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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sushi Nardieu
2
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Posted - 2012.12.06 06:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Has CCP done anything about this?
Higher sensor strength makes it harder to combat scan ships fast. T3 Cruisers can be especially difficult and if you do not have maxed out skills and implants, it further increases the sense of invincibility when using safe-spots.
This mechanic is fine, but if you already need to go to 2 AU range for a tengu without sensor strength mods/buff fitted then imagine how much further you need to go after the buff.
The tengu example is the best because they have a natural high sensor strength and they also enjoy using the sensor strength electronics subsystem the most because it also bonuses locking range for HML.
I'm not asking for a buff, but I'm looking for confirmation that it has remained the same.
It gets worse. ECCM modules work by multiplication of your sensor strength. Need not say much more here.
Unintentional nerf? CCP has mentioned that they recognize this issue in a past DEV post but I have not seen any comment on what has been done.
Unrelated:
Anyone noticed that the scan bubbles in the solar system UI is GRAINY? Guns of Knowledge-á |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
47
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Posted - 2012.12.06 09:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah I thought that was fairly well known...
Couple of ECCMs and/or backup arrays can I believe get you down to where you cannot even possibly be scanned.
It's not particularly imbalanced or anything though, considering that you could already have just bought a proto cloak for things like probing...
All it really does is give people the ability to run missions in peace with a gimpy fit. Who cares? |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
39
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Posted - 2012.12.06 10:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Yeah I thought that was fairly well known...
Couple of ECCMs and/or backup arrays can I believe get you down to where you cannot even possibly be scanned.
It's not particularly imbalanced or anything though, considering that you could already have just bought a proto cloak for things like probing...
All it really does is give people the ability to run missions in peace with a gimpy fit. Who cares?
ccp should, they actually patched up a bit back to remove unprobable from the game. It was not an accidental patch, it was intended.
And not all pve boats are gimped. Loki and tengu do unprobable/hard to probe real easy with little to no gimping. Can't speak for lego setups and proteus if drone based was a waste of time. The drones mwd sig boost gave them away.
My pve tengu setup is based on talon implants, 1 sensor backup arrray, 1 eccm.
Need crystals in a tengu, doing it wrong.
The SBA in lows not a gimp, 4 bcu's to me was too much stacking hits to be worthwhile. So I run a more useful low.
I tank fine with the eccm in mids as well. And the tank not that blingy. 2 gist b sba, 2 gist b passive resists amps. Except for the em resist you pay out the ass for its a very decent cheap tank. Cheaper than the gist a do you jsut sit still tanks so common at any rate. Hell my sba are over 2 years old, I got them when they were 20 mil before they became fotm and now double the price most times. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2648
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Posted - 2012.12.06 10:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
The change that prevented unprobable ships is still in place, so everyone can be probed even with these new skills. That being said these skills will make people harder to scan. We're keeping an eye on this and have some plans in place to affect a few specific uses, but we don't see reason for general concern at the moment. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Sushi Nardieu
2
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Posted - 2012.12.06 14:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Some players go through a fair amount of effort to be able to combat a ship in one scan.
Long Skill training High-cost implants Player skill development
The effort of this should not be penalized. Currently, I feel like CCP is leaving it an "oh well" attitude because one side was buffed but the consequences of the buff could not be examined closely enough, it would just be left until someone cried hard enough. (me )
Maybe because combat scanning is relatively niche, who knows. Maybe because there aren't enough players to voice it out loud enough.
Currently, the modules that make a ship harder to scan are dirt cheap. The skill training is short. (Racial Sensor Compensation is rank 2) The effort to dodge a combat scan is relatively simple and easy.
The skill training to improve the scanning side of the pvp is much more difficult. Long skills, high cost implants, specialized ships. Scan skills are rank 3, 5, 8.
What I don't understand is why CCP further tipped the balance towards the easier side. The easier side being the cheap ECCM modules and low effort in looking at dscan and making safe-spots.
