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Seismic Stan
305
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Posted - 2012.12.08 19:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
[Excerpt from original Freebooted article "No Retribution for Old Drones"]
One of the most significant controversies arising from the Retribution changes, or at least the one causing the most noise elewhere on this forum, is the AI changes to NPCs. Now less predictable, with some of the far more challenging Sleeper AI being implemented, NPC "rats" across New Eden have apparently taken to massacring players' drones. I've not yet had the opportunity to investigate this phenomenon, but anything that refreshes the tired mission system sounds good to me.
Reports of the degree of anti-drone violence are varied, with primarily solo mission runners feeling the pinch. Many are complaining that the new AI behaviours have made drone boats non-viable as mission ships, whilst others are claiming that players simply need to adapt.
It may simply be those who can no longer sleepwalk through missions using drones as a passive DPS system who are being the most vocal, however this does throw light on an area of EVE's antiquated gameplay and UI that desperately needs some love. Improvements elsewhere in EVE are increasingly making drone-based gameplay the most prominent ugly sister. It would be great to see the following tweaks:
Improved InterfaceWith increasing need to micro-manage drones in time-critical combat situations, an intuitive means of doing so is desperately needed. The present drone interface - a right-click dropdown menu buried within a clunky drone management window - is awful. It would be great to see a clear and simple, button-driven panel allowing the organisation and command of flights on drones. A number of solutions spring to mind, all of which would be better than the existing system. See the mock-up by Ruato (made in 2006!) for an example. [Edit: it should be noted that the existing keyboard shortcuts are an alternative drone control option, but that is no excuse for a diabolical UI.]
Drone FozzificationCCP Fozzie has done a great job of rebalancing many of the ships in EVE. Have drones been slated for review? Or are they considered to be fine as they are? Certain drone types remain as unused as many of the pre-tiericide frigates and cruisers, so I suspect there may be some work for He Who Juggles the Numbers.
V3 the DronesThese poor little fellas have long been overlooked for some visual love. First and foremost - give them engine trails, it'd look fantastic as they whizzed around and it'd mean that they'd exist as more than just a HUD "x" when viewed from a distance. Also, give them a redesign so they don't look so ridiculous when they fire sideways from their fixed forward-facing weapons.
Revised AI and In-Depth Drone GameplayIf we've got to micromanage them, make it fun - perhaps making drone-based gameplay more involved. If the launch-and-forget days of mission farming are over, why not give the player a little more control over the behaviour of his drones. Beyond the passive/aggressive settings, why not allow the player to define more specific behaviours, from target priorities to range thresholds and tactics. Perhaps flights of drones could have a command drone within them to provide boosts, or maybe bonuses could be given for using particular formations (speed improvement for 'chevron' formation, accuracy boost for 'sphere', damage for 'cluster', etc.) Freebooted - Tech4 News - Incarna: The Text Adventure - Guild Launch EVE Correspondent |
AstraPardus
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
15
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Posted - 2012.12.08 19:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
^ this, all of this
I'm an avid drone player and I would love to have more control over them, it would make my gameplay more enjoyable. Every time I post is Pardy time! :3 |
Hustomte
The Scope
91
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Posted - 2012.12.08 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree 100% this needs to be looked at ...Signature... |
Macsadbro
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc. Tri-Star Galactic Industries
3
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Posted - 2012.12.08 20:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes. |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
124
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Posted - 2012.12.08 20:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
For sure drone UI need reworking. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
293
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Posted - 2012.12.08 20:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes i agree all things drone need work. | | v
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
28
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Posted - 2012.12.08 21:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seismic Stan wrote:[Excerpt from original Freebooted article " No Retribution for Old Drones"] One of the most significant controversies arising from the Retribution changes, or at least the one causing the most noise elsewhere on this forum, is the AI changes to NPCs. Now less predictable, with some of the far more challenging Sleeper AI being implemented, NPC "rats" across New Eden have apparently taken to massacring players' drones. I've not yet had the opportunity to investigate this phenomenon, but anything that refreshes the tired mission system sounds good to me. Reports of the degree of anti-drone violence are varied, with primarily solo mission runners feeling the pinch. Many are complaining that the new AI behaviours have made drone boats non-viable as mission ships, whilst others are claiming that players simply need to adapt. It may simply be those who can no longer sleepwalk through missions using drones as a passive DPS system who are being the most vocal, however this does throw light on an area of EVE's antiquated gameplay and UI that desperately needs some love. Improvements elsewhere in EVE are increasingly making drone-based gameplay the most prominent ugly sister. It would be great to see the following tweaks: Improved InterfaceWith increasing need to micro-manage drones in time-critical combat situations, an intuitive means of doing so is