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Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd Imperial Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 19:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
In light of Hillmars apology which can be found here http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672 It has inspired me and returned my faith in the game. I think it's time we as eve players actually stand up and say what we like about the game. We as Eve players owe ourselves a good discussion of how we can help fix 0.0, and not just depend on CCP to do it for us. As well as how we can help make the game better.
Yes I know, WIDIOT. is the best dot. And RA RA goons. Now here is your serious thinking cap beanies.
1. We as Eve people, should realize that 0.0 is not the only part of Eve that matters. We should have more people then just the usual 0.0 people posting in here. We need new content. We need to hear from the wormhole alliances. We need to know more about high sec wars, and low sec drama. We need more exploration content. More about factional warfare.
2. How do we fix 0.0? Seriously, it's kinda dead out there. The various alliances that used to hold space are folding or going into NPC 0.0 due to over powered supers. PVPErs are getting bored with blob warfare. Can't say I blame them, what is the point of putting skills in combat when you can just toss a few super caps around and render the other tactics void. Mind you, there is a grace in large fleet combat and it requires a separate type of FC to do them, then the roams and small scale combat.
All I can think of is that smaller alliances need to form up into larger coalitions, to take on and/or save the land they have. But that has a downfall. Eve is a sandbox and CCP has yet to give us a throttle button for other players that drive us to drink. Coalitions are full of diplomacy that make the United Nations look like a playground. It's herding cats, at it's best and worst. You have to deal with those that know what they are doing, and those that are petty egomaniacs but ultimately full of fail.
So lets put our thinking caps on |
Imperian
hirr Morsus Mihi
49
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Posted - 2011.10.05 19:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
I disagree at one point eeh dot.
TriumvirateDOT best DOT |
Lovelocke
Enlightened Industries Test Friends Please Ignore
22
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Posted - 2011.10.05 19:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't really have the answer on how to "fix" EVE. Personally the areas that I play in seem fine and I enjoy it.
Anyway, to the point of my reply: I often read of people complaining about blob warfare and the lack of small gang warfare, but I have to ask where you guys hang out? Where I hang out I see a lot of small gang pvp. Granted it seems to take and hold SOV right now you need a blob but surely the point about small gang pvp is that there's less risk involved? The NPC areas close to me, Fountain NPC+Delve+Syndicate+Outer Ring, have quite a few small corps and alliances who run a lot of small gang roams through the various regions surrounding us. I think people generally cry "blob" when they encounter a fleet a little larger than themselves. I've often been in a fleet of say 30 and encountered a fleet of 20 and been accused of blobbing, only to encounter that same alliance in reverse numbers. Personally I think people complain too much and make up excuses for their losses.
As for your final point regarding smaller alliances forming up into larger coalitions... Isn't this the very action that you were just arguing against in your comments regarding blob warfare? How can you increase small gang pvp if you merge those small gangs into a blob to fight another blob? That is counter-intuitive. I think a balance to super capitals and perhaps some changes to the nature of sov warfare would be better. If an alliance could hold sov without needing to deploy blobs to defend it then they would be less inclined to join/create a coalition. |
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd Imperial Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 19:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lovelocke wrote:I don't really have the answer on how to "fix" EVE. Personally the areas that I play in seem fine and I enjoy it.
Anyway, to the point of my reply: I often read of people complaining about blob warfare and the lack of small gang warfare, but I have to ask where you guys hang out? Where I hang out I see a lot of small gang pvp. Granted it seems to take and hold SOV right now you need a blob but surely the point about small gang pvp is that there's less risk involved? The NPC areas close to me, Fountain NPC+Delve+Syndicate+Outer Ring, have quite a few small corps and alliances who run a lot of small gang roams through the various regions surrounding us. I think people generally cry "blob" when they encounter a fleet a little larger than themselves. I've often been in a fleet of say 30 and encountered a fleet of 20 and been accused of blobbing, only to encounter that same alliance in reverse numbers. Personally I think people complain too much and make up excuses for their losses.
As for your final point regarding smaller alliances forming up into larger coalitions... Isn't this the very action that you were just arguing against in your comments regarding blob warfare? How can you increase small gang pvp if you merge those small gangs into a blob to fight another blob? That is counter-intuitive. I think a balance to super capitals and perhaps some changes to the nature of sov warfare would be better. If an alliance could hold sov without needing to deploy blobs to defend it then they would be less inclined to join/create a coalition.
