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Anabelle Martinez
Vermis foramen Industrius Union 0f Revolution
0
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Posted - 2012.12.14 01:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
At the moment I fly the Proteus but using T2 blasters and having to fly around the mission field to get in range seems slow. I've got about equal skills for a Tengu but am unsure if it will be better ISK/Hour with a Tengu over a Proteus.
The only advantage of the Protues I can see at the moment is being able to grab full aggro in a room and not worry about it. |
BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
23
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Posted - 2012.12.14 01:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Proteus isn't that great for missions, to do anything with blasters you need to fit an MWD which is bad for your sig radius and cap and there are a whole bunch of other ships that'll do the drone thing better and cheaper.
Tengu even with the HML nerf is still alright for running missions and you can even go for a HAM fit Starships were meant to fly~ |
Anabelle Martinez
Vermis foramen Industrius Union 0f Revolution
0
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Posted - 2012.12.14 01:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Anything better you could suggest ISK/Hour wise? Can't use T2 battleships at the moment so I am a bit limited on choice. |
BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
23
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Posted - 2012.12.14 01:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Depends on how much you want to spend really, the Machariel is probably the most popular option but that's like 1.4 bill for the hull alone. Rattlesnake is pretty good too but I'm not sure how badly your drones will suffer, and of course there's the Nightmare if you like lasers Starships were meant to fly~ |
Anabelle Martinez
Vermis foramen Industrius Union 0f Revolution
0
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Posted - 2012.12.14 01:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hmm, always did like the rattlesnake. Might take advantage of both my missile and drone skills. I'll give that one a shot.
Thanks much! |
Zaq Phelps
Ad idem
4
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Posted - 2012.12.14 02:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Anabelle Martinez wrote:At the moment I fly the Proteus but using T2 blasters and having to fly around the mission field to get in range seems slow. I've got about equal skills for a Tengu but am unsure if it will be better ISK/Hour with a Tengu over a Proteus.
The only advantage of the Protues I can see at the moment is being able to grab full aggro in a room and not worry about it.
Tengu is quite capable of pulling full room aggro. Also HAMs are win now since they now are affected by GMP skill. HAMs can now do 800-900dps out to 23km (without range rigs or implants) and one volley frigates if painted, webbed, or the tengu is rigor/flare rigged. Since the tengu flys around at about 500-700 m/s depending on the afterburner, the lack of range vs HML is not really an issue. Also the high damage t2 ammo no longer gimps your tank by increasing your sig radius.
tl:dr Tengu is not a bad ship like everyone thought it would be after the HML nerf. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
201
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Posted - 2012.12.14 10:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
post missile change the tengu is still ok in L4's
Prec HM -> 450dps @ 45km Fury HM -> 600dps @ 70km CN HM -> 500dps @ 90km |
Backfyre
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.12.14 16:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I experimented with blaster vs rail proteus and found a T2 rail version runs missions faster because you can spank targets out past 80km with iridium charges. I have 5x T2 rails and 5x T2 medium drones to get 500+ total DPS with plain vanilla anti-matter. More when I can fit more damage mods.
Rail proteus is not the ship of choice for the leet min/max mission runner, but it's not a bad choice either. It may even beat out the Domi all things considered. |
Bigg Gun
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.17 05:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go |
Backfyre
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.12.17 17:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bigg Gun wrote:Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go Sounds like EFT warrior numbers. How's that Domi do on time when you have 50km to the next gate? What is your "true" DPS when you account for waiting for those 120km targets to close range? How about pulling those drones back in when they get aggro under the new AI. How about swapping out the sentries when the frigs get too close or starting a mission where you are at point blank range on a dozen rats?
All that said, Navy Domi may be better than a proteus. Tengu is not a bad choice either. If you're gonna retrain to minimize time, there are better choices. |
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M1k3y Koontz
Blackened Skies
73
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Posted - 2012.12.17 22:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tengu was, and remains (with HAMs) the god of PVE.
Tengu > Prot in isk/hour in pretty much all forms of PVE
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Earl Hazard
Lightbringer's Sanctuary RAZOR Alliance
18
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Posted - 2012.12.18 00:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Proteus is very decent pve ship using rails. Tengu is still very good even after the hml nerf. Neither is the best at lvl 4s but very passable. I do like to rat in the proteus but can't give you a great reason why other than I like it.
