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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
477
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Posted - 2012.12.12 19:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:Please stop making threads about the drones. The situation is this: They put the AI changes on the test server. People immediately brought up the drones. CCP acknowledged it. People continued to be worried about drones if this went live. CCP pushed the AI change live in spite of not having any changes to mission scripts or drones. What do you want them to say? Yes we know we ****** all you Gallente users, soz too bad. We needed the AI pushed to halt the influx of ISK. Drones will be done later, or never. Suck it up. Here's the thread with dev responses. Read all 36 pages. Note how FoxFour just fades away when it's clear that the community is getting rather pissed off. That discussion happened when the changes were on the Test server. They pushed them live anyway, despite feedback.
Your summary is pretty accurate, as I have been living in that thread for some time. But you are off on one point.
At no time did CCP acknowledge this was to be an attack on ISK generation. They have wanted that all along, and are giggling like school girls about the devastation they have wrought on ISK generation, but they have NEVER publicly acknowledged or stated that was the main thrust of this change.
Further, it is complete lie that there is a need to wipe out ISK generation. Their own dev's just released a blog stating that outside of plex prices, the Eve economy is experiencing a DEFLATIONARY period.
What is far more telling is how the damage to null sec income was mitigated for this release. 1.CCP Fox Four stated back in November that plex structures (eg. Neut towers, Citadel Torps, web Towers) would not have the new AI applied to them. The vast, vast. vast majority of plexes this impacts are found in deep low sec and null sec. 2. CCP also changed (was announced in the blogs) that all Citadel Torps would now do the same type of damage associated with the rats in a plex. (ie. Sanshas to EM, Guristas do Kin, etc). There was a thread created supposedly by a null sec plexer immediately after this was tested on Duality. In that thread he complained that the Plexes he was running in null sec were now TOO EASY, not too hard.
So let's recap: Mission running, primarily a high sec function, is hammered into the ground. Plex running, primarily a null sec function, has changes made to them to mitigate the damage done to ISK generation in them. And CCP does not say a word about any of this.
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Ayx Shewma
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.12.12 19:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:This thread again?
Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones. Thats just it, I dont fail at drones :) I cant be arsed to pull sentries every 5 seconds. The game begins to get boring fast. In fact its fair to assume that tracking and speed need to be looked at because how a cruiser tracks anything going 5000 MS is beyond me :P
Generally, when considering human behavior, people get 'bored' when there is a lack of activity.
Congratulations on your unprecedented achievement as the first human to get 'bored' by an increase in stuff to do. You truly are a marvel. |
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
66
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 19:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ayx Shewma wrote:TriadSte wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:This thread again?
Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones. Thats just it, I dont fail at drones :) I cant be arsed to pull sentries every 5 seconds. The game begins to get boring fast. In fact its fair to assume that tracking and speed need to be looked at because how a cruiser tracks anything going 5000 MS is beyond me :P Generally, when considering human behavior, people get 'bored' when there is a lack of activity. Congratulations on your unprecedented achievement as the first human to get 'bored' by an increase in stuff to do. You truly are a marvel. repetitive behavior is boring, even if there is more of it. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 19:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
What would be fun to see (oh, the tears!) would be if drone boat NPCs were given the ability to "hack" player drones, setting them against the pilot, requiring recall.
That would be seriously sweet. Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |
Blind Phew
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.12.12 20:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: Honestly, this making a new thread just to get their attention is no different from a child throwing a tantrum for the same thing.
AWWWW MOM!!!!!
