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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
29
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Posted - 2012.12.18 15:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
As we all know, there's many modules where the meta 4 version is just flat out better than the tech 2 variant, and I'm wondering if there's ever been any talk of a tech 2 modules pass? I think it's time to address that many modules are imbalanced toward meta 4 being better, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why they were ever even implemented that way in the first place.
I'm a pretty good forum warrior, but I haven't found any Dev posts or blogs speaking to this point. Does anyone know any posts relevant to this? |
Maelle LuzArdiden
University of Caille Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.12.18 16:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nah, all they need to do is remove meta drops from hisec, and balance happens.
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
513
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Posted - 2012.12.18 16:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maelle LuzArdiden wrote:Nah, all they need to do is remove meta drops from hisec, and balance happens.
remove ALL the drops!
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
796
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Posted - 2012.12.18 17:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:I'm a pretty good forum warrior, but I haven't found any Dev posts or blogs speaking to this point. Does anyone know any posts relevant to this?
Anything official from CCP? No. It doesn't exist, in fact. We have no reason to believe that CCP thinks there's anything wrong with the situation (except in the case of armor plates, but they fixed those already).
Player posts? Yes. They're common enough that I tend to link past threads every damn time someone else feels the need to post on it. Like, say, here.
The bottom line remains the same: meta 4 are drops and their supply isn't certain. T2 has steady, predictable supply. And if nothing else, that makes T2 appealing. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
65
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Posted - 2012.12.18 18:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maelle LuzArdiden wrote:Nah, all they need to do is remove meta drops from hisec, and balance happens. Other suggestion is to replace drops with new components that can be used by indies to make meta items, while tweaking mods themselves so that no meta4 is strictly better than meta5.
No comments from devs so far, but at least they have done right thing to armor plates. |
Backfyre
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.12.18 19:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
IIRC, CCP has tweaked a number of modules over time to fix this balance. There are still plenty that need work. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
221
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Posted - 2012.12.18 22:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
What else is there besides armor plates? (which have been changed) |
bubble trout
Sky Fighters Talocan United
24
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Posted - 2012.12.18 23:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Scrams, painters, webs, ecm, nuets/nos, RSDs and TDs come to mind. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
798
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Posted - 2012.12.19 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
bubble trout wrote:Scrams, painters, webs, ecm, nuets/nos, RSDs and TDs come to mind.
It's worth noting that T2 plates were strictly worse at their job than meta 4 plates. These modules are all equally good at their job between T2 and meta 4, it's just that T2 has higher fitting and activation costs. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
18
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Posted - 2012.12.19 02:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
what do you mean by a "pass"? |
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
29
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Posted - 2012.12.19 02:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:what do you mean by a "pass"? CCP takes a look at the disparity between benefit/fitting cost, etc., and adjusts the tech 2 (meta 5) appropriately
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Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Reckless Faith
4
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Posted - 2012.12.19 03:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
this is also the case for some faction items. they are just awful. imperial navy armor plates? more cpu. more pg. about 5 more hps on the 800mm plate
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
65
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Posted - 2012.12.19 10:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:this is also the case for some faction items. they are just awful. imperial navy armor plates? more cpu. more pg. about 5 more hps on the 800mm plate Have faith, our grandchildren may even see the day when CCP will decide to sort all this mess. |
Higgs Maken
The Metal Box Company
4
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Posted - 2012.12.19 16:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:As we all know, there's many modules where the meta 4 version is just flat out better than the tech 2 variant, and I'm wondering if there's ever been any talk of a tech 2 modules pass? I think it's time to address that many modules are imbalanced toward meta 4 being better, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why they were ever even implemented that way in the first place.
