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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Per Bastet
B.O.O.M Obsidian Mining Coalition
7
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Posted - 2012.12.10 19:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Cool. Now glass Serpentis Prime and everyone on it and you'll REALLY earn my respect.
Have you ever seen the results of what a planet that has been Glassed looks like? I would suggest that you take the time to look at some of them. And the Loss of many innocent lives involved in the process.
By jumping to glassing a world because their leaders are evil you place your self in the same shoes as those that you fight. If you are going to be an Anti Mining Bumper, then you need to be a better person.
Comments like this make me strongly consider throwing my alliance's support behind the bumpers just to spite you Anslo. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
723
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Posted - 2012.12.10 19:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Per Bastet wrote:Comments like this make me strongly consider throwing my alliance's support behind the bumpers just to spite you Anslo.
If you want to join them just to spite me instead of protecting yourself and your colleagues right to mine, you got bigger issues than me (and that's saying a lot).
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
820
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Posted - 2012.12.10 19:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Per Bastet wrote:Comments like this make me strongly consider throwing my alliance's support behind the bumpers just to spite you Anslo. If you want to join them just to spite me instead of protecting yourself and your colleagues right to mine, you got bigger issues than me (and that's saying a lot).
Consider that the bumped miner suffers no harm other than a little lost productivity and some hurt feelings, and I begin to truly question the mental state of someone who believes with all his heart that these people must be protected and yet wants to see a planet full of potentially innocent people nuked from orbit simply because their leaders are dicks.
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Misha M'Liena
Rainbow Waffe
1341
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Posted - 2012.12.10 19:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Congrats to I-Red to a job well done.
Not as innocent as she appears.Gäó -á |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
282
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Posted - 2012.12.10 22:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
'Glassing' (what a horribly clinical term) a planet for the sake of violent leadership? Never have the Gallente strayed so far down the depths of moral turpitude, even in the lowest of their days, in bombing the cities of the Caldari. The Gallente have improved since that point, so I have been lead to believe, but your casual calls for genocide make me wonder if this is true.
May you find restraint for these violent instincts. You may have spoken lightly, but be careful - enough people voicing a call for the casual extirpation of a planet will start the mob's cries, and in your Federation, this is impetus enough for disaster. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
48
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Posted - 2012.12.11 10:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rodtrik wrote:Though it would send a powerful message...
The offending party claimed that the attack was also to send a message that no one was to cross the Serpentis. This seemed to also implicate (or attempted to) governmental organizations that they were not to cross the Serpentis.
While mass destruction is never a desirable outcome, I would say it is in this case. Take a city? Take a planet. Remind the criminals of their place.
The point is that mass destruction doesn't solve problems unless you are in a position to make it complete. The last time the Gallente people seriously contemplated this solution to a problem it resulted in a civil war in the Federation, a long and expensive conflict and the creation of a hostile super-power right next door to Federation space.
Counter productive. |
Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
6
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Posted - 2012.12.11 14:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Rodtrik wrote:Though it would send a powerful message...
The offending party claimed that the attack was also to send a message that no one was to cross the Serpentis. This seemed to also implicate (or attempted to) governmental organizations that they were not to cross the Serpentis.
While mass destruction is never a desirable outcome, I would say it is in this case. Take a city? Take a planet. Remind the criminals of their place. The point is that mass destruction doesn't solve problems unless you are in a position to make it complete. The last time the Gallente people seriously contemplated this solution to a problem it resulted in a civil war in the Federation, a long and expensive conflict and the creation of a hostile super-power right next door to Federation space. Counter productive.
What we Gallente did to the Caldari was absolutely uncalled for. We attempted to force ways onto a relatively non-belligerent society. For that, we are sorry.
But the Serpentis acted aggressively initially and wiped out an entire city for a few plants. There is a key difference between the mistake the Gallente made in attacking the Caldari that caused a civil war, and teaching a few thugs about their place on the interstellar hierarchy by cleaning house, so to speak. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
828
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Posted - 2012.12.11 14:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Rodtrik wrote:
What we Gallente did to the Caldari was absolutely uncalled for. We attempted to force ways onto a relatively non-belligerent society. For that, we are sorry.
But the Serpentis acted aggressively initially and wiped out an entire city for a few plants. There is a key difference between the mistake the Gallente made in attacking the Caldari that caused a civil war, and teaching a few thugs about their place on the interstellar hierarchy by cleaning house, so to speak.