desperately needed. The present drone interface - a right-click dropdown menu buried within a clunky drone management window - is awful. It would be great to see a clear and simple, button-driven panel allowing the organisation and command of flights on drones. A number of solutions spring to mind, all of which would be better than the existing system. See the mock-up by Ruato (made in 2006!) for an example. [Edit: it should be noted that the existing keyboard shortcuts are an alternative drone control option, but that is no excuse for a diabolical UI.] Drone FozzificationCCP Fozzie has done a great job of rebalancing many of the ships in EVE. Have drones been slated for review? Or are they considered to be fine as they are? Certain drone types remain as unused as many of the pre-tiericide frigates and cruisers, so I suspect there may be some work for He Who Juggles the Numbers. V3 the DronesThese poor little fellas have long been overlooked for some visual love. First and foremost - give them engine trails, it'd look fantastic as they whizzed around and it'd mean that they'd exist as more than just a HUD "x" when viewed from a distance. Also, give them a redesign so they don't look so ridiculous when they fire sideways from their fixed forward-facing weapons. Revised AI and In-Depth Drone GameplayIf we've got to micromanage them, make it fun - perhaps making drone-based gameplay more involved. If the launch-and-forget days of mission farming are over, why not give the player a little more control over the behaviour of his drones. Beyond the passive/aggressive settings, why not allow the player to define more specific behaviours, from target priorities to range thresholds and tactics. Perhaps flights of drones could have a command drone within them to provide boosts, or maybe bonuses could be given for using particular formations (speed improvement for 'chevron' formation, accuracy boost for 'sphere', damage for 'cluster', etc.)
all of this. |
Mary Clarissa Titor
2
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Posted - 2012.12.08 21:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
I want scriptable drones. You know, the kind you could actually program to fly in formation, select targets intelligently, run away when shot at while shooting at targets that come up in range, or bobble up and down and draw "WE COME IN PEACE" in space with their trails. I'm probably not getting anything like that.
But failing that, drones should not be stupider than the rats, and I should be able to tell them to try their best to stay alive, or rush with reckless abandon, or try to get out of range if the enemy is concentrating fire on them. And I should be able to do all that without that horrid window. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2012.12.08 21:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
I liked the drone UI button at fanfest i was hoping to see that by now but it seems lots of things haven't happened as they suggested would at fanfest as we all know drones need a top to bottom overhaul certainly things like ogres having a higher sig radius than a logi cruiser and tracking of a battleship. Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048 |
Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
103
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Posted - 2012.12.08 22:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Those are actually pretty good ideas. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
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Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
582
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Posted - 2012.12.09 00:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Adjusting NPC AI without adjusting the actual missions as well is just terrible and screwing over their customers. With the huge signature on drones they are doomed if the NPC decides to target them. If I implemented something like this without considering the consequences I'd get my ass fired the next day.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Mund Richard
18
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Posted - 2012.12.09 02:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Obviously approving of the message.
Maybe also: Give a selectable option for drones (much like aggressive) to maximize or MINIMIZE their transversal to the target. Drones missing a 90% webbed or stationary target due to their own movement even with omnitrackers on is kinda lame. Look at drone signatures? T2 resist profiles for the T2 drones? (Would be of lesser use for amarr/minmatar in missions though, unless merely buffed instead of T2.) Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
24
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Posted - 2012.12.09 07:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
+ 1 |
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2012.12.09 08:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
These are all very good ideas. +1 |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
52
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Posted - 2012.12.09 16:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
There is nothing in the OP I don't agree with. +1
How do we think drones need to be changed to work with the current NPC AI? How can we get Drone boats to be able to compete with other weapon platforms in PvE once more? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Marcio Miranda
Vera Cruz. Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2012.12.09 23:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
The OP and everyone else. +1 |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
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Posted - 2012.12.10 00:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fozzie'ficate this, Fozzie! |
Felturion
Active Fusion Cold Fusion.
6
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Posted - 2012.12.10 07:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
+ 1
I also have had ideas about while they are at it improving/adding the launch and return animation for drones. I found a thread about it that is locked now though: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1523809#post1523809
But if you read through there you could also add balance options through the animation for ships that is not primarily drone boats maybe.