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Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
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Posted - 2012.12.18 01:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tengu is very solid even following missile changes.
I use the Proteus as my Kin/Therm mission runner where I believe it does very well. You do need to minimise tank and max gank to be effective though. It is especially good versus Serpentis where high mobility and close range DPS can counteract some of the sensor damping issues.
What is your fit like ?Are you using a microwarpdrive? |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies
128
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Posted - 2012.12.18 02:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Proteus is more of a PvP boat or for WHs. |
Backfyre
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.12.18 19:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Tengu was, and remains (with HAMs) the god of PVE. A bit overstated. It was good but by no means "godly". My Kronos would beat out a tengu. I ran many missions with a corp mate with him in a heavy missile tengu. I popped the rats notably faster than he did. If you're talking a HAM tengu, you're back to the OP's original issue of spending a lot of time closing range.
Either tengu or proteus will do just fine. Just use a decent fit with plenty of range and gank. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2398
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Posted - 2012.12.18 19:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Backfyre wrote:Bigg Gun wrote:Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go Sounds like EFT warrior numbers. How's that Domi do on time when you have 50km to the next gate? What is your "true" DPS when you account for waiting for those 120km targets to close range? How about pulling those drones back in when they get aggro under the new AI. How about swapping out the sentries when the frigs get too close or starting a mission where you are at point blank range on a dozen rats? All that said, Navy Domi may be better than a proteus. Tengu is not a bad choice either. If you're gonna retrain to minimize time, there are better choices.
How often do you really have 50km to the next gate though? I've run quite a few missions and those missions are few and far between.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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ColdCutz
Frigonometry
47
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm a drone user mainly, so I have fun zipping around in a microwarpdrive Proteus with 3 Modal Neutrons and 4 Ogre II's. Currently I can squeeze out a 453dps Angel tank while doing 579dps short range damage, but flying cap stable at 1600m/s mitigates the travel time between each battleship. The speed generally balances out the sigbloom, but then you just cut off the prop when you start to orbit anyway.
At full skills you can get the damage output up to around 681, or 781 with two Drone Damage II mods. |
Cage Man
Evil Guinea Pigs
42
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anabelle Martinez wrote:At the moment I fly the Proteus but using T2 blasters and having to fly around the mission field to get in range seems slow. I've got about equal skills for a Tengu but am unsure if it will be better ISK/Hour with a Tengu over a Proteus.
The only advantage of the Protues I can see at the moment is being able to grab full aggro in a room and not worry about it.
if you fit right.. not kookie cutter.. you don't have to worry about full room aggro in a tengu either... and it doesn't need to cost billions to make it work.. At work, so don't have my fit handy.. but mail me and I will send it through. Otherwise a mach works great, even with meta 4 guns. Most of the BS will do just fine in lvl4's if you fit and fly them right. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
518
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Backfyre wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Tengu was, and remains (with HAMs) the god of PVE. A bit overstated. It was good but by no means "godly". My Kronos would beat out a tengu. I ran many missions with a corp mate with him in a heavy missile tengu. I popped the rats notably faster than he did. If you're talking a HAM tengu, you're back to the OP's original issue of spending a lot of time closing range. Either tengu or proteus will do just fine. Just use a decent fit with plenty of range and gank.
Not that overstated, depending on your definition. The Tengu isn't the best at everything. But it is one of the ships that can do the most PVE tasks.
For example, your Kronos might be better in lvl 4 missions. How does it do with say, high sec exploration?(bad considering many hi sec sites are cruiser down). How about lowsec exploration? The tengu can be refit for scanning bonuses, cloaky travel, and has the align time to goof easier than your Kronos.
If I was doing strictly lvl 4 missions I'd probably pick the Kronos. If I could only fly one ship for PVE I'd pick a tengu. |
Norm Tempesta
The Konvergent League Sev3rance
11
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Posted - 2012.12.19 11:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
ColdCutz wrote:I'm a drone user mainly, so I have fun zipping around in a microwarpdrive Proteus with 3 Modal Neutrons and 4 Ogre II's. Currently I can squeeze out a 453dps Angel tank while doing 579dps short range damage, but flying cap stable at 1600m/s mitigates the travel time between each battleship. The speed generally balances out the sigbloom, but then you just cut off the prop when you start to orbit anyway.
