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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Elijah Craig
Trask Industries Li3 Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.12.05 12:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Interesting interview with Jon Lander on Eurogamer
I hope the launch of Retribution brings in new players whilst also making existing folks get more from the game.
Also, some stuff about the future of Eve:-
'Lander promised new features will be added to the game in 2013, but stopped short of revealing what they are. GÇ£Retribution is a great foundation for what I'm calling the second decade of Eve,GÇ¥ he said.
GÇ£We're putting a lot of planning into how we go about getting the right things to concentrate on through 2013 and beyond. But one thing is very clear: we need to make sure as well as doing these great big features we continue to look after the systems we already have. We cannot just ignore that side of things. But also we're making a real play for that simple to learn, hard to master.GÇ¥
He added: GÇ£I want to try and reduce that barrier of entry to playing Eve. I don't ever want Eve to be nice and fluffy and it's a wonderful place to be. I think there's a place in the MMO world for a dark and dangerous, really good sci-fi world where you can be the goodie, the baddie, a criminal, the Good Samaritan. But it's very important we allow as many people as possible to get access to that game.
GÇ£So some of the things you'll see will be very much around accessibility for all players while keeping the depth of what the game is.
GÇ£But you're right, we will put in some really good big expansive things we've been looking at. We've done a lot of prototyping over the last year, but also we've got a backlog of things which could probably take us through another 20 years.
GÇ£There are some good things coming. We almost have too much choice, which is a great first world problem. As soon as we've prioritised what it is we want to do, we'll start communicating that out.GÇ¥ |
Galaxy Pig
Red Galaxy Persona Non Gratis
220
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Posted - 2012.12.05 12:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ha, he's chosen his words carefully, smart man. Lol |
Cat Troll
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
28
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Posted - 2012.12.05 12:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems alright. Move along people, nothing to get angry about! Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5330
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Posted - 2012.12.05 12:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Interesting interview. Nice to see Unifex picking up on the need to add some new content after 3 (very welcome, very good) "fix" expansions. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Servjen
Industrial and Mining Enterprises
16
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Posted - 2012.12.05 12:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Ha, he's chosen his words carefully, smart man. Lol
The man was hired for his carefully chosen words. This is where i put my signature, wright? |
Marcus Caspius
87
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Posted - 2012.12.05 12:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Ha, he's chosen his words carefully, smart man. Lol
You've not realized that CxOs are also politicians so that say a lot without saying much. Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
2198
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Elijah Craig wrote:Interesting interview with Jon Lander on EurogamerI hope the launch of Retribution brings in new players whilst also making existing folks get more from the game. Also, some stuff about the future of Eve:- 'Lander promised new features will be added to the game in 2013, but stopped short of revealing what they are. GÇ£Retribution is a great foundation for what I'm calling the second decade of Eve,GÇ¥ he said. GÇ£We're putting a lot of planning into how we go about getting the right things to concentrate on through 2013 and beyond. But one thing is very clear: we need to make sure as well as doing these great big features we continue to look after the systems we already have. We cannot just ignore that side of things. But also we're making a real play for that simple to learn, hard to master.GÇ¥ He added: GÇ£I want to try and reduce that barrier of entry to playing Eve. I don't ever want Eve to be nice and fluffy and it's a wonderful place to be. I think there's a place in the MMO world for a dark and dangerous, really good sci-fi world where you can be the goodie, the baddie, a criminal, the Good Samaritan. But it's very important we allow as many people as possible to get access to that game. GÇ£So some of the things you'll see will be very much around accessibility for all players while keeping the depth of what the game is. GÇ£But you're right, we will put in some really good big expansive things we've been looking at. We've done a lot of prototyping over the last year, but also we've got a backlog of things which could probably take us through another 20 years. GÇ£There are some good things coming. We almost have too much choice, which is a great first world problem. As soon as we've prioritised what it is we want to do, we'll start communicating that out.GÇ¥
This will be done under the tagline of "easily getting information to make hard choices". The gameplay of EVE won't be easier, but the UI will be better than a 90s cellphone.
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Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
539
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP wrote:I'm calling the second decade of Eve
I hope not; I remember the really awesome "The First Decade" box set for for Command and Conquer...
