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Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner United Manufacturing and Technology Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 04:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know that I'm fairly new to the Whole PI Skill but from what I've learned. You can Plex an acct with just 1 or 2 characters learning the right skill set.
If I can stand to make 400mil ISK per month with 2 characters doing PI with minimal worry about losing anything, just by being in High Sec Space doesn't that mean that it's a little OP in it's current state.
I feel that there should be a way to PVP with the PI Skill and it should be out soon.
Anyone else have thoughts on this.
I know that they are looking into it but it's not out yet and i'm just curious if anyone else feels the same about this. |
Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.10.06 05:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Have you done Planetary Interaction? Have you made 440m isk per month in high sec? Or you "heard" this?
How do you know they are looking onto it?
What is the "PI skill" you want to pvp with?
Is this a troll? |
Malkuth Delapounti
Bulldog Industries. Two Zero One One
2
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Posted - 2011.10.06 05:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ah dude If you can make that much ISK in HIGH SEC With PI then your amazing.
And No you can't. LOL. |
Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner United Manufacturing and Technology Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 05:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Double Quote Delete? |
Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner United Manufacturing and Technology Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 05:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mirak Nijoba wrote:I know that it's close to those numbers.
If you know what you're looking for and how to do it then yes.
With 4 planets producing the right product and only bringing in products from 1 planet with enough care you can make around 400mil isk per month for 1 character in high sec.
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Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.10.06 06:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mirak Nijoba wrote:Mirak Nijoba wrote:I know that it's close to those numbers.
If you know what you're looking for and how to do it then yes.
With 4 planets producing the right product and only bringing in products from 1 planet with enough care you can make around 400mil isk per month for 1 character in high sec.
So you have done this?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
327
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Posted - 2011.10.06 06:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well, that was pretty much the most incongruous use of GǣoverpoweredGǥ I've ever seenGǪ
It's not GÇ£poweredGÇ¥ at all, much less overpowered, and 400M a month is a pretty paltry sum to make, especially in highsec.
And even if it were any of those, it still wouldn't be overpowered GÇö it would just be the market doing its thing. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner United Manufacturing and Technology Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 06:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Mirak Nijoba wrote:Mirak Nijoba wrote:I know that it's close to those numbers.
If you know what you're looking for and how to do it then yes.
With 4 planets producing the right product and only bringing in products from 1 planet with enough care you can make around 400mil isk per month for 1 character in high sec. So you have done this? In high sec? I also am interested in this PI skill we will be able to PvP with.
It's in the numbers and I'm working on it. Right now I have 1 planet that is making me 100mil isk per month as long as i keep up on it. (the Market could change)
I think that PVP for PI should be incorporated on the EVE level into the PI Skills Tree... Nothing like oh you bring your Abaddon out to Shoot my Colony... more like if you want to conquer someones PI Planet/the same grid it would be along the lines of overpowering their PI Defense with your PI Offense.
Allowing Milita Units that you obtain in the game to have a Use in PI. ^_^
That's one Suggestion atleast.
Tippia wrote: Well, that was pretty much the most incongruous use of GǣoverpoweredGǥ I've ever seenGǪ Ugh
It's not GÇ£poweredGÇ¥ at all, much less overpowered, and 400M a month is a pretty paltry sum to make, especially in highsec.
And even if it were any of those, it still wouldn't be overpowered GÇö it would just be the market doing its thing.
Well 400mil isk a month and all you have to do is check this and move that and run some numbers... It's the safest money in the game in high sec might not be as fast as some people like it but for a new acct with a little bit of money say 25mil to get started to be able to make 400mil isk in a month is just ridiculous... it needs to have something to counteract it / make it a little more risky.
This is after all EVE we are talking about. ^_^ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
328
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Posted - 2011.10.06 07:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mirak Nijoba wrote:Well 400mil isk a month and all you have to do is check this and move that and run some numbers... It's the safest money in the game in high sec You've never run missions, I take itGǪ GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner United Manufacturing and Technology Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 07:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
That you have a risk...
You are engaging your ship in combat against foes that are attacking you. You have to be active or you have a chance of losing your ship. Should you not be aware of the situation or warp in un-prepared you could lose 100mil + in a level 4.