At full skills you can get the damage output up to around 681, or 781 with two Drone Damage II mods.
Dang, i missed something there. I get well over 900 dps, cap stable with mwd, using med drones. Actually can get over 1000 with a 5% dmg implant.. |
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
208
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Posted - 2012.12.19 13:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Backfyre wrote:Bigg Gun wrote:Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go Sounds like EFT warrior numbers. How's that Domi do on time when you have 50km to the next gate? What is your "true" DPS when you account for waiting for those 120km targets to close range? How about pulling those drones back in when they get aggro under the new AI. How about swapping out the sentries when the frigs get too close or starting a mission where you are at point blank range on a dozen rats? All that said, Navy Domi may be better than a proteus. Tengu is not a bad choice either. If you're gonna retrain to minimize time, there are better choices.
eft shield tanking blaster domi + ogres is 1200+ (ish) dps
shieldtanking rail domi + sentries is still 1k+ dps 3 dda's really push the drone dps up. and sentries dont ahve travel time.
Smarter drone deployment makes most of your points irrelevant Smarter dronebay selection makes smart deployment possible. If you can take the time to adjust your resistance modules for tanking a mission, then you also have time to adjust your dronebay contents to suit too.
Target is 75km+ away --> Bouncer or Warden Target is 25-55km away --> Garde Target is under 25km --> Hobgoblin/Hammerhead/Ogre depending on target size - small target - Hobgoblin or Hammerhead - medium target - Hobgoblin or Hammerhead - large target - Hammerhead or Ogre |
Higgs Maken
The Metal Box Company
4
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Posted - 2012.12.19 16:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Backfyre wrote:Bigg Gun wrote:Considering a domi can easilly do 1000 and more dps I dont rhink proteus can be better. Tengu is the way to go Sounds like EFT warrior numbers. How's that Domi do on time when you have 50km to the next gate? What is your "true" DPS when you account for waiting for those 120km targets to close range? How about pulling those drones back in when they get aggro under the new AI. How about swapping out the sentries when the frigs get too close or starting a mission where you are at point blank range on a dozen rats? All that said, Navy Domi may be better than a proteus. Tengu is not a bad choice either. If you're gonna retrain to minimize time, there are better choices. eft shield tanking blaster domi + ogres is 1200+ (ish) dps shieldtanking rail domi + sentries is still 1k+ dps 3 dda's really push the drone dps up. and sentries dont ahve travel time. Smarter drone deployment makes most of your points irrelevant Smarter dronebay selection makes smart deployment possible. If you can take the time to adjust your resistance modules for tanking a mission, then you also have time to adjust your dronebay contents to suit too. Target is 75km+ away --> Bouncer or Warden Target is 25-55km away --> Garde Target is under 25km --> Hobgoblin/Hammerhead/Ogre depending on target size - small target - Hobgoblin or Hammerhead - medium target - Hobgoblin or Hammerhead - large target - Hammerhead or Ogre Did you read what you have quoted?
I don't fly a Domi, but I fly a Rattlesnake, I have to agree with Backfyre: flying 50Km in a 100++ms ship is boring. You've suggested using sentry, which means your Domi would be stationary, after killing all the rats, how does your 'Smarter' drone deployment solve the slow speed problem? A tengu would have flown towards gate while killing those rats, and would have warp off while you're scoping your sentry.
I only flown my Rattlesnake if I need those extra tank else Gila is my choice. I have solve the swapping sentry for light for point blank frigate by using ligh missile launcher instead of the usual heavy.
My bad for arguing with EFT warrior who have probably never flown a Domi.
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Lord Okinaba
51
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Posted - 2012.12.19 18:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
I used a sentry Domi in Gallente space for over a year and it worked really well. Most missions you can warp in, drop sentries and take out the whole room. Very rarely I found would you have to move around.
I've recently changed to a Mach, simply for a change of pace. It doesn't do missions any faster than my sentry Domi from what I can tell.
I think the ideal setup in Gal space is actually to use a sentry Domi for Serp missions, due to the damps, and use the Mach for everything else.