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
594
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 20:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Merouk Baas wrote:Please stop making threads about the drones. The situation is this: They put the AI changes on the test server. People immediately brought up the drones. CCP acknowledged it. People continued to be worried about drones if this went live. CCP pushed the AI change live in spite of not having any changes to mission scripts or drones. What do you want them to say? Yes we know we ****** all you Gallente users, soz too bad. We needed the AI pushed to halt the influx of ISK. Drones will be done later, or never. Suck it up. Here's the thread with dev responses. Read all 36 pages. Note how FoxFour just fades away when it's clear that the community is getting rather pissed off. That discussion happened when the changes were on the Test server. They pushed them live anyway, despite feedback. Your summary is pretty accurate, as I have been living in that thread for some time. But you are off on one point. At no time did CCP acknowledge this was to be an attack on ISK generation. They have wanted that all along, and are giggling like school girls about the devastation they have wrought on ISK generation, but they have NEVER publicly acknowledged or stated that was the main thrust of this change. Further, it is complete lie that there is a need to wipe out ISK generation. Their own dev's just released a blog stating that outside of plex prices, the Eve economy is experiencing a DEFLATIONARY period. What is far more telling is how the damage to null sec income was mitigated for this release. 1.CCP Fox Four stated back in November that plex structures (eg. Neut towers, Citadel Torps, web Towers) would not have the new AI applied to them. The vast, vast. vast majority of plexes this impacts are found in deep low sec and null sec. 2. CCP also changed (was announced in the blogs) that all Citadel Torps would now do the same type of damage associated with the rats in a plex. (ie. Sanshas to EM, Guristas do Kin, etc). There was a thread created supposedly by a null sec plexer immediately after this was tested on Duality. In that thread he complained that the Plexes he was running in null sec were now TOO EASY, not too hard. So let's recap: Mission running, primarily a high sec function, is hammered into the ground. Plex running, primarily a null sec function, has changes made to them to mitigate the damage done to ISK generation in them. And CCP does not say a word about any of this.
Doesn't that tinfoil hat ever start to itch?
Not applying the AI to overseer structures and towers (that god the neut towers in fleet staging points don't switch) was a concession, but it took a LONG time of point out the problem before they did that.
and that's all the fixed, plexes like Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (with it's 20 battleships in the last room) are insane even for well organized Incursion like fleets, even though you can hold aggro from the torp chucking station.
And the change to the damage done from the Citadel torps didn't come from FoxFour's team, it was just something thrown in by someone else.
If you could get over you irrational paranoia against null sec for one second (or hell, just take your medication, I know you have some) you'd see that the way CCP went about this had a negative (if not game breaking) affect on many of us all over the place, not just high sec.
Hellfire, losing DRONES in high sec lvl 4s doesn't hold a candle to losing FIGHTERs in low sec lvl 5s or Faction battleships in a null plex (yes I lost a rattlesnake in an attempt to figure out a plex, funny thing is the plex dropped a Bhaalgorn BPC, didn't want that snake noways). CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
starbelt stacy
Project-Gonk
58
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Posted - 2012.12.12 20:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.
The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.
Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?
Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?
I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.
On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]
CCP want PvE to be nerfed partly due to the null-sec whiners stamping their feet and throwing a hissy fit, and also to nerf your hi-sec income, so you either buy plex or move to null-sec to become blob fodder for the ego stroking elite in EvE, which you will end up being forced to buy plex anyhoo due to not being left alone in peace to make isk due to above mentioned ego strokers blobbing / griefing you.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
594
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 20:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
starbelt stacy wrote:TriadSte wrote:Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.
The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.
Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?
Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?
I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.
On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]
CCP want PvE to be nerfed partly due to the null-sec whiners stamping their feet and throwing a hissy fit, and also to nerf your hi-sec income, so you either buy plex or move to null-sec to become blob fodder for the ego stroking elite in EvE, which you will end up being forced to buy plex anyhoo due to not being left alone in peace to make isk due to above mentioned ego strokers blobbing / griefing you.
Screw trying to fight it, ima go get me a tinfoil hat now too.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
60
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 20:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:TriadSte wrote:This isnt a rant though so it should be allowed to continue.
I have an issue with threads getting locked constantly because in my eyes that's a sure sign of knowing they've done wrong and don't want to comment or have their game look bad.
What do server hosters in FPS game do to better players? they get kickbanned...because the bad player hates looking bad.
Same here in truth. I think the community should have a place to say what they think, more so we have a right to voice our opinion as its us directly funding CCP as a company.
Without us CCP liquidates.