The only risks you have with PI is spending too much ISK setting it up as a noob, or you can possibly get sui-ganked in high sec by goonswarm for leaving warping into the customs office to pick up your goods. |
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Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.10.06 08:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
The risk is getting your product to market without getting suicide ganked. Of course that will be more difficult for you now that you have let everyone know just how much you are making each month. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
329
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Posted - 2011.10.06 09:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mirak Nijoba wrote:That you have a risk... No, I'm talking about missions. There is no risk.
...and tbh, it's less work than the amount of trucking you need to do to get 400M out of PI (and freedom to do it at your leisure, rather than at specific intervals forced by your installations). GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Sphynix
The Embraced Of Eve The Silent One's
8
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Posted - 2011.10.06 11:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scanning is overpowered!
Because in high sec i can scan 1 site a month and get a module worth 400 mil... |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 13:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Moved from Skills discussions. |
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Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 13:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
You're missing a point.
PI products have no inherent value. If a lot of people got into it, the prices would fall. Make it harder and the prices would rise.
It's overpowered in exactly the same way as manufacturing is overpowered. (It's not. for the hard of thinking.) |
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2011.10.06 13:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Malkuth Delapounti wrote:Ah dude If you can make that much ISK in HIGH SEC With PI then your amazing.
And No you can't. LOL.
Haters gonna hate. Sit down and actually make a spreadsheet because this is completely possible in multiple ways even with a single character. Add another on top of that and its absolutely possible.
Because I'm so tired of people not believing people's claims about how profitable high-security PI can be I'm going to show you the math right now from my spreadsheet.
Alright kids this is based on the following: Operating out of Jita, having a spreadsheet, being able to do simple math, noticing market trends, generally checking something before you go LOL NO, and having Interplanetary Consolidation and Command Center Upgrades IV.
We're going to use 4 planets in New Caldari and 1 in Ikuchi. All are Temperate or Barren and are reasonably small in terms of diameter.
We're going to be making Broadcast Nodes and we need three P3 inputs: Neocoms, Data Chips, and High-Tech Transmitters
Neocoms:
Price to Make from P1 Inputs: 39,710.47 ISK Price to Make from P2 Inputs: 36,366.67 ISK Price to Make from P3 Inputs: 39,889.00 ISK
Data Chips:
Price to Make from P1 Inputs: 35,482.25 ISK Price to Make from P2 Inputs: 39,646.67 ISK Price to Make from P3 Inputs: 45,000.00 ISK
High-Tech Transmitters:
Price to Make from P1 Inputs: 44,660.20ISK Price to Make from P2 Inputs: 48,912.27 ISK Price to Make from P3 Inputs: 56,440.00 ISK
Input Cost Per Broadcast Unit:
P1 Inputs: 719,117.54 ISK P2 Inputs: 749,553.60 ISK P3 Inputs: 847,974.00 ISK
Import and Export Taxes:
55,400.00 ISK - Regardless of which way you make it.
Broker and Market Fees
17,460.00 ISK - Assumes no skills that reduce these fees.
Total Cost Per Broadcast Unit:
P1 Inputs: 791,977.54 ISK P2 Inputs: 822,413.60 ISK P3 Inputs: 920,774.00 ISK
Current Market Value:
873,000.00 - This is the sell order price and numerous units are sold at this price everyday and I used to make these along with Nano-Factories so I know they sell at this price.
Total Profit Per Unit
P1 Inputs: 81,022.46 ISK P2 Inputs: 50,586.40 ISK P3 Inputs: -50,774.00 ISK
Now when we calculate hourly/daily/weekly/monthly profitability we need to consider which planetary infrastructure configuration is going to give us our best option with a single character.
Unfortunately due to current powergrid and CPU limitations it is generally impractical to try to do P1 -> P4 production on a single planet. So let's look at P2 -> P4 production instead.