Edit: Example of a Serp mission below. No slow boating to any gates, although I do have a AB should the need arise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24CcjmYQmOs |
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
47
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Posted - 2012.12.19 20:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Norm Tempesta wrote:ColdCutz wrote:I'm a drone user mainly, so I have fun zipping around in a microwarpdrive Proteus with 3 Modal Neutrons and 4 Ogre II's. Currently I can squeeze out a 453dps Angel tank while doing 579dps short range damage, but flying cap stable at 1600m/s mitigates the travel time between each battleship. The speed generally balances out the sigbloom, but then you just cut off the prop when you start to orbit anyway.
At full skills you can get the damage output up to around 681, or 781 with two Drone Damage II mods. Dang, i missed something there. I get well over 900 dps, cap stable with mwd, using med drones. Actually can get over 1000 with a 5% dmg implant. The ship is a lot faster than ogres, so i just use guns and hammerheads. Yes that is true. I'll probably switch over to that when I max my blaster skills out. Bit of a shame that the drone sub doesn't even cut it for PVE. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
208
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Higgs Maken wrote: My bad for arguing with EFT warrior who have probably never flown a Domi.
Nope, your bad for making an incorrect assumption.
Whilst your busy reading that mission guide for resists to be fitted, its also more often than not giving you spawn data inc distances to spawn, and accel gate data this is information that you should be using to inform your drone loadout choices if your not ... well sucks to be you.
missions. they aint rocket science. they're too easy
the number of missions with 50km gate distances is insignificant also Afterburner, fit one they make you go faster.
so whiney ..........
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Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
12
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Posted - 2012.12.20 04:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:[quote=Backfyre][quote=Bigg Gun] eft shield tanking blaster domi + ogres is 1200+ (ish) dps
Quoting EFT drone DPS #'s is nowhere near realistic, considering EFT does not factor the slow as dirt flight time Ogres have.
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
1436
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Posted - 2012.12.20 11:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
^ tell that to the Domi that has you webbed at 10k
...right, it was over before you could finish the sentence
(nobody uses heavies for far away targets)
I tried to remove this sig. |
Higgs Maken
The Metal Box Company
4
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Posted - 2012.12.20 12:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Higgs Maken wrote: My bad for arguing with EFT warrior who have probably never flown a Domi.
Nope, your bad for making an incorrect assumption. Whilst your busy reading that mission guide for resists to be fitted, its also more often than not giving you spawn data inc distances to spawn, and accel gate data this is information that you should be using to inform your drone loadout choices if your not ... well sucks to be you. missions. they aint rocket science. they're too easy the number of missions with 50km gate distances is insignificant also Afterburner, fit one they make you go faster. so whiney ..........
Drone load out choice? If rats is at 120Km, what drone would you use, and how would you fit your domi? It will achieve that mystical 1200k dps, right? I beg you please share your fit, it's sounds like the perfect mission domi, long range, good tank, great speed, and most importantly excellently dps. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
209
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Posted - 2012.12.20 14:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
ffs .. are you some kind of illiterate uneducated buffoon ???
someone (possibly you) mentioned eft fits i posted an eft value (the blaster + ogre = 1200) then i posted a more reasonable REALWORLD set of numbers, straight underneath it learn to effin read
I have already posted the information about when to use your drones, you have even quoted that information so im guessing thats more reading comprehension failure on your behalf
if you want 1200dps from a domi its easy to get
T2 Large Blasters Ogre IIs Shield Tanking Fit DDA & MFS in the lows
but it's a HIGH dps fit, so its also a short range fit
can you get 1200 dps at 120km from a Domi... No, and you know you can't, your just being deliberately obtuse and argumentative. |
Cage Man
Evil Guinea Pigs
42
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Posted - 2012.12.20 18:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Higgs Maken wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:Higgs Maken wrote: My bad for arguing with EFT warrior who have probably never flown a Domi.
Nope, your bad for making an incorrect assumption. Whilst your busy reading that mission guide for resists to be fitted, its also more often than not giving you spawn data inc distances to spawn, and accel gate data this is information that you should be using to inform your drone loadout choices if your not ... well sucks to be you. missions. they aint rocket science. they're too easy the number of missions with 50km gate distances is insignificant also Afterburner, fit one they make you go faster. so whiney .......... Drone load out choice? If rats is at 120Km, what drone would you use, and how would you fit your domi? It will achieve that mystical 1200k dps, right? I beg you please share your fit, it's sounds like the perfect mission domi, long range, good tank, great speed, and most importantly excellently dps.
Fit micro jump drive.. and whallaaa.. you 20km away
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