Its that simple. It's a redundant thread. Already in progress. You don't start a new one, you add your "not a rant" to an existing one. They will lock it because it's not necessary, this discussion is already taking place. They're not trying to silence anyone, they lock redundant threads to keep the front page of the forums clear for as many topics open for discussion as possible. Why don't you check a few out, you might find the one you are looking for.
Most of them are locked because of trolls like you. The OP has an issue and he has started a discussion. Let him do it - also try to find a more constructive way of living your life instead of trying to be a **** to others. |
starbelt stacy
Project-Gonk
58
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 20:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
no tin foil hat needed... what i said is based on fact.
just wait til the next patch comes out and hi-sec incomes will be nerfed further until the game becomes so niche it will die out due to not having enough subscribers and we will all see the announcements of eve online servers finally being shut down. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1893
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 20:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
CraftyCroc wrote:Most of them are locked because of trolls like you. The OP has an issue and he has started a discussion. Let him do it - also try to find a more constructive way of living your life instead of trying to be a **** to others. Sounds like the operation was successful in the past. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Merouk Baas
81
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 21:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
starbelt stacy wrote:no tin foil hat needed... what i said is based on fact.
just wait til the next patch comes out and hi-sec incomes will be nerfed further until the game becomes so niche it will die out due to not having enough subscribers and we will all see the announcements of eve online servers finally being shut down.
So EVE is dying, check. Been waiting for the announcements for a few years now.
Starting a betting pool. Send 100 Mio ISK and your guess to when the announcements will be made; person with the closest guess gets 100% of the pot! **
** In order to verify the accuracy of the winner's prediction, payment will be made during the final server countdown. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
223
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 21:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.
Please tell me you don't work in any business that requires you to be interacting with paying customers. EvE Forum Bingo |
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
296
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 21:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
death2alldrones
all drones must die, drone proliferation is finally being dealt with Follow me on twitter |
Pretty GuyYeah
33
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 21:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Ooooh, another dronewhine thread. Ill sit this one out and let everyone else take a whack at it.
I have yet to see you make one, single useful post. Remove local. Revamp or buff drones. Buff low and nullsec. Limit null camping possibilities. |
Phil Da Agony
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 22:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
"Working as intented".
Heres your response, now move the f*** on.
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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
386
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 01:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones. Please tell me you don't work in any business that requires you to be interacting with paying customers.
I'm in PR. I tell customers what they want. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
959
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 02:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Response from CCP, and everyone else, can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
387
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 02:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
After seeing that, it is my humble opinion that CCP are the greatest game devs to ever exist. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Diabhal Dunmharu
House of Pain LLC. Insane Asylum
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 22:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:This thread again?
Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.
Funny how responses like this get so many likes. I beleive this game is just full of trolls because it isn't the fact that people lose drones, but recalling heavy drones over and over make drone boats like 50% slower to do missions than anything else. This is a fact and I've tried everything from target painters to ECM to hold aggro and you will still have to recall drones on a regular during certain missions. You will still lose some drones even if you recall as soon as NPC switch to them, but that isn't as bad as the time it takes to get the mission completed. Just because you can do missions in a drone boat doens't mean you should. I would suggest that everyone who trained 60 days for really good drone skills instead of the 22 for missiles or tiurret skills just quit the game. If you drones did 50% more damgage than turrets, you might complete missions at the same rate after all the recalling of drones you have to do if you use heavies. |
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Flakey Foont
201
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.
The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.
Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?
Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?
I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.
On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]
This is completely untrue. I fly drone boats and it works fine in PVE. A little harder yes. If you think they are useless you didn't know how to fly 'em in the first place. This argument is stale and is simply whining. Can you AFK anymore? No.
Plus, why did you feel the need to start yet another thread on this? Are you a special snowflake? |
Anyura
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 22:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:And yes, like you I would very much like to see any Dev comment on the drone issue. So far, it's been over a week and not a peep from anyone. A simple "we won't be touching drones in near future" would be more than sufficient to let us know, so we can cross-train and stop wasting time. Honestly, if they just told us, openly "If you're a drone user, you're ****ed!" I would be totally fine with that. I just need information! Talk to us!
Please don't touch my drones. They bleep and whine so distressingly whenever they see you...