I'm thinking in terms of the player base trying to fix the way things are in 0.0 now. To do that, you have to utilize the tools you have. To take out a larger, or to even survive against a larger coalition you need a coalition of your own. Does it pose it's own problems yes. Hence why I'm wondering what others are thinking.
Maybe if we talk about it, someone will take some of the ideas and run with it, and have a success with it. CCP isn't the one that decided to form up and take out Bob and IT, that was it's player base. CCP wasn't the one to come up with mercenary corps and alliances that would do pvp for isk, that was it's playerbase. So using the tools that we have, what can we do to make Eve interesting again? |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1154
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Posted - 2011.10.05 20:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
The only way for players to make EVE better is to vote with your feet; subscribe if you enjoy the game, unsubscribe if you do not. If you do unsubscribe, give them an articulate and politely-worded explanation of your reasons. You can also vote in the CSM election but the CSM does not make policy so that is less useful. |
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd Imperial Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 20:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:The only way for players to make EVE better is to vote with your feet; subscribe if you enjoy the game, unsubscribe if you do not. If you do unsubscribe, give them an articulate and politely-worded explanation of your reasons. You can also vote in the CSM election but the CSM does not make policy so that is less useful.
I heartily disagree.
The players make the game. We make a good portion of the stories that drive this game. Just because the only thing I can think of is another coalition doesn't mean that other players don't have better ideas and can implement them. I'm not ready to toss in the towel to Eve, just because a feature of it is a bit frustrating. |
ScheenK
Constantine.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 21:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
fix 0.0 = come up with better sov mechanics
fix 0.0 = make supercarriers just have 20 fighters again, keep hp, give back sp put into fighterbombers skill
fix 0.0 = remove focused dd, re-add AOE dd but with more drawbacks that make sense
fix 0.0 = all major alliance should recognize their blues to be reds and just kill everyone
fix 0.0 = dreads should be primary cap killing ships, just like the olden days, carriers should be supporting your support (killing support with fighter/drones, using triage) supercarriers should be killing bs's bc's with 20 fighters, neuting, smartbombing using remote ecm burst, titans should be bridging, using gang bonuses, and using a revised AOE dd)
the good old eve days had all of this, minus the sov mechanics, bring it back eeeeeeeeeeeeee |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
725
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 22:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gank miners in empire to make nullsec mining worthwhile again. |
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 22:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Imperian wrote:I disagree at one point eeh dot.
TriumvirateDOT best DOT
I keep trying to like you again and then you go and say this...
The Mittani wrote:Gank miners in empire to make nullsec mining worthwhile again.
Sounds like a plan |
Khadmos
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Fatal Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 22:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
tl;dr: (Something about dicks and buttes)
1) In 0.0 space the profit you can make from moons out weighs anything by a big margin. 2) Moons are more profitable if you are running reactions so nobody just takes one moon. 3) High end moons are rare and hugely profitable while people playing the game are plentiful.
Let's say eve just came out and all the moons and all of 0.0 is currently unclaimed. How long do you think 1 person could hold a high end moon? Unless that 1 person can convince everyone else in eve that playing solo is the only way to go at least 2 people are going to get together and take his tower away. Now, how long will those 2 people hold the moon? See where I'm going with this?
Nothing else in 0.0 is worth going for. The belts, the anoms, the mining, it's all there so that the blob has something to do when it's not under attack. When the moons are under attack, the blob defends them. In return the alliance pays for their losses and provides them with belts, anoms and mining (that is a bit more profitable than anything in high sec).
The upper limit to the size of the blob is how many people the high end moons can support and keep happy (with system upgrades, ship replacement and logistics services). The lower limit is the number of people needed to handle the logistics necessary to keep towers running.
This is the same reason almost all 0.0 alliances are hostile to anyone that isn't in their alliance or a friendly alliance. They make enough profit off their moons to support all the logistics, industry and combat pilots that they need. They also have very expensive assets (high end moons, lots of towers). To a big alliance a neutral brings the down side of enemy scouting and it could light a cyno allowing a cap fleet to drop into system. The up side is..... ?? Some random rolling through our space literally can do absolutely nothing that is going to be a positive for us. Even if our outposts allow free docking, the amount we'd make off ship repairs, refining and sales is pitiful.
Until there is an area of space with no asset worth blobbing over but still profitable enough that people will bother going there we wont see a change to the way 0.0 space is run. W-space would be great for this but the logistics floor is too high.