Given the skills I listed you should be able to fit the following on the planets I listed:
1 Launchpad 4 High-Tech Production Facilities 16 Advanced Production Facilities 1 Storage Facility
This will work well given what we want to produce and current market prices. Neocoms do not vary in price more than a few percent regardless of whether they are made from P1, P2, or P3 input prices. Consequently we can just buy the completed P3 units and focus on making Data Chips and High-Tech Transmitters from P2 components on our planets. Obviously this will impact our overall profit but it's really the only way to go about this efficiently. With additional PI characters which can be trained up to IV skills with decent hauler abilities takes 2 weeks or so you can massively increase your profit margins. Continuing on....
Total Profit from Broadcast Nodes Using P3 Neocoms and Data Chips and High-Tech Transmitters Made from P2 Inputs:
29,452.40 ISK / unit
Assuming we have all five planets configured to produce these we'll have a total of 20 High-Tech Production Facilities making one unit each per hour, thus 20 units per hour. Using this we can calculate profit per hour, day, week and month.
Profit Per Hour: 736,310.00 ISK Profit Per Day: 17,671,440.00 ISK Profit Per Week: 123,700,080.00 ISK Profit Per Month: 494,800,320.00 ISK
Now lets assume you've got an extra character and can make Neocoms from P2 inputs. Look at the massive difference in profit:
Profit Per Hour: 1,264,660.00 ISK Profit Per Day: 30,351,840.00 ISK Profit Per Week: 212,462,880.00 ISK Profit Per Month: 849,851,520.00 ISK
Now lets go really crazy and assume you have two PI alts to support your main's production:
Profit Per Hour: 2,025,561.60 Profit Per Day: 48,613,478.40 ISK Profit Per Week: 340,294,348.80 ISK Profit Per Month: 1,361,177,395.20 ISK
Conclusions
PI can be incredibly profitable. Oh yeah and this is all HIGH SEC so the next time someone says high-sec PI ask for proof because I can assure you that they don't have any. |
Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
27
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Posted - 2011.10.06 14:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
well, you can make billions never undocking from Jita... so what's so OP about making 400M per month with PI?
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Maven Deltor
Bad Sekta
2
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Posted - 2011.10.06 14:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
What Joshua forgot to mention, is your storage is finite. From my experiences with high sec production planets, you will need to visit your planet daily, if not twice a day. Hopefully they are all in the same system, or you'll be doing a lot of flying around.
But that's not even the real problem with this plan. The real problem is the slim margin. 29.5k of 873k is only 3.5%. If prices change at all, you could find yourself deeply invested in a losing venture. You might think this is speculation, but consider this: With Joshua's proposal, you will make 480 Broadcast Nodes daily. Between Oct 1st to Oct 5th, Jita market graph shows 21186 units sold, that's an average of 4237 daily. In other words, one character will be producing more than 10% of Jitas daily market. If you expect to add that much to the market, and not see the price drop equally, you're being foolish.
To the OP: Yea, you can make money with PI. You can probably even make enough to pay for your plex, but you won't be doing a whole lot more than that. It's not considered "overpowered" because the amount of time required is considered worth that much (or more to the buyer). Might as well just get a real job, and enjoy your game time instead of working for some faceless goon. |
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2011.10.06 15:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maven Deltor wrote:What Joshua forgot to mention, is your storage is finite. From my experiences with high sec production planets, you will need to visit your planet daily, if not twice a day. Hopefully they are all in the same system, or you'll be doing a lot of flying around.
But that's not even the real problem with this plan. The real problem is the slim margin. 29.5k of 873k is only 3.5%. If prices change at all, you could find yourself deeply invested in a losing venture. You might think this is speculation, but consider this: With Joshua's proposal, you will make 480 Broadcast Nodes daily. Between Oct 1st to Oct 5th, Jita market graph shows 21186 units sold, that's an average of 4237 daily. In other words, one character will be producing more than 10% of Jitas daily market. If you expect to add that much to the market, and not see the price drop equally, you're being foolish.
To the OP: Yea, you can make money with PI. You can probably even make enough to pay for your plex, but you won't be doing a whole lot more than that. It's not considered "overpowered" because the amount of time required is considered worth that much (or more to the buyer). Might as well just get a real job, and enjoy your game time instead of working for some faceless goon.
