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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
180
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Posted - 2012.12.31 16:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Big Forehead wrote:For close to 200mil sp, you really have no idea what you're talking about do you?
Let's list the things you mentioned that made me laugh:
AB PVP Vargur Using a utility slot on the vargur for a cloak Believing that you will ever be fighting ECM ships solo Thinks anybody who flies a vindi won't fit an exp hardener right away Thinks that a 1v1 manfight vindi vs vargur will ever happen
And the general way you think a pvp fight progresses, dear god.
Also, towards Demolishar, the reason I mentioned the powergrid being bad is the fact that it's very difficult to fit the guns, a heavy cap booster, a shield booster, MWD, and then also fill your 3 utility highs with useful things like smartbombs/neuts.
Well, here's my take on it......I don't gang **** with 10 ships versus a single hostile ship, post the kill on killboards and even attempt to claim it was PVP to begin with....That's one.
Two, in 0.0 space and in order to keep your ship safe and unscannable as well as allowing you to pick your targets, a cloak is pretty much mandatory and that goes double if you're in hostile space.
Three, i didn't say i'd be fighting ECM ships solo, i said it would take an ECM ship to jam me, despite my low sensor strenght and those ships don't do much damage so they'd have to call for backup, while my premise is 1 on 1 fights and prefferably with equal class ships( battleship versus battleship and so forth)....Not the defensless haulers some boast about killing as if it was a huge thing.
Fourth, fitting an explosive hardeners still makes the explosive resist the lowest on the ship.....I've tried every possible combination on a vindicator and explosive is always the lowest resist if you're aiming for an omni tanking ship with good resists towards all types of damage, and by good resists, i mean upwards of 80% resists across all damage types.....Marauders can acheive this and all T1, fleet or pirate ships simply can't do it unless you go for some crazy expensive fit. |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
180
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 16:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nastasjjia wrote:The problem with your argument is that most PVP situations happen at close range when a OMGWTFIGOTHOTDROPPED fleet starts raping you in the face. Your 70 kms range is cool and all... if you can see em coming. Besides, a Vindi can hit you as far as 50 kms. Reliably under 40kms. You're getting hurt under 35 kms. Under 30kms Time to consider ejecting. Under 20kms your shields have failed and you're dual webbed, under 10 kms you're getting 1600+ DPS or more blowing your teeth out, and then they hand the ashes to your wife. Vindi all the way
Well in my particular case, wich the ship is extremely well fitted( I.E expensive), i have upwards of 85% resist to heat and kinetic damage on the shields, and the shield booster reps 1700 shields every 4 secs.....Basically the blasters on your vindicator in a 1 on 1 fight would hardly register as damage.
Nott saying it to be mean or anything, but it's just a fact. |
Nastasjjia
The xPlicit Method
13
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Posted - 2012.12.31 19:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:Nastasjjia wrote:The problem with your argument is that most PVP situations happen at close range when a OMGWTFIGOTHOTDROPPED fleet starts raping you in the face. Your 70 kms range is cool and all... if you can see em coming. Besides, a Vindi can hit you as far as 50 kms. Reliably under 40kms. You're getting hurt under 35 kms. Under 30kms Time to consider ejecting. Under 20kms your shields have failed and you're dual webbed, under 10 kms you're getting 1600+ DPS or more blowing your teeth out, and then they hand the ashes to your wife. Vindi all the way Well in my particular case, wich the ship is extremely well fitted( I.E expensive), i have upwards of 85% resist to heat and kinetic damage on the shields, and the shield booster reps 1700 shields every 4 secs.....Basically the blasters on your vindicator in a 1 on 1 fight would hardly register as damage. Nott saying it to be mean or anything, but it's just a fact.
D.P.S. = Damage Per Second
Your ship is repairing 1700 every 4 seconds?
So that means the Vindi is doing approximately 1600 D.P.S. x 4 seconds = 6400 damage in 4 seconds.