If there were a few W-Space regions where the systems within a constellation are connected with jump gates and at least 1 station per constellation it would help a lot. Make sure there is always a route of 2-3 wormholes to high/low sec and people could make money just moving things from W-Space to high sec. The people killing sleepers have reduced logistics because they can sell their stuff at a station. Make the drops a bit less profitable than current W-Space systems, combine that with an increase in people collecting wormhole loot and the price drops a bit more. Balance it right and it wont be worth blobbing for.
Edit: Oh and leave current 0.0 the way it is, aside from nerfing super caps. |
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Lovelocke
Enlightened Industries Test Friends Please Ignore
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 23:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lunas Whisper wrote:
I'm thinking in terms of the player base trying to fix the way things are in 0.0 now. To do that, you have to utilize the tools you have. To take out a larger, or to even survive against a larger coalition you need a coalition of your own. Does it pose it's own problems yes. Hence why I'm wondering what others are thinking.
Maybe if we talk about it, someone will take some of the ideas and run with it, and have a success with it. CCP isn't the one that decided to form up and take out Bob and IT, that was it's player base. CCP wasn't the one to come up with mercenary corps and alliances that would do pvp for isk, that was it's playerbase. So using the tools that we have, what can we do to make Eve interesting again?
Well I don't think you can just say to the big alliances/coalitions "hey guys, unblue each other, k?" Doesn't work like that. Coalitions/nap fests are a result of game mechanics which is something the player base can't fix, unless by protesting/CSM. You COULD form a huge coalition to take out all coalitions in the game, but then you'll still have the same problem you're complaining about. |
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd Imperial Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 01:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lovelocke wrote:Lunas Whisper wrote:
I'm thinking in terms of the player base trying to fix the way things are in 0.0 now. To do that, you have to utilize the tools you have. To take out a larger, or to even survive against a larger coalition you need a coalition of your own. Does it pose it's own problems yes. Hence why I'm wondering what others are thinking.
Maybe if we talk about it, someone will take some of the ideas and run with it, and have a success with it. CCP isn't the one that decided to form up and take out Bob and IT, that was it's player base. CCP wasn't the one to come up with mercenary corps and alliances that would do pvp for isk, that was it's playerbase. So using the tools that we have, what can we do to make Eve interesting again?
Well I don't think you can just say to the big alliances/coalitions "hey guys, unblue each other, k?" Doesn't work like that. Coalitions/nap fests are a result of game mechanics which is something the player base can't fix, unless by protesting/CSM. You COULD form a huge coalition to take out all coalitions in the game, but then you'll still have the same problem you're complaining about.
I can't argue with that, nor do I have the hubris to say unblue each other. However the way things are going, things will stagnate.
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Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 02:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
If I owned a game where 90% of the population was content with doing the same quests over and over or shooting rocks with lasers I wouldn't do jack **** to please the other 10%. The game already has such a tremendous treadmill that there's little reason to add content or waste developer time trying to change what is ultimately a pittance in terms of player retention. |
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
292
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 02:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lunas Whisper wrote:However the way things are going, things will stagnate.
Remember when people said BoB couldn't be defeated? Or when they said the NC was too big to attack? Situations change, coalitions fall apart and sov changes hands. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
342
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 02:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lunas Whisper wrote:However the way things are going, things will stagnate.
Remember when people said BoB couldn't be defeated? Or when they said the NC was too big to attack? Situations change, coalitions fall apart and sov changes hands. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
115
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 03:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Imperian wrote:I disagree at one point eeh dot.
TriumvirateDOT best DOT
I sincerely hope you're joking. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
tomd741
Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 01:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
ScheenK wrote:fix 0.0 = come up with better sov mechanics
fix 0.0 = make supercarriers just have 20 fighters again, keep hp, give back sp put into fighterbombers skill
fix 0.0 = remove focused dd, re-add AOE dd but with more drawbacks that make sense
fix 0.0 = all major alliance should recognize their blues to be reds and just kill everyone
fix 0.0 = dreads should be primary cap killing ships, just like the olden days, carriers should be supporting your support (killing support with fighter/drones, using triage) supercarriers should be killing bs's bc's with 20 fighters, neuting, smartbombing using remote ecm burst, titans should be bridging, using gang bonuses, and using a revised AOE dd)
the good old eve days had all of this, minus the sov mechanics, bring it back eeeeeeeeeeeeee
Good ideas. My idea is I think that high end moons should be like droids and deplete. Then respawn somewhere else randomly. It would give other players a chance to make some isk and compete better. Just my 2 isk |
SunburnedFrog
Capital Systems INC Shadow of xXDEATHXx
20
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 11:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
The best way for you guys to help the " sandbox " as you so call it is
STOP POSTING STUPID THREADS |
Omatje
hirr Morsus Mihi
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 13:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lykouleon wrote:Imperian wrote:I disagree at one point eeh dot.