That's just one fo the configurations you can possibly setup. That one requires a visit every 14 hours to refill the LP's. Alternatively there are other designs that allow you to visit only once every 40 hours. It all depends on how small the diameters of your planets are and whether you can really conserve MW/CPU used by links. As for Broadcast Nodes being that great a product yeah it becomes a problem when scale is involved, but I was just using that one to illustrate a point on potential profitability. There are much better schemes out there. That one was handy because all the prices for it were recent in my spreadsheet. Also depending on what scheme you do and if you have alts to devote production to you'll have much larger margins. if you do complete P2-P4 production you're looking at 9.68% which is a reasonable amount.
Market fluctuations like you said will be a problem from time to time but with certain goods you see long-term stability. In the end there is an argument to be made between profit vs risk just like in life. The more risk you take the higher the profits generally are and vice versa.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2011.10.06 16:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is just so idiotic.
Good Luck making that 400 Million on one toon in High Sec. MAYBE 250 M, but that's with really great planet resources.
250M / Month is not worth making MORE difficult. It's drop in the bucket. Besides, as pointed out, there is WAY much more money in running Level 4 missions and there is NO threat at all there.
Those Missions bring me over 2 BILLION a month. Why don't we make THEM more risky in High Sec as well, huh ??
Grow a set and do PI in Low Sec. Now, that WILL bring in at least 1.6 BILLION a month, which I do. AND it is super risky.
Lets see you sweat at a Custom Station for pick up and 3 'Canes uncloak.
THERE is your damned risk......................... God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
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Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.10.06 16:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
This thread is lame. 400m is chump change. I guess next the market will be 'OP."
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Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2011.10.06 16:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Joshua Vaughn Lampen wrote:[quote=Malkuth Delapounti]Profit Per Hour: 589,040.00 ISK Profit Per Day: 14,136,960.00 ISK Profit Per Week: 98,958,720 ISK Profit Per Month: 395,834,880 ISK
Now lets assume you've got an extra character and can make Neocoms from P2 inputs. Look at the massive difference in profit:
Profit Per Hour: 1,264,660.00 ISK Profit Per Day: 30,351,840.00 ISK Profit ......................................................
Just quoting a bit of the encyclopedia there for reference not use.
This assumes MAXIMUM output for a planet in High Sec.
There are no more planets left in High with maximum output as almost all are being farmed.
The output currently is anywhere from 25% - 50% Lower than these figures.
I have 3 toons doing Low Sec PI and one doing High.
The high sec output is just not even worth it IMHO. God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.10.06 17:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Joshua Vaughn Lampen wrote:[quote=Malkuth Delapounti]Profit Per Hour: 589,040.00 ISK Profit Per Day: 14,136,960.00 ISK Profit Per Week: 98,958,720 ISK Profit Per Month: 395,834,880 ISK
Now lets assume you've got an extra character and can make Neocoms from P2 inputs. Look at the massive difference in profit:
Profit Per Hour: 1,264,660.00 ISK Profit Per Day: 30,351,840.00 ISK Profit ...................................................... Just quoting a bit of the encyclopedia there for reference not use. This assumes MAXIMUM output for a planet in High Sec.There are no more planets left in High with maximum output as almost all are being farmed. The output currently is anywhere from 25% - 50% Lower than these figures. I have 3 toons doing Low Sec PI and one doing High. The high sec output is just not even worth it IMHO.
Hi there. Clearly you have a hard time reading since you obviously understood nothing that I wrote. Everything I described was for FACTORY PLANET PRODUCTION. There is no extraction being done whatsoever. Everything is being bought at the market and used in constructing higher-end products. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
54
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Posted - 2011.10.06 17:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:...This assumes MAXIMUM output for a planet in High Sec....
...The output currently is anywhere from 25% - 50% Lower than these figures. ...
... The high sec output is just not even worth it IMHO.
Way to read the entire post, not just the part you're quoting, and make false assumptions. |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
18
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Posted - 2011.10.06 17:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Side stepping debate on how much you might be able to earn a month with PI, the whole point of PI is the Dust tie-in. CCP wants these planets to be valuable enough to us FiS guys that we will be willing to pay Dusties to fight over them.
With that goal in mind, I don't think we're there yet. When I can pack up and move to the next planet or system for a minimal expense, why would I pay someone to defend my claim or to kick someone else off of a planet?