Which means you're dead regardless of your 85% resists... right? Am I failing on the math here guys?
A-á blonde with P.M.S. and a Vindicator is the most powerful force in Eve. Screw the DoomsDay Device. She just figured out how to make blaster rounds out of Estrogen... |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
180
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 00:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nastasjjia wrote:D.P.S. = Damage Per Second Your ship is repairing 1700 every 4 seconds? So that means the Vindi is doing approximately 1600 D.P.S. x 4 seconds = 6400 damage in 4 seconds. Which means you're dead regardless of your 85% resists... right? Am I failing on the math here guys?
On the damage types it can do you are correct, meaning heat and kinetic and not taking the resists of the target into the calculations at all, meaning a target with 0% resists and you firing at your optimal.
Firing at my ship, wiith it's high resists, you're pissing away 85% of the vindicators damage output right off the top BEFORE i even turn on the shield booster at all.
So 1600 DPS minus 85% = 240 DPS on my ship per second, or close to 1000 DPS every 4 seconds and i rep 1700 shield every 4 seconds, so the end result is that you're not breaking my tank at all, as i don't need to keep it running all the time to begin with, but my guns keep firing the whole time since they don't need cap.
One on one, it is very difficult to take out a well fitted marauder basically, even more so one that doesn't need cap to fire it's guns and does all damage types( golem and vargur being the prime examples)
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Nastasjjia
The xPlicit Method
13
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Posted - 2013.01.01 00:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:Nastasjjia wrote:D.P.S. = Damage Per Second Your ship is repairing 1700 every 4 seconds? So that means the Vindi is doing approximately 1600 D.P.S. x 4 seconds = 6400 damage in 4 seconds. Which means you're dead regardless of your 85% resists... right? Am I failing on the math here guys? On the damage types it can do you are correct, meaning heat and kinetic and not taking the resists of the target into the calculations at all, meaning a target with 0% resists and you firing at your optimal. Firing at my ship, wiith it's high resists, you're pissing away 85% of the vindicators damage output right off the top BEFORE i even turn on the shield booster at all. So 1600 DPS minus 85% = 240 DPS on my ship per second, or close to 1000 DPS every 4 seconds and i rep 1700 shield every 4 seconds so the end result is that you're not breaking my tank at all as i don't need to keep it running all the time to bgin with, but my guns keep firing the whole time since they don't need cap.
And what do the calculations come out to when the guns are over-heated?
I think the Vindi can do around 2400 DPS approximately overheated... no boosters...
And you're assuming that the Vindi pilot doesn't have the proper ammo loaded. Right?
I dunno man. I think that tank would melt.
A-á blonde with P.M.S. and a Vindicator is the most powerful force in Eve. Screw the DoomsDay Device. She just figured out how to make blaster rounds out of Estrogen... |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
180
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 00:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nastasjjia wrote:
And what do the calculations come out to when the guns are over-heated?
I think the Vindi can do around 2400 DPS approximately overheated... no boosters...
And you're assuming that the Vindi pilot doesn't have the proper ammo loaded. Right?
I dunno man. I think that tank would melt.
Over heating the guns, wich only lasts maybe 2 mins if you're not on a tech 3 cruiser wich is has a specific bonus to make overheating last longer, adds maybe another 20~25% damage and is done as a last resort exclusively since the vindi becomes defenseless if the guns are damaged.
So let's add that extra 25% damage to the 1600 DPS.....It equals 2000 DPS, wich if you then take the 85% resists, equals 300 DPS wich is 1200 DPS every 4 secs, and my tank is still handling it( 1700 shield every 4 secs remember?), not to mention that i can also overheat my guns too and get more damage.....I just don't need to.
And regardles of the ammo on the vindicator, you're always doing the same 2 types of damage and only the ranges at wich you can do said damage vary if using longer ranged ammo.....The extreme figures quoted are for the highest damage types possible when the ship is basically right on the targets face.
I do the 1200 DPS i quoted from 70 kms away....