.. then they brought out C&C 4 and ruined EVERYTHINGGGGG. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
486
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gosh, so many words, and literally zero substance. All it does is hinting that amazing stuff, which they haven't decided on yet, but which will be amazing, may or may not be coming in 2013. Might as well have said "Coming Soon!" and left it at that.
And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. The only thing they can do is for those 6 months give a newbie something else to do that is fun and non-ship-related, which is where WiS comes in. |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
80
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:[ This will be done under the tagline of "easily getting information to make hard choices". The gameplay of EVE won't be easier, but the UI will be better than a 90s cellphone.
So your planning finally migrate to beginning of this millenium then atleast? Sorry, could not resist knowing how terrible science&industry UI is... And how much i need to suffer for it everytime i try run some serious manufacturing... [Insert something funny or smart here] |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5330
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: This will be done under the tagline of "easily getting information to make hard choices". The gameplay of EVE won't be easier, but the UI will be better than a 90s cellphone.
Well said that man! A bad interface isn't "complexity". Obscure mechanics that serve no game purpose other than to punish you for not knowing about them aren't "complexity".
A complex game is made by having lots of systems (different things to do) that can interact with other systems on various levels (ie: though the market, through aggression, through standings or contracts or whatever). Making those interactions intuitive, smooth and reliable isn't "dumbing down" the game.
Chess is hugely more complex than checkers because it has more systems (6 different sorts of pieces [7 if you count black and white bishops seperately] with different capabilities) even though it has almost exactly the same interface. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
2203
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dasola wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:[ This will be done under the tagline of "easily getting information to make hard choices". The gameplay of EVE won't be easier, but the UI will be better than a 90s cellphone.
So your planning finally migrate to beginning of this millenium then atleast? Sorry, could not resist knowing how terrible science&industry UI is... And how much i need to suffer for it everytime i try run some serious manufacturing...
That's the plan yeah |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
2203
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote: This will be done under the tagline of "easily getting information to make hard choices". The gameplay of EVE won't be easier, but the UI will be better than a 90s cellphone.
Well said that man! A bad interface isn't "complexity". Obscure mechanics that serve no game purpose other than to punish you for not knowing about them aren't "complexity". A complex game is made by having lots of systems (different things to do) that can interact with other systems on various levels (ie: though the market, through aggression, through standings or contracts or whatever). Making those interactions intuitive, smooth and reliable isn't "dumbing down" the game. Chess is hugely more complex than checkers because it has more systems (6 different sorts of pieces [7 if you count black and white bishops seperately] with different capabilities) even though it has almost exactly the same interface.
Ah well, this is a bit of a larger discussion. I look at "good" and "bad" complexity in EVE. Things like figuring out fittings, production chains etc are "good complexity", while things like navigating the industry UI, corp interface etc are bad complexity. They're basically complex ways of displaying information which should be easily available.
Then there's mechanics too of course. Why do you need so many structures to make boosters for example? There are a lot of stuff in there that are super specific instead of filling generalist roles etc. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5331
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Gosh, so many words, and literally zero substance. All it does is hinting that amazing stuff, which they haven't decided on yet, but which will be amazing, may or may not be coming in 2013. Might as well have said "Coming Soon!" and left it at that.
And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. The only thing they can do is for those 6 months give a newbie something else to do that is fun and non-ship-related, which is where WiS comes in.
I would never have started playing if EVE had the standard grinding system. And it didn't take "6 months to get core skills" even when we still had to train Learning Skills. I was out having a fine old time in 0.0 when I was 3 months in, and I didn't know or care about "core skills".
Goonswarm & TEST have convincingly proven once and forever that you don't need to spend years "preparing for 0.0" in hi-sec. What you need is robust player organisations who recognise that investing in new players is the way to keep those orgs strong and vital. Leaving new players to stagnate for a year or two in hi-sec in the hope that sufficient skillpoints will suddenly transmute them into good players is a terrible ineffective stupid idea. And forcing them to spend that time grinding xp as well will somehow help?
No.
I realise that getting into a different mode of play is challenging for people who've only ever played "race to level cap" MMOs where the object of the game is to maximise numbers on your character sheet, but try and realise that there are other people who aren't obsessed with being "maxed out" before trying to do anything. Freedom from grinding is the second greatest thing about EVE. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Vartan Sarkisian
Inner Visions Of Sound Mind
8
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Marcus Caspius wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:Ha, he's chosen his words carefully, smart man. Lol You've not realized that CxOs are also politicians so that say a lot without saying much.