IMO, unless the Dust tie-in will be deal only with Sov 0.0 planets, PI needs to become more valuable, not less. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2011.10.06 18:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Joshua Vaughn Lampen wrote: Hi there. Clearly you have a hard time reading since you obviously understood nothing that I wrote. Everything I described was for FACTORY PLANET PRODUCTION. There is no extraction being done whatsoever. Everything is being bought at the market and used in constructing higher-end products.
Then why post ??
This was about the 'Risk" factor of High Sec PI.
Buying off the Market and producing 'up' is not very profitable to begin with, especially since the initial P0 is FREE. You have thereby just about busted any profit possible.
And buying off the Market and producing is not risky at all and contributes NOTHING to the OP posting. God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2011.10.06 18:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote: Way to read the entire post, not just the part you're quoting, and make false assumptions.
I speak from over one year of experience in both High and Low Sec PI, NOT assumption. God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.10.06 18:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
VaMei wrote:Side stepping debate on how much you might be able to earn a month with PI, the whole point of PI is the Dust tie-in. CCP wants these planets to be valuable enough to us FiS guys that we will be willing to pay Dusties to fight over them.
With that goal in mind, I don't think we're there yet. When I can pack up and move to the next planet or system for a minimal expense, why would I pay someone to defend my claim or to kick someone else off of a planet?
IMO, unless the Dust tie-in will be deal only with Sov 0.0 planets, PI needs to become more valuable, not less.
I agree with your thoughts on PI and Dust. It will be interesting to see how it works out. |
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.10.06 18:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Joshua Vaughn Lampen wrote: Hi there. Clearly you have a hard time reading since you obviously understood nothing that I wrote. Everything I described was for FACTORY PLANET PRODUCTION. There is no extraction being done whatsoever. Everything is being bought at the market and used in constructing higher-end products.
Then why post ?? This was about the 'Risk" factor of High Sec PI. Buying off the Market and producing 'up' is not very profitable to begin with, especially since the initial P0 is FREE. You have thereby just about busted any profit possible. And buying off the Market and producing is not risky at all and contributes NOTHING to the OP posting.
Alright kiddo... time to stop drinking out of that shiny can filled with acetone.
Let's review:
Was my post a reply to the OP?
HURR DURR. No it wasn't. GJ bro! Reading failure #2! If you'll use that fancy scroll and page button you might see to whom I was speaking.
Are you capable of understanding basic math?
Don't know why I even bothered asking that question because you clearly struggle with reading. Math must be pretty bad as well.
"Buying off the Market and producing 'up' is not very profitable to begin with, especially since the initial P0 is FREE. You have thereby just about busted any profit possible."
Yeah clearly you struggle with math too. 9.68% profit(849,851,520.00) on a main + alt with 1 hour of refilling on each character every 40 hours is awful. My god the passive income is so bad I should just delete my accounts.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote: Way to read the entire post, not just the part you're quoting, and make false assumptions.
I speak from over one year of experience in both High and Low Sec PI, NOT assumption.
This is like arguing that you know more about mining because you click on more asteroids than anyone. PI is not a difficult subject by any means.
And yes you made false assumptions by claiming:
Quote:Just quoting a bit of the encyclopedia there for reference not use.
This assumes MAXIMUM output for a planet in High Sec.
There are no more planets left in High with maximum output as almost all are being farmed.
The output currently is anywhere from 25% - 50% Lower than these figures.
I have 3 toons doing Low Sec PI and one doing High.
The high sec output is just not even worth it IMHO.
You didn't even bother to read the post before declaring its claims erroneous.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2011.10.08 02:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Joshua Vaughn Lampen wrote:
You didn't even bother to read the post before declaring its claims erroneous. The point is that there are different benefits to operating in low and high-sec. Do you need to be in low-sec to make a lot of ISK from PI? Based on what you think you know from your YEAR of experience you clearly think so. The truth is if you do your homework you can find many markets in which to operate and profit.
Low Sec PI and it's production LIMIT (based on the CPU and Power limits of the Command Centers themselves) has a built-in limit to how much P1 can be produced from P0.
Somewhere in there is your answer if you crunch the numbers.
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
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