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Nastasjjia
The xPlicit Method
13
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Posted - 2013.01.01 01:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:Nastasjjia wrote:
And what do the calculations come out to when the guns are over-heated?
I think the Vindi can do around 2400 DPS approximately overheated... no boosters...
And you're assuming that the Vindi pilot doesn't have the proper ammo loaded. Right?
I dunno man. I think that tank would melt.
Over heating the guns, wich only lasts maybe 2 mins if you're not on a tech 3 cruiser wich is has a specific bonus to make overheating last longer, adds maybe another 20~25% damage and is done as a last resort exclusively since the vindi becomes defenseless if the guns are damaged. So let's add that extra 25% damage to the 1600 DPS.....It equals 2000 DPS, wich if you then take the 85% resists, equals 300 DPS wich is 1200 DPS every 4 secs, and my tank is still handling it( 1700 shield every 4 secs remember?), not to mention that i can also overheat my guns too and get more damage.....I just don't need to. And regardles of the ammo on the vindicator, you're always doing the same 2 types of damage and only the ranges at wich you can do said damage vary if using longer ranged ammo.....The extreme figures quoted are for the highest damage types possible when the ship is basically right on the targets face. I do the 1200 DPS i quoted from 70 kms away....
And if you're within 10 kms like most pvp situations? Hows your DPS then? How long til you cap out?
A-á blonde with P.M.S. and a Vindicator is the most powerful force in Eve. Screw the DoomsDay Device. She just figured out how to make blaster rounds out of Estrogen... |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
180
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 02:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nastasjjia wrote:
And if you're within 10 kms like most pvp situations? Hows your DPS then? How long til you cap out?
It depends if you can push the shield tank to the point where i'm forced to leave it on all the time, and even then i'd still have the capacitor charges and the cap injector to rely on, wich is backed up by the very large cargo bay on marauders, wich are almost 2x larger than on t1, fleet or pirate BS's......Capping out can happen but only after a pretty prolonged fight, assuming a single battleship could break the vargurs tank to begin with and the math doesn't add up.
This isn't to say that the vindicator is a bad ship in the least, but it isn't the end all and be all PVP ship to fear, depending on what you fly, and marauders hold their own......
The best analogy is that of sharks in the real world, and them not spending time and effort hunting other sharks, wich puts them at risk of getting wounded or even killed, but rather spend the effort hunting easier to kill prey. |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
180
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 16:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
There is a natural enemy to pretty much every turret based, active tanked ship out there in 1 on 1 slugfests, and i'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet since it has several advantages:
The bhaalgorn....
1: It only has 4 turrets but does the same damage of 8, so it's the same as marauders in that sense. 2: It doesn't need ammo to fire it's guns, only cap. 3: It NOS and Neut bonus is insane in this thing as it can completely cap out BS's in record time( think under a minute easy).
Only a specifically fitted ship that uses missile launchers( they don't need cap at all) with a completely passive tank( also does not need cap) that's heavily tanked agaisnt laser damage( EM and heat) might have a chance against a bhaalgorn. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
306
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Posted - 2013.01.02 07:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Id probably fit a Bhaalgorn, down some pills and then trash gatecamps like a Boss. |
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Reiisha
Evolution The Retirement Club
187
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Posted - 2013.01.02 10:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:There is a natural enemy to pretty much every turret based, active tanked ship out there in 1 on 1 slugfests, and i'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet since it has several advantages: The bhaalgorn.... 1: It only has 4 turrets but does the same damage of 8, so it's the same as marauders in that sense. 2: It doesn't need ammo to fire it's guns, only cap so there's no need to ressuply for ammo. 3: It NOS and Neut bonus is insane in this thing as it can completely cap out BS's in record time( think under a minute easy). 4: With the cristals using so little cargo space, it leaves more than enough for cap charges and a capacitor injector of it's own. 5: It's actually cheaper than a vindicator . Only a specifically fitted ship that uses missile launchers( they don't need cap at all) with a completely passive tank( also does not need cap) that's heavily tanked agaisnt laser damage( EM and heat) might have a chance against a bhaalgorn, and of those only 1 or 2 ships comes to mind: Navy scorpion with 8 mid slots and using torpedos, both of wich don't need cap and can fire all damage types or the T2 variant in black ops form, the widow wich can sneak up to the bhaalgorn while cloaked and attack it by surprise and also has 8 mid slots but with higher base resists.