And do little after saying what they do say.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5331
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 13:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Malcanis wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote: This will be done under the tagline of "easily getting information to make hard choices". The gameplay of EVE won't be easier, but the UI will be better than a 90s cellphone.
Well said that man! A bad interface isn't "complexity". Obscure mechanics that serve no game purpose other than to punish you for not knowing about them aren't "complexity". A complex game is made by having lots of systems (different things to do) that can interact with other systems on various levels (ie: though the market, through aggression, through standings or contracts or whatever). Making those interactions intuitive, smooth and reliable isn't "dumbing down" the game. Chess is hugely more complex than checkers because it has more systems (6 different sorts of pieces [7 if you count black and white bishops seperately] with different capabilities) even though it has almost exactly the same interface. Ah well, this is a bit of a larger discussion. I look at "good" and "bad" complexity in EVE. Things like figuring out fittings, production chains etc are "good complexity", while things like navigating the industry UI, corp interface etc are bad complexity. They're basically complex ways of displaying information which should be easily available. Then there's mechanics too of course. Why do you need so many structures to make boosters for example? There are a lot of stuff in there that are super specific instead of filling generalist roles etc.
The analogy I'm thinking to illustrate the second part of your post is Alton Brown's crusade against "unitaskers" - kitchen tools that only do one specific job. He says that everything in the kitchen apart from the fire extinguisher and the can opener should be suitable for multiple tasks. And I agree. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers THORN Alliance
94
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well EVE is still here. We are not dead yet! I like Mr. Lander, he does think critically before he says or does things and for that I admire him.
I would love it if you made eve more noob freiendly as long as you keep the complexity and difficulty available in the game.
I love the fact you have been reworking lower end ships like frigs and cruisers for the new guys (And us vets like it too) As long as you balance what you do for new bros with what you are doing for us old hands then im sure we will be fine :) "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10545
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 13:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. Funnily enough, it takes less than a month for a newbie to get the core skills and a smattering of role skills on top of them, all thanks to the ingenious nature of the EVE skill system -- a system that blows pretty much everything else (except maybe the old Planetside cert system) out of the water.
See sig for more information. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
541
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 13:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Ah well, this is a bit of a larger discussion. I look at "good" and "bad" complexity in EVE. Things like figuring out fittings, production chains etc are "good complexity", while things like navigating the industry UI, corp interface etc are bad complexity. They're basically complex ways of displaying information which should be easily available.
Then there's mechanics too of course. Why do you need so many structures to make boosters for example? There are a lot of stuff in there that are super specific instead of filling generalist roles etc.
Even still, the "good" side can be made better. Let's take fittings for example, and the lack of prototyping. The math and understanding required for fitting a ship is complex, various fitting skills effecting things like powergrid and CPU usage of shields, weapons, rigs etc.
Even veterans can't be expected to work them out accurately without spending most of their time in a spreadsheet. This is where third party tools such as EFT shine. They exist out of necessity but they shouldn't. They should take a basic feature and make it better.
The problem is in a lot of areas EVE lacks the basics. i.e. Can I fit this module to my ship and what difference would it make? I'd have to buy it, try and fit it, and if it didn't fit or when I undocked and activated all my modules etc it didn't do what I wanted it to, sell it again at a loss... or I could just use EFT. But EFT isn't something that's known to new players.
I want to know what my assets are worth, so I look in the inventory and notice it ignores fitted ship modules and cans, so I'm forced to go to EHQ and Prism.
EVE could be a much more accessible game if CCP covered more of the basics.
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
257
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
TL;DR no new content, more UI and debugs based "expansions" |
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Dr No Game
Android Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. The only thing they can do is for those 6 months give a newbie something else to do that is fun and non-ship-related, which is where WiS comes in. Not for everyone. I've been around maybe 5 weeks and already having fun playing around on the market, hanging around the RvB battlegrounds making some great (newbie) ISK salvaging, doing some PvE to get combat experience and joining a corp and making friends. There is PLENTY for new players to do, we just can't do it as efficiently as you guys yet, and I'm fine with that. |
Holy One
308
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tranquility; ok (25,555 players) Serenity; ok (23,633 players)
The problem isn't the game has no appeal, its that once you start asking people to pay 120e before they can really play it (a year or so of subs and skill training) it loses that appeal.