It's worth looking into. (Eye Candy) Ship names Visable on the ship Hull https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2281340&#post2281340 |
Mund Richard
25
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Posted - 2012.12.10 11:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Felturion wrote:But if you read through there you could also add balance options through the animation for ships that is not primarily drone boats maybe.. I'd snarkly point out how CCP should first fix the mechanics, but the graphics team is independant of the balancing one, so if they make it more shiny... ooh shiny! What was I talking about? Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
Backfire Kitty
Forgotten Squad
1
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Posted - 2012.12.10 13:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
sounds nice, someone should call Fozzie! |
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Drezzster
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.10 13:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yes please! |
Seismic Stan
324
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Posted - 2012.12.10 13:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Backfire Kitty wrote:sounds nice, someone should call Fozzie!
I did ask CCP Fozzie about this on Twitter:
@Freebooted wrote:@CCP_Fozzie Do you think some drone fozzification might resolve concerns regarding drone survivability in PvE? GÇÅ@CCP_Fozzie wrote:@Freebooted I think the solution will come through other means. It's something CCP Bettik is investigating options for right now.
@MaryTitor wrote:@CCP_Fozzie @Freebooted Mmmm... but Amarr drones?...
@CCP_Fozzie wrote:@MaryTitor @Freebooted Those are going to need fozzification
So things are being looked at and CCP Fozzie accepts that there are some balancing issues worthy of his time. I just hope they take the opportunity to make a decent hash of things rather than just effecting a quick fix. The ball appears to be in CCP Bettik's court. Freebooted - Tech4 News - Incarna: The Text Adventure - Guild Launch EVE Correspondent |
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
40
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Posted - 2012.12.10 14:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yes to all the things!!!
Drones need to like minions / underlings in other games, lots of fine control and information.
Even if we could see when someone is targeting a drone BEFORE they start taking damage would be nice.
Also it was mentioned, set a number where they will auto return at X% HP left so you don't have to fumble with sub menus to get the one drone that is getting hammered back to bay before its lost.
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Ortos Falconrae
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.12.10 14:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
The ability to hold Drones in groups of units in different Orbits would be useful. e.g
Group 1- Scout / Light drones Circling at 20km (or whatever you want)
Group 2 - Med/Heavy Drones Circling at 10km (or whatever)
Group 3 - Repair Drone / Salvager etc
The idea being defence in depth, with different Rules of Engagement for different layers which you would set. For example, the Inner Layer is your strong Defence Belt (Group 2), to protect your Ship, they would remain close and engage units that entered into their area of effect. But if they came under long range attack, the Outer layer (say Group 1) would counter the threat leaving the inner layer to defend you. The support layer (Group 3) would act as a logistics layer repairing drones in flight, your ship and also salvaging anything of use.
Your thoughts? |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
209
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Posted - 2012.12.10 14:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
The current keyboard shortcuts don't cut it, they are a 50 pound foam sledgehammer where we need a screwdriver. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 14:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
smaller sig radius on all drones since they are about 1/6 the size of a frigate and higher orbit velocity would certainly help them tank a hell of a lot more damage even before you get onto tank/resists. Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048 |
Mund Richard
26
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Posted - 2012.12.10 16:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:smaller sig radius on all drones since they are about 1/6 the size of a frigate and higher orbit velocity would certainly help them tank a hell of a lot more damage even before you get onto tank/resists. Higher orbit velocity would also need a buff to their tracking, as they miss on a stationary target sometimes easier than on one that's moving (since the movement is cancelling out the one half of their orbit, while ofc the other half is affected even worse, but overall, according to some tests, the results are that a moving target does take more damage, as long as it's slower than the drone). Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 16:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:Harvey James wrote:smaller sig radius on all drones since they are about 1/6 the size of a frigate and higher orbit velocity would certainly help them tank a hell of a lot more damage even before you get onto tank/resists. Higher orbit velocity would also need a buff to their tracking, as they miss on a stationary target sometimes easier than on one that's moving (since the movement is cancelling out the one half of their orbit, while ofc the other half is affected even worse, but overall, according to some tests, the results are that a moving target does take more damage, as long as it's slower than the drone).
Indeed tracking is somewhat lacking now as ships are getting quicker and getting lower sig radius. But there a plethora of issues about drones that need a massive overhaul. Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048 |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
42
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Posted - 2012.12.10 17:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
If you excuse my self-promotion, there's a couple of ideas I've thrown about the matter some time ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1162539 |
Abu Mee'khy'ar al-Mukai
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.12.11 10:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
retribution hits drones hardly, they deserve some love |
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