...you haven't....done anything to them, have you? |
Diabhal Dunmharu
House of Pain LLC. Insane Asylum
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 22:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Flakey Foont wrote:TriadSte wrote:Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.
The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.
Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?
Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?
I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.
On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]
This is completely untrue. I fly drone boats and it works fine in PVE. A little harder yes. If you think they are useless you didn't know how to fly 'em in the first place. This argument is stale and is simply whining. Can you AFK anymore? No. Plus, why did you feel the need to start yet another thread on this? Are you a special snowflake?
Trollolo. It isn't rocket science to attack a ship with drones ******. You can stare at the screen, attack NPC with same size drones and kill elite NPC first and you will still end up recalling drones 10 times on some missions. This makes for the slowest mission running in the game. That is a fact and nothing can change this truth. I've done everything from ecm to target painters+remotre rep on sentry drones. The people who are most affected by this are those who like to use heavy, medium, and light drones instead of sentries. |
Diabhal Dunmharu
House of Pain LLC. Insane Asylum
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 22:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
Anyura wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:And yes, like you I would very much like to see any Dev comment on the drone issue. So far, it's been over a week and not a peep from anyone. A simple "we won't be touching drones in near future" would be more than sufficient to let us know, so we can cross-train and stop wasting time. Honestly, if they just told us, openly "If you're a drone user, you're ****ed!" I would be totally fine with that. I just need information! Talk to us! Please don't touch my drones. They bleep and whine so distressingly whenever they see you... ...you haven't....done anything to them, have you?
Nothing makes more sense. Most of my frusteration is that I don't know if drones are a waste of time now or if I can continue to train in them. |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
106
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 22:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
........
Holy crap. How have I never seen this?
I need to get a job with CCP.
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Ildryn
Xiloite
67
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 23:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Haven't noticed a change...i never afked missions. To be honest level 4 missions should be moved to low sec. Gallente ships not broken. Kronos works fine. So does the Dominix. Sentries (drones) + Turrets work fine.
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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
1416
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 00:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Went and did some L4s just to see how they were, bringing extra drones because of all the hysteria, and didn't lose a single one. I didn't even have to recall them to lose aggro. I noticed no change whatsoever.
Would be hilarious if the game is watching players for activity and sending the NPCs after anyone who appears AFK. "The nice thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive." ~Kenneth Williams |
Bennet Am
Seekers of Oblivion
11
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Posted - 2013.01.11 00:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
I use drones in PVE.
When Ret. released it was a bit harder to use them. Now that they patched it, it is easier again. My drones barely ever get aggro.
I suspect there is a difference between people who use drones at close range and people who use drones at long range. If I have interpreted posts correctly, the long range drone users have had their playstyle crushed.
I am going to guess they will have to adapt. I don't think CCP will change anything because that playstyle is too similiar to what bots do.
Get in close, melt faces, tank the damage and let your drones go crazy.
Sentries might need work, but your lose credibility with such extreme claims. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13458
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 00:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Diabhal Dunmharu wrote:Funny how responses like this get so many likes. I beleive this game is just full of trolls because it isn't the fact that people lose drones, but recalling heavy drones over and over make drone boats like 50% slower to do missions than anything else. This is a fact and I've tried everything from target painters to ECM to hold aggro and you will still have to recall drones on a regular during certain missions. You will still lose some drones even if you recall as soon as NPC switch to them, but that isn't as bad as the time it takes to get the mission completed. Just because you can do missions in a drone boat doens't mean you should. I would suggest that everyone who trained 60 days for really good drone skills instead of the 22 for missiles or tiurret skills just quit the game. If you drones did 50% more damgage than turrets, you might complete missions at the same rate after all the recalling of drones you have to do if you use heavies. What's not so funny, is how you bumped this awful thread with an equally bad wall of text.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
943
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 00:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dude, just stop trying. I did. CCP does not comment on the state of drones any more, in PvP or PvE. Put "CCP" and "drones" in one topic, and you are virtually guaranteed no blue tag. Do yourself a favour and cross-train away from drone boats like everyone else. |
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