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Amelia Valkiery
University of Caille Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:TL;DR no new content, more UI and debugs based "expansions"
Alternative TL;DR
He talks alot, but doesn't say anything.
Thank God, there might actually have been a change announced from the last 10 years of Database........ehmmm Spreadsheet........euhm no that neither..... oh I mean Eve Online.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10545
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Holy One wrote:The problem isn't the game has no appeal, its that once you start asking people to pay 120e before they can really play it (a year or so of subs and skill training) it loses that appeal. Well, the solution to that problem is to report people who spread that kind of nonsense as newbie griefers.
EVE can be played "for real" from day 1. It takes maybe a month worth of skill training before you get a good assortment of tools and skills to build on for some more specialised tasks. The only problem is that the NPC corp chats -- the newbie schools and the newbie chat in particular -- is full of, if you'll pardon my french, connards who fill the poor newbies' heads with idiotic brainvomit such as "train everything to V" or "you can't PvP before 15M SP" or "get a battleship ASAP".
If those 'tards could get a few more punches in their gentleman/lady areas until they shut up, the appeal would become far more readily apparent. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
488
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. Funnily enough, it takes less than a month for a newbie to get the core skills and a smattering of role skills on top of them, all thanks to the ingenious nature of the EVE skill system -- a system that blows pretty much everything else (except maybe the old Planetside cert system) out of the water. See sig for more information.
I really consider those rudimentary skills, however that's beside the point. A month you say? Well, stop and realize that for most new players that still qualifies as "too friggin' long". And yes, to a degree this is "instant gratification" or "entitlement" mentality that so many folks here hate so much. But guess what? If you want new players, that's what new players want these days! And if you don't deliver it, guess what? They'll play some other game. Hence EVE's stalled 450k subs, 2/3 of which are alt accounts, despite a year and a half of exclusively FiS content since Incarna. What does that say?
If CCP continues with their "more of the same, and hope for the better", I don't see it getting better. I see a lot of 'more of the same'. And yes, for some folks that's enough. More than enough, actually. You just won't attract new players with it. Just like you won't attract new players with a nice shiny tutorial that then drops them into the same 'ol game that's been around for nearly 10 years, with obscure, broken or outdated mechanics at every corner. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
549
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Posted - 2012.12.05 15:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Tippia wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. Funnily enough, it takes less than a month for a newbie to get the core skills and a smattering of role skills on top of them, all thanks to the ingenious nature of the EVE skill system -- a system that blows pretty much everything else (except maybe the old Planetside cert system) out of the water. See sig for more information. I really consider those rudimentary skills, however that's beside the point. A month you say? Well, stop and realize that for most new players that still qualifies as "too friggin' long". And yes, to a degree this is "instant gratification" or "entitlement" mentality that so many folks here hate so much. But guess what? If you want new players, that's what new players want these days! And if you don't deliver it, guess what? They'll play some other game. Hence EVE's stalled 450k subs, 2/3 of which are alt accounts, despite a year and a half of exclusively FiS content since Incarna. What does that say? If CCP continues with their "more of the same, and hope for the better", I don't see it getting better. I see a lot of 'more of the same'. And yes, for some folks that's enough. More than enough, actually. You just won't attract new players with it. Just like you won't attract new players with a nice shiny tutorial that then drops them into the same 'ol game that's been around for nearly 10 years, with obscure, broken or outdated mechanics at every corner.
Stop it.
My alt could fly T2 ships with T2 mods in the first 3 months.
Tippia is right, the skill training system isn't the problem -It's actually one ofthe best available because you don't have to worry about grinding levels, and can focus on just playing the damn game- it's you guys.
You're wrong, the other guy is wrong, and every person that says it takes 6 months or more to "catch up" is wrong. You guys hurt the game with that nonsense, becuase it gets reverbrated all of over the net; to the point of being a tagline reason for not playing the game.
You can fly a frigate into low sec and hunt rats from day one. People actually do it. It's not easy, but it's possible. There's no way you could do that if you had to train "core" skills for 6 months.