I'm a pretty good forum warrior, but I haven't found any Dev posts or blogs speaking to this point. Does anyone know any posts relevant to this? Does it matter which is better? Shield_Power_Relay_II vs Beta_Reactor_Control:_Shield_Power_Relay_I. Meta 4 is the clear winner, same effect but with lower fitting cost, however look at Jita price for both. T2 price is about 600k and have a trading volume of 740 for today, whereas meta 4 retails for 130K and have a volume of 194. Perceive value is the key here, how many would check the difference between meta 4 and T2, and how many would have a default precetion that T2 is better? |
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
52
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Posted - 2012.12.19 17:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Higgs Maken wrote:Meta 4 is the clear winner, same effect but with lower fitting cost, however look at Jita price for both. T2 price is about 600k and have a trading volume of 740 for today, whereas meta 4 retails for 130K and have a volume of 194. Perceive value is the key here, how many would check the difference between meta 4 and T2, and how many would have a default precetion that T2 is better? The color orange looks good on my lossmails. Lighting a cyno to your heart... |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
7
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Posted - 2012.12.19 21:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:I'm a pretty good forum warrior, but I haven't found any Dev posts or blogs speaking to this point. Does anyone know any posts relevant to this? Anything official from CCP? No. It doesn't exist, in fact. We have no reason to believe that CCP thinks there's anything wrong with the situation (except in the case of armor plates, but they fixed those already). Player posts? Yes. They're common enough that I tend to link past threads every damn time someone else feels the need to post on it. Like, say, here. The bottom line remains the same: meta 4 are drops and their supply isn't certain. T2 has steady, predictable supply. And if nothing else, that makes T2 appealing.
Actually, yes there is stuff official from CCP, and we DO have evidence that they care, despite what some uninformed individuals may think. Armor plates are a prime example, they were semi-recently buffed to give more armor than the meta 4 variation. It was also mentioned during one of the talks that more similar changes are 'down the pipe.' |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
7
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Posted - 2012.12.19 21:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Higgs Maken wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:As we all know, there's many modules where the meta 4 version is just flat out better than the tech 2 variant, and I'm wondering if there's ever been any talk of a tech 2 modules pass? I think it's time to address that many modules are imbalanced toward meta 4 being better, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why they were ever even implemented that way in the first place.
I'm a pretty good forum warrior, but I haven't found any Dev posts or blogs speaking to this point. Does anyone know any posts relevant to this? Does it matter which is better? Shield_Power_Relay_II vs Beta_Reactor_Control:_Shield_Power_Relay_I. Meta 4 is the clear winner, same effect but with lower fitting cost, however look at Jita price for both. T2 price is about 600k and have a trading volume of 740 for today, whereas meta 4 retails for 130K and have a volume of 194. Perceive value is the key here, how many would check the difference between meta 4 and T2, and how many would have a default precetion that T2 is better?
The effect isn't actually the same. For example, Beta reactor control (meta 4) cap power relays have less of a penalty than their t2 equivelant, and this is the same for some other modules, where the meta 4 is better in fitting, and actual bonus/penalty than t2 |
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare Reckless Faith
5
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Posted - 2012.12.20 04:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
meta 4 1mn microwarp drives are better too. same speed lil better cap use. much much cheaper
but i have faith ccp will tweak it. it shouldnt be to hard of a task compared to new ships or rebalanced ships |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
801
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Posted - 2012.12.20 04:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Anything official from CCP? No. It doesn't exist, in fact. We have no reason to believe that CCP thinks there's anything wrong with the situation (except in the case of armor plates, but they fixed those already). Player posts? Yes. They're common enough that I tend to link past threads every damn time someone else feels the need to post on it. Like, say, here. The bottom line remains the same: meta 4 are drops and their supply isn't certain. T2 has steady, predictable supply. And if nothing else, that makes T2 appealing. Actually, yes there is stuff official from CCP, and we DO have evidence that they care, despite what some uninformed individuals may think. Armor plates are a prime example, they were semi-recently buffed to give more armor than the meta 4 variation. It was also mentioned during one of the talks that more similar changes are 'down the pipe.'
Other than plates, which you'll see on closer reading that I mentioned, do you have any evidence for any of these assertions? |
Veronica Kerrigan
Hand Of Midas My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
40
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Posted - 2012.12.21 03:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
mining laser upgrades come to mind for someone who has been in an industrial corp for almost 2 years. |
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