Passively tanked scorpion navy issue and rattlesnake may give the bhaalgorn a run for it's money again ;p |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
181
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Posted - 2013.01.02 18:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:]
Passively tanked scorpion navy issue and rattlesnake may give the bhaalgorn a run for it's money again ;p
Indeed they might......Personally, i've only had a friend using a regular raven that was passively tanked, torpedo fitted and using a single large NOS to keep it's webber, warp scrambler and target painter operational, and the raven had good passive resists to EM and heat damage while i was in my bhaalgorn and i still managed to kill it, though the fight took several minutes and i was almost in hull when his ship blew up.
The main point though is that there isn't a single umbeatable and invincible ship in the game, and they all have particular advantages that if another pilot knows what you're flying and knows the ships bonuses , they can counter most of it's advantages and give you a pretty close fight....Obviously this is just on 1 on 1 scenarios wich are increadibly rare these days as it's all about the gang or size of the fleets involved.
The funny thing is that the fleet scorpion you mentioned only costs 300 million, versus the 1.2 billion of a bhaalgorn or the 1.6 billion of a vindicator, so price is no direct indication that one ship is better that the others....It all depends on the situation and how the ships are fitted. |
Gal'o Sengen
State War Academy Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2013.01.03 07:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
All the answers in this thread are wrong. The best ship is the Blaster Tengu, because nobody ever expects a Blaster Tengu. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
502
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Posted - 2013.01.03 14:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
An Ibis
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DroneKing Aideron
The xPlicit Method TERRA FIRMA.
4
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Posted - 2013.01.03 22:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
A Tristan because it's one of the few ships I can fly...and you will probably kill me...but if I zerg rush you eventually I am going to get lucky.
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. DroneKing |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
137
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Posted - 2013.01.07 15:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Eidolon.
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Solotta Erquilenne
1
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Posted - 2013.01.07 17:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
I have pirate BS in my hangar. Sometimes I use them. If isk was no object, I'd be using an Andrestia or something.
As for the lol-vargur vs vindicator discussion. A multi-billion isk vargur fit to active tank is going to survive really well vs a straight brawler. That said, the Vindicator is extremely capable of blowing through very strong active tanks. It will web you at 17km w/o gang boosts, and then it will hold you at 6km and shoot you with void because you're a battleship. If this doesn't kill you, it'll turn around and waddle off while you're stuck, although he certainly won't be able to run away from your damage without jumping/warping/docking. Vindictors are quite agile even when plated. Once I was moving a vindi with 7 nanos/inertia stabs through empire, and gate-to-gate it would enter warp long before it would finish aligning. |
terzslave
RedStar Enterprises RA Citizens
124
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Posted - 2013.01.10 09:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Avatar. |
Velarra
192
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Posted - 2013.01.15 00:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ibis. |
zatazon
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
37
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Posted - 2013.01.15 02:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Caldari Shuttle with a cargehold full of rocket fuel for suicide runs on Jita undock.
or
a Hawk |
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Ryric Cynema
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
23
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Posted - 2013.01.15 03:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
Armageddon Navy Issue. I'm space poor and haven't tried it, but on a legit 1v1, I think it would do very well. |
Reine Grey
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.15 18:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Megathron or Deimos! Probably Megathron because of the horrible things I've seen people do to gate campers with them. I've never flown a battleship or a T2 ship, but these two are on my "investigate further" list! pü¬püôpü+püºsƒïpüæpéïn+ƒ |
Tialee
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
15
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rifter |
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