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Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2012.12.05 15:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tippia wrote: EVE can be played "for real" from day 1. It takes maybe a month worth of skill training before you get a good assortment of tools and skills to build on for some more specialised tasks. The only problem is that the NPC corp chats -- the newbie schools and the newbie chat in particular -- are full of, if you'll pardon my french, connards who fill the poor newbies' heads with idiotic brainvomit such as "train everything to V" or "you can't PvP before 15M SP" or "get a battleship ASAP".
If those 'tards could get a few more punches in their gentleman/lady areas until they shut up, the appeal would become far more readily apparent.
Please explain to me how a day old newbie who can barely fit guns, navigate the UI, set up an overview properly, etc can be "useful" or get anything meaningful out of the game. As bad as the guys who say it takes a year to get the needed skills to play the game people like you and Malcanis need to stop spreading the opposite line of "instant usefulness".
Maybe a day or week old can be useful as cannon fodder/meat shield for your 0.0 blobs but, not for much else as far as anything fun for the newbie is concerned. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5335
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Holy One wrote:Tranquility; ok (25,555 players) Serenity; ok (23,633 players)
The problem isn't the game has no appeal, its that once you start asking people to pay 120e before they can really play it (a year or so of subs and skill training) it loses that appeal.
No, the problem is people griefing new players by lying to them and telling them that they "need" a year of subs.
Don't grief new players like this any more please. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
832
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Tippia wrote: EVE can be played "for real" from day 1. It takes maybe a month worth of skill training before you get a good assortment of tools and skills to build on for some more specialised tasks. The only problem is that the NPC corp chats -- the newbie schools and the newbie chat in particular -- are full of, if you'll pardon my french, connards who fill the poor newbies' heads with idiotic brainvomit such as "train everything to V" or "you can't PvP before 15M SP" or "get a battleship ASAP".
If those 'tards could get a few more punches in their gentleman/lady areas until they shut up, the appeal would become far more readily apparent.
Please explain to me how a day old newbie who can barely fit guns, navigate the UI, set up an overview properly, etc can be "useful" or get anything meaningful out of the game. As bad as the guys who say it takes a year to get the needed skills to play the game people like you and Malcanis need to stop spreading the opposite line of "instant usefulness". Maybe a day or week old can be useful as cannon fodder/meat shield for your 0.0 blobs but, not for much else as far as anything fun for the newbie is concerned.
I believe the appropriate phrase is 'hero tackle'
Another is 'Red vs Blue' FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5336
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Posted - 2012.12.05 16:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Tippia wrote: EVE can be played "for real" from day 1. It takes maybe a month worth of skill training before you get a good assortment of tools and skills to build on for some more specialised tasks. The only problem is that the NPC corp chats -- the newbie schools and the newbie chat in particular -- are full of, if you'll pardon my french, connards who fill the poor newbies' heads with idiotic brainvomit such as "train everything to V" or "you can't PvP before 15M SP" or "get a battleship ASAP".
If those 'tards could get a few more punches in their gentleman/lady areas until they shut up, the appeal would become far more readily apparent.
Please explain to me how a day old newbie who can barely fit guns, navigate the UI, set up an overview properly, etc can be "useful" or get anything meaningful out of the game. As bad as the guys who say it takes a year to get the needed skills to play the game people like you and Malcanis need to stop spreading the opposite line of "instant usefulness". Maybe a day or week old can be useful as cannon fodder/meat shield for your 0.0 blobs but, not for much else as far as anything fun for the newbie is concerned.
Who said "instant"? I never said "Instant". I consistently advise new players to complete all the tutorials and spend their free trial looking around, exploring, trying stuff out to see what they like and generally getting an idea of the game while everything they do is cheap and before they've made any real commitment.
After 15-20 days, they should have around 1-1.5M SP, which is easily enough for frigate & destroyer PvP if that's the way they won't to go, or basic hi-sec exploration, or noob industry or mining, or indeed most professions. At around this stage they should be looking for a corp that's focused on their interests and getting ready to really engage with the "multiplayer" facet of EVE.
Or they might be recruited into EVE by an alliance like Goonswarm and get the hell out to 0.0 straight away. Goons have no problem whatsoever with the doctrine of "instant usefulness", and their new player support structure completely demolishes the "it takes a year" bullshit. It doesn't take a year. It takes players who recognise the long term potential value of new players. (See this article here: http://themittani.com/content/soss-75-eve-born-6 ) MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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