And so the cycle continues, until someone steps in to stop it. |
Anja Suorsa
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
8
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Posted - 2012.12.11 17:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rodtrik wrote:
What we Gallente did to the Caldari was absolutely uncalled for. We attempted to force ways onto a relatively non-belligerent society. For that, we are sorry.
But the Serpentis acted aggressively initially and wiped out an entire city for a few plants. There is a key difference between the mistake the Gallente made in attacking the Caldari that caused a civil war, and teaching a few thugs about their place on the interstellar hierarchy by cleaning house, so to speak.
As distasteful as I find it to agree with a supporter of Nation, I have to agree with Mr Thessalonia in this instance. I'm sure your ancestors thought they were teaching a few thugs about their place on the interstellar hierarchy when they decided to blockade and bombard Caldari Prime.
Back to the topic at hand though, My personal congratulations to I-RED on work well done.
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
828
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
On this, I think we don't need the qualification. One thing that Nation supporters and supporters of the Caldari state have in common is that we both have within our immediately accessable memories the horrors of planetary bombardment.
I'd advise those who think it is a wise answer to the Serpentis Problem to experience one themselves before they go advocating death from orbit. |
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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
385
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Posted - 2012.12.11 17:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
To which I'd add simply this:
Do it, and lose whatever moral high ground you think you have. Permanently.
Once can, conceivably, be forgiven as a temporary lapse, and we have heard time and again "oh the Federation isn't like that now". We've been assured again and again that such mindlessly, murderously over-the-top retaliation is no longer a part of the Federation's cultural makeup, and I'm personally prepared to concede that maybe that's the case. That is trust which should be offered.
Calls for it to happen again, now? Shocking, but so long as the majority continue to balk at the idea, then we're alright.
If it ever did get to that point, if the Federation actually did what's being advocated here, and boiled a Serpentis world to bedrock? Then speaking as a would-be interstellar peacemaker and bridge-builder, the Federation would have forever forfeited the right to call itself "civilisation" and every negative thing that has ever been said about it would be vindicated.
Fortunately I suspect that the people making the decisions are well aware of just how politically disastrous it would be. I hope they're aware of the morality too, but I'm quite certain that political expediency is the more powerful motivator. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
7
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Posted - 2012.12.11 18:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
So then what would you moral paragons of justice suggest as retaliation against the Serpentis? Threaten them with words? Waggle our fingers?
Someone suggested going after the leaders specifically. Do you think more leaders will not simply fill the vacuum and facilitate another raid against a city? Or perhaps an entire planet?
When do we have the right to strike back? Do we need to wait for one of our own worlds to be destroyed? Perhaps a station cracked from within by some criminal organization as a reminder that we are to kowtow to them or else. This isn't a sovereign nation we're talking about. It's a criminal organization.
Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
828
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
If you punish the proper elites properly, then those who take their place are much less likely to make the same mistake as the previously installed leadership.
In short, Captain, you can be ruthless without being a monster yourself. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
724
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Posted - 2012.12.11 18:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If you punish the proper elites properly, then those who take their place are much less likely to make the same mistake as the previously installed leadership.
In short, Captain, you can be ruthless without being a monster yourself.
To be honest, he has a point. Serpentis aren't stupid enough to make the same mistake again if they see the **** others got for it. Even their most brazen leaders wouldn't pull a stunt like that if they saw the guy before him get the Anvent Eturrer treatment...
Eh, the more I think about it, the less acceptable wiping a planet out looks...
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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
387
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Posted - 2012.12.11 19:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Rodtrik wrote:Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly.
Swiftly, ruthlessly and proportionately. Massive psychotic overkill is not the answer, it just perpetuates an escalating spiral of atrocities with no good outcome. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
7
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Posted - 2012.12.11 19:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Rodtrik wrote:Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly. Swiftly, ruthlessly and proportionately. Massive psychotic overkill is not the answer, it just perpetuates an escalating spiral of atrocities with no good outcome.
So we should wipe out one of their cities then? I could find this acceptable... |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
828
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 19:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
Rodtrik wrote:Stitcher wrote:Rodtrik wrote:Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly. Swiftly, ruthlessly and proportionately. Massive psychotic overkill is not the answer, it just perpetuates an escalating spiral of atrocities with no good outcome. So we should wipe out one of their cities then? I could find this acceptable...
So you want to go full psychotic, then.
