manually Issuing The Commands I Should be Alright,
Thankyou to all, I'll await the GM reply to be certain but until then, Thanks eve forum! :D
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
832
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
If you're doing something more complex than could be achieved with the following, then you're possibly at risk.
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2012/01/96b1dd66d14d480ad79404e313ce12b7.jpg
FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
243
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Remaping is fine but automation is banable. |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
589
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Serenity Gyro wrote:J'Poll wrote:[quote=Serenity Gyro]Thanks Kehro and J'poll
Then again, as stated in the thread I linked here. I don't see why this post would be forbidden as it's a petition that can help others and CCP should have a similar statement no matter what type of input device is used. I hope so for my sake thankyou, To all the above, I thank you again for This information I understand now that As long as I Am manually Issuing The Commands I Should be Alright, Thankyou to all, I'll await the GM reply to be certain but until then, Thanks eve forum! :D
When you get the answer from the GM. Could you post the decision here.
Not posting the petition exactly but something like.
"Nostromo is / isn't allowed because....."
So that it can be used for future reference Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
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Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 08:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't even, Wait What was the question again? |
Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 08:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:Remaping is fine but automation is banable.
Thats where i am confused, where do you draw the line between automation and remapping?
If you bind three keys with delays between example,
F (1.5 second delay) + G (1.5 second delay) + F3 (1.5 second delay) To G1 = Automation ?
Or Automation =
"Hit this one key, did this and this, and this and i just went off made a sandwich had a shower and went to work then came home and it was still doing it"
you know?
f1+f2+f3 + T = Remap Or Automation?
Or
Mine + return to vault and drop off gear then go back begin mining again then to vault,
Remapping would assume,
G1 (remap) to T = Remap?
G1 (Remap) F1+ F2 +F3 + T ?
Thankyou All, |
Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 08:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
[/quote]
When you get the answer from the GM. Could you post the decision here.
Not posting the petition exactly but something like.
"Nostromo is / isn't allowed because....."
So that it can be used for future reference[/quote]
It's the least i can do to say thankyou, Sure, Ofcourse i can,
Thankyou for the headsup on how to word the reply as well, I'll remember that,
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J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
589
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 09:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Serenity Gyro wrote:Katarina Reid wrote:Remaping is fine but automation is banable. Thats where i am confused, where do you draw the line between automation and remapping? If you bind three keys with delays between example, F (1.5 second delay) + G (1.5 second delay) + F3 (1.5 second delay) To G1 = Automation ? Or Automation = "Hit this one key, did this and this, and this and i just went off made a sandwich had a shower and went to work then came home and it was still doing it" you know? f1+f2+f3 + T = Remap Or Automation? Or Mine + return to vault and drop off gear then go back begin mining again then to vault, Remapping would assume, G1 (remap) to T = Remap? G1 (Remap) F1+ F2 +F3 + T ? Thankyou All,
Automation is...
When the program alters stuff when it finds out that it can't execute the order given.
Say you are a miner and programmed a key that activates all 3 miners on your hulk. If the program then detects that your orehold is full and jettison when it is (and only when it is full)...That is automation...
Anything that has a program look for IF condition x is met THEN execute order y OTHERWISE execute order z As this means the program runs the inputs to the server and not the person behind the keyboard.
Binding keys to 1 macro key just means you can order multiple things at once, but it still require you to order EVERYTHING manually. Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 10:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
[/quote]
Automation is...
When the program alters stuff when it finds out that it can't execute the order given.
Say you are a miner and programmed a key that activates all 3 miners on your hulk. If the program then detects that your orehold is full and jettison when it is (and only when it is full)...That is automation...
Anything that has a program look for IF condition x is met THEN execute order y OTHERWISE execute order z As this means the program runs the inputs to the server and not the person behind the keyboard.
Binding keys to 1 macro key just means you can order multiple things at once, but it still require you to order EVERYTHING manually.[/quote]
Ahhhh, I see now, thankyou for clarifying that, however, i did hear macro's were capable of doing the equivalent with delays for example, You could be afk, judge the average time, and do the same thing with correct delays in place, I believe this here is the reason Macro's on top of Bots are considered a No no due to people doing the same thing through delays and multiple macro keys, The guy who i got the nostromo off from the hardware shop told me this when i called and regarded the EULA on eve earlier today and the return policy, and according to him the EULA on wow also had a similar section in place due to this reason.
I understand now, Either way its a shame people abuse this hardware and ruin it for the majority of us who do the correct thing,
I'll still put up the reply here, but i have a feeling that keys are subject to single commands ONLY or "remap" as previously stated above, ^
Thankyou all again, Thankyou J'poll for clarifying that for me, =] |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
243
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 11:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
I wasent allowed to set auto repeat on my key board. Im sure its just 1 click does 1 thing so no key that presses multiple keys and no repeating keys. As for programs i dont think eve bans program x they just ban you if your client is automated. My old petition "I know macro's that do lots of things are banned. Am i allowed to have the same key on auto repeat." Answer A key set to repeat would mean that action is automated. We would not be able to condone that activity.
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Arcaus Rotrau Romali
Liquid Lucifer Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 17:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
I've remapped a few keys that I often use onto my mouse (Logitech G700), D for docking/jumping, A to Align, and the shortcuts to close one or all windows. I also have a Saitek Cyborg Command unit that I mapped the F keys, map, and target lock so I don't have to reach up to the keyboard so often. |
Serenity Gyro
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 13:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Update:
Dear Fellow Eve Online Players
I have received a reply and am willing to share it with you regarding this issue, Now, If you plan to link this thread to users later, please be careful due to rules and EULA being subject to change. (Take this with a grain of salt,)
After Speaking to a reliable source they directed me towards the EULA (Section 6 in particular) Regarding this issue,
In summary:
"You may not use any hardware or software which enables you to do anything that goes against the policies set out in these sections, (EULA Section 6 prior & onwards regarding hardware/software/macro use) we do not condone or advocate or even encourage the use of this type of hardware/software integration with our game, there are no particular forms of hardware that are (OK) & (NOT OK) The hardware/software is entirely subject to the policies set out in the EULA themselves." Note: [I personally returned my hardware and stuck with the keyboard, to be on the safe side.]
If you choose to ignore the information provided here, there are two outcomes of course, and I am Liable for neither. Outside of this thread/post or in the eyes of a "senior" (Such as A GM or CCP Staff member), My comments mean nothing I have no authority just intellect I am willing to share.
To the user who wants to Err on the side of caution i recommend not using the hardware AT ALL, or if you choose too Ignore my warning 1 key remaps ONLY.
I wish you all a great Christmas and new year,
Regards Serenity G.
Note:
As stated, I am Not Liable for any losses/damage to property Online or Offline, Including but not limited to anything involving you, your account, Any of your belongings, Anything on this planet, Earth The Universe So on and So Forth Anything I can Think Of And you can, Even the Oxygen you're breathing right now while reading this, I'm liable for NOTHING. =P
This thread is intended to inform & educate The unsure/uneducated user on the basic guidelines of this topic, Essentially nothing here is concrete and is about as solid as the jelly in your fridge
I highly Recommend Contacting a GM If in doubt, Until Then,
Fly safe, and See you round.
Serenity G. |
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