I understand module fits always have a gain-lose effect in fitting but the skill training is an auto buff for those who want to avoid being combat scanned. And those who want to avoid being combat scanned will train it. Feels like E-Z mode especially since there is no risk to lose this advantage while a scanner can always risk his implants or ship.
I just preferred the status-quo rather than further giving advantage away.
I understand there is a lot on your plate in regards to the game, I'd just like more attention to certain lesser aspects of the game. I am still glad that all ships are still probable. Guns of Knowledge-á |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
207
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Posted - 2012.12.06 14:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nothing should be without countermeasures in this game.
It costs a lot of money and training time to fly supercaps, also.
Being able to fit a ship so even the most skilled scanner takes 2 or 3 tries to scan you down is perfectly reasonable since you still get tagged if you aren't paying attention and have to give up combat efficiency to get to that point. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10772
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Posted - 2012.12.06 14:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
So you have to work for your kills? Damn that sucks.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
147
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
keep in mind that probers got a buff to scanning with faction and t2 probe launcher having a scan strength buff not too long ago. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The change that prevented unprobable ships is still in place, so everyone can be probed even with these new skills. That being said these skills will make people harder to scan. We're keeping an eye on this and have some plans in place to affect a few specific uses, but we don't see reason for general concern at the moment.
The T3 rebalance will surely nerf the sensor strength subsystem..... Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048 |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
208
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The change that prevented unprobable ships is still in place, so everyone can be probed even with these new skills. That being said these skills will make people harder to scan. We're keeping an eye on this and have some plans in place to affect a few specific uses, but we don't see reason for general concern at the moment. The T3 rebalance will surely nerf the sensor strength subsystem..... Why should it?
One-shot kills aren't guaranteed no matter what you bring to the fight, why should there be a guarantee of one-shot scandowns? |
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Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
47
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:The T3 rebalance will surely nerf the sensor strength subsystem..... it's not just t3s.
t1 frigates can easily do this as well, and various other ships with slightly more difficulty. Hell, it wouldn't even be that difficult to make a frigate that was nearly impossible to scan down (strength:sig radius of 0.5 or so) even with an MWD on.
Perhaps not as much of a threat / issue as t3s, but it should still be kept in mind. For instance, if you make a ship with a 0.5 ratio even with an MWD on, you could set up bookmarks all around some strategic point without being bothered (or being very obviously bothered on dscan), and only risking about 3% the cost of a covops ship in hull/fittings. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
248
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Posted - 2012.12.07 10:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Simple fix: add a new scanning skill to proportionately increase probe sensor strength... or even make probe sensor strength benefit from the same comp skills that they just added. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
247
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Posted - 2012.12.07 10:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
the problem is off grid boosters.
The defender advantage of having a command ship in a POS goes away when anyone can have a completely un-probable ship giving gang boost from off grid.
That being said, i hope CCP really does come through with their proposed change and make off grid boosting a thing of the past.
If I were to do it, I would give gang links an optimal + falloff (say 500 km + 2 AU) that way anyone on grid with the command ship gets the full bonus, but the farther off grid you get, you have a smaller bonus. (for server side simplification, they could just calculate the bonus once per grid and then provide the bonus to all ships on that grid)
This would make the macro battlefield quite a bit more strategic as FCs would want to scout the territory they're going to attack and place their fleet as far away from an enemy POS as possible to prevent them from using the POS safe spot to their advantage.
Also it gives rewards to the people gutsy enough to field their command ship on grid with their fleet. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
91
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Posted - 2012.12.07 11:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
You say everyone can be probed. By that I think you mean everyone can be probed if you have a max skilled alt in a covops with faction fit and a very expensive set of implants. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
91
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Posted - 2012.12.07 11:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sigras wrote: If I were to do it, I would give gang links an optimal + falloff (say 500 km + 2 AU)
I had the same idea, but I was thinking 0km optimal and about 30km falloff. |
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