This is noted. |
Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
7
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Posted - 2012.12.11 19:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Rodtrik wrote:Stitcher wrote:Rodtrik wrote:Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly. Swiftly, ruthlessly and proportionately. Massive psychotic overkill is not the answer, it just perpetuates an escalating spiral of atrocities with no good outcome. So we should wipe out one of their cities then? I could find this acceptable... So you want to go full psychotic, then. This is noted.
How is it psychotic? He said proportionate. A city for a city. How is this not proportionate? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
53
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 19:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rodtrik wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Rodtrik wrote:Stitcher wrote:Rodtrik wrote:Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly. Swiftly, ruthlessly and proportionately. Massive psychotic overkill is not the answer, it just perpetuates an escalating spiral of atrocities with no good outcome. So we should wipe out one of their cities then? I could find this acceptable... So you want to go full psychotic, then. This is noted. How is it psychotic? He said proportionate. A city for a city. How is this not proportionate?
You don't fight monsters by becoming a monster.
Proportionate is finding the people responsible and killing them. And not just killing them, because they were capsuleers, it means boarding the station where their clones are and capturing THEM. It means taking out their ship crews, possibly the ship crew families. It means destroying the crop that they seized. It means finding the leaders who ordered it, the logisitics people who supplied it. It means tracking down the money men.
You bankrupt them. Drive them from honour and you punish them publicly. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
726
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Posted - 2012.12.11 19:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Proportionate is finding the people responsible and killing them. And not just killing them, because they were capsuleers, it means boarding the station where their clones are and capturing THEM. It means taking out their ship crews, possibly the ship crew families. It means destroying the crop that they seized. It means finding the leaders who ordered it, the logisitics people who supplied it. It means tracking down the money men.
You bankrupt them. Drive them from honour and you punish them publicly.
You might be a super patriotic Caldari but man I like your style! I like this idea much better!
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Pieter Tuulinen
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
54
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Posted - 2012.12.11 19:36:00 -
[51] - Quote
You're welcome Anslo. And when you put the boots to them, make sure you deliver a good one to the ribs from me. |
Hulemand
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
12
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
Rodtrik wrote: Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly.
Don't you worry, plans are already set in motion.
Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
829
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 20:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
Hulemand wrote:Rodtrik wrote: Retribution must be delivered in some form, swiftly, and ruthlessly.
Don't you worry, plans are already set in motion.
Wait.
What are you getting retribution for? I have to admit to confusion. |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
290
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Wait. What are you getting retribution for? I have to admit to confusion.
I believe he is referring to the actions of I-RED and the Watch mentioned in the original post.
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
830
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ah, well.
If it's any consolation to I-RED I don't believe that Coreli really has the power to project the force necessary to do significant harm. |
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
223
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Posted - 2012.12.12 07:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Ah, well.
If it's any consolation to I-RED I don't believe that Coreli really has the power to project the force necessary to do significant harm.
No doubt they will work in tandem with the anarchists already hassling our operations. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. |
Aodha Khan
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.12.12 09:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Ah, well.
If it's any consolation to I-RED I don't believe that Coreli really has the power to project the force necessary to do significant harm.
As ill-informed as you are ... _____________________________________________________ Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken. |
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
223
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 13:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Aodha Khan wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Ah, well.
If it's any consolation to I-RED I don't believe that Coreli really has the power to project the force necessary to do significant harm. As ill-informed as you are ...
Well he is right that alone Coreli is of little concern.. But you are lucky we are fighting Rote Kapelle, I am sure they want allies in their efforts to destroy us. *Smirks* Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
834
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 13:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Aodha Khan wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Ah, well.
If it's any consolation to I-RED I don't believe that Coreli really has the power to project the force necessary to do significant harm. As ill-informed as you are ...
I've seen what you guys can bring to the table. Unsupported dreadnaughts, warp-core stabbed heavy attack battlecruisers that pose 0 threat to ships, failed black ops hot drops and the occasional AF that you are willing to actually risk. |
Hulemand
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
12
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Posted - 2012.12.12 14:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Aodha Khan wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Ah, well.
If it's any consolation to I-RED I don't believe that Coreli really has the power to project the force necessary to do significant harm. As ill-informed as you are ... I've seen what you guys can bring to the table. Unsupported dreadnaughts, warp-core stabbed heavy attack battlecruisers that pose 0 threat to ships, failed black ops hot drops and the occasional AF that you are willing to actually risk.
It wonder how you have had time to see all this, you seem mostly busy hijacking threads here twisting them into Sansha propaganda... With our one single engagement, you are hardly in a real position to tell anyone anything about our ability to fight. Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer
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