TriumvirateDOT best DOT I sincerely hope you're joking.
There is a 19.7% chance he is not joking...
... i like this thread though. |
Akara Ito
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.09 16:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:The only way for players to make EVE better is to vote with your feet; subscribe if you enjoy the game, unsubscribe if you do not. If you do unsubscribe, give them an articulate and politely-worded explanation of your reasons. You can also vote in the CSM election but the CSM does not make policy so that is less useful.
^What he said. If you're not enjoying this game and still pay for it (one way or another) you're pretty damn ********. Why would you pay for a game you dont like ?
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.09 19:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Omatje wrote:Lykouleon wrote:Imperian wrote:I disagree at one point eeh dot.
TriumvirateDOT best DOT I sincerely hope you're joking. There is a 19.7% chance he is not joking... ... i like this thread though.
Fortunately its status has not yet reached "KIA". |
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
163
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 10:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
The first thing you can do is vote out anyone in the CSM who is making war on hisec miners. The second thing you can do is get 2 people who have never played Eve-to play Eve. 1 of the 2 should stay. If everyone recruits 2 people-Eve's subscriber base will double giving CCP more money to hire new devs and more stuff etc.
Also: D34CSM7 If Women aren't supposed to do the cooking, why are their bodies full of milk and eggs? |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 12:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Darius III wrote:The first thing you can do is vote out anyone in the CSM who is making war on hisec miners. The second thing you can do is get 2 people who have never played Eve-to play Eve. 1 of the 2 should stay. If everyone recruits 2 people-Eve's subscriber base will double giving CCP more money to hire new devs and more stuff etc.
Also: D34CSM7
Also, vote for someone willing to leak CSM **** to their bff's that run a horribly bias bullshit eve news site. |
Trusty Jutspezic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 23:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Darius III wrote:The first thing you can do is vote out anyone in the CSM who is making war on hisec miners. The second thing you can do is get 2 people who have never played Eve-to play Eve. 1 of the 2 should stay. If everyone recruits 2 people-Eve's subscriber base will double giving CCP more money to hire new devs and more stuff etc.
Also: D34CSM7 You have hilariously optimistic views on this game's retention rate. Better to get ten people you don't really care about to try because nine will end up hating you. |
Trusty Jutspezic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 23:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
And that includes the one that keeps playing :frank: |
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd Imperial Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 03:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Darius III wrote:The first thing you can do is vote out anyone in the CSM who is making war on hisec miners. The second thing you can do is get 2 people who have never played Eve-to play Eve. 1 of the 2 should stay. If everyone recruits 2 people-Eve's subscriber base will double giving CCP more money to hire new devs and more stuff etc.
Also: D34CSM7
Darious I like your tag:)
But yes, we should be careful who we vote for to speak for us.
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Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 16:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
If every empire corp puts forth their own candidate, surely one of them will win due to random chance. |
Spurty
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 16:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
You want 'US' to fix 0.0?
I suggest all null sec systems get chained together to form an erect pecker shape.
Delve can be the helmet and Drone regions, the *********.
Yes, having players fix 0.0 will result in a completely workable solution
0.0 is dull as it's static.
EVE systems In general have these properties : - Security rating - number of moons - number of belts - available ore - rats in the area (Sansha incursions are just the tip of what i'm about to get at)
These properties just exist and are read only.
There is no changing these facts and that makes for a dull sense of purpose / exploration.
How many of the exact same moronic rats should you kill before one of them emails their corp / alliance and goes "Guys, its a bit deadly in Venal, hows about we try to Wicked Creek for a month?"
Hows about exploring depleting moons over time and having them respawn elsewhere?
boo hoo, someone has to rip down a tower. Perhaps managing TOWERS even is poor entertainment.
For a game, it lacks 'surprises' and entertainment (yes, players pvp'ing does offer these two, but such events are rarer than a post from the ivory towers).
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Spurty wrote: boo hoo, someone has to rip down a tower. Perhaps managing TOWERS even is poor entertainment.
Clearly you have never dealt with a POS before. |
Spurty
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
37
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Posted - 2011.10.14 03:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:Spurty wrote: boo hoo, someone has to rip down a tower. Perhaps managing TOWERS even is poor entertainment.
Clearly you have never dealt with a POS before.
Glad you're clear on this fact.
Mong ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
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