Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Forman Keeper
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 05:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.eveonline.com/retribution/upgraded-npc-ai/
The overview says the player lost 2 drones in 9 level 4 missions. In a Domi fit with 700-800 drone dps and 5 guns shooting all the time trying to keep aggro, i lost 5 drones on a level 3 mission. (5 Ogres) . I have 3.9mil SP in drones.
What am i doing wrong? I'm micromanaging and paying 100% attention and i can seem to figure out how to keep my drones alive. For now the only plausible method is to mass produce ogres or buy a ton of them and reload them constantly like ammo. The problem is that t2 drones are useless as they make missioning a loss and not a profit.
As it stands, all the t2 drones skills i have are 100% useless to me.
ANY advice on how to remedy this issue on my part is welcomed, i really want to be an effective mission runner, especially when i move onto level 4 missions, i need my drones to stay alive in order to finish the mission in a fast and effective manner.
Some say to bring drones in and send them back out, that might work if drones didn't operate so far away in a drone boat setup. And bringing them in and sending them out 30 times in a mission kills the dps of the drone boat. Secondly, bringing them in and sending them out, regardless of how long i shoot at them in between, the ships just quickly target and attack them, even if there 30-60km away.
again, i'm not trying to rant, any advice is accepted, i'm not asking CCP to change anything, i realize they want the game to be a certain way in this case, and i'm not even gonna try to get something changed, i want to adapt my playing style to what CCP wants me to do. (its their IP after all). All MMOs go this route and its normal, so no ranting as answers either please *smiley Face*
Anyone who has used drones effectively against sleeps is especially appreciated. |
decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 06:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well first off sentry's are a must, i see that you can use 5 ogres which means you can fit and use 5 sentry's, this will avoid the trouble of having your drones so far away.
second, npcs really hate light drones, use heavy drones or meds to kill scrammers.
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
18
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 06:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
ogres are slow. I won't release mediums if there are cruisers on the field. ...cuz they're kinda slow, too.
I'm ok with thinking the situation can't be helped--swarms of frigs means I'm going to lose some light drones. |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
174
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 07:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Use a Tengu |
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 08:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
decaneos wrote:Well first off sentry's are a must, i see that you can use 5 ogres which means you can fit and use 5 sentry's, this will avoid the trouble of having your drones so far away.
second, npcs really hate light drones, use heavy drones or meds to kill scrammers.
If he can use ogres doesnt mean he could use sentrys. They have different skill prequisites. Ogre requires heavy drone operation while sentrys require sentry drone operation and drone sharpshooting.
|
Carek Talen
Another Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 10:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
I did a couple of lvl 3 without losses using a target painter, lights and mediums. Still the frigate npc switched targets several times and did some damage. The mobile drones are now a short range weapon, if you need to kill something far from recovery distance use sentries. Lvl 4 are more drone friendly than low levels, big rats look for big targets. |
Reverend Skarekrow
Another Bad Deal LTD.
1
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 12:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Forman Keeper wrote:http://www.eveonline.com/retribution/upgraded-npc-ai/
The overview says the player lost 2 drones in 9 level 4 missions. In a Domi fit with 700-800 drone dps and 5 guns shooting all the time trying to keep aggro, i lost 5 drones on a level 3 mission. (5 Ogres) . I have 3.9mil SP in drones.
What am i doing wrong? I'm micromanaging and paying 100% attention and i can seem to figure out how to keep my drones alive. For now the only plausible method is to mass produce ogres or buy a ton of them and reload them constantly like ammo. The problem is that t2 drones are useless as they make missioning a loss and not a profit.
As it stands, all the t2 drones skills i have are 100% useless to me.
ANY advice on how to remedy this issue on my part is welcomed, i really want to be an effective mission runner, especially when i move onto level 4 missions, i need my drones to stay alive in order to finish the mission in a fast and effective manner.
Some say to bring drones in and send them back out, that might work if drones didn't operate so far away in a drone boat setup. And bringing them in and sending them out 30 times in a mission kills the dps of the drone boat. Secondly, bringing them in and sending them out, regardless of how long i shoot at them in between, the ships just quickly target and attack them, even if there 30-60km away.
again, i'm not trying to rant, any advice is accepted, i'm not asking CCP to change anything, i realize they want the game to be a certain way in this case, and i'm not even gonna try to get something changed, i want to adapt my playing style to what CCP wants me to do. (its their IP after all). All MMOs go this route and its normal, so no ranting as answers either please *smiley Face*
Anyone who has used drones effectively against sleeps is especially appreciated.
With the drone changes from this mornings patch, use sentries to take any BS/BC rats off the field and release heavies. With decent drone skills and an ODTL they kill frigs and cruisers just fine.
CCP in their infinite wisdom decided that drones should be primary for the very ship classes they are designed to deal with.
Smart move and one step close to annoying folks into leaving. I guess changes no one asked for and no one with half a brain wanted are all they are putting on the plate these days.
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1179
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 19:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
With my Rattlesnake:
0 km to 15 km: Ogre II 15 KM to 50 km; Garde II over 50 km: Bouncer II
Ogre II can easily kill frigates too, though Hobgoblin II are faster.
I rep drones as necessary, hence I don't want Ogre II too far away (at 1km / sec, they are about 5 sec from safety). I keep all drones target-locked (10 targets), and usually leave something to NOS. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1254
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 19:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think what you are doing wrong is waiting between pulling them in and re-launching them. You only want to wait a few seconds, just long enough for the NPCs to target you.
The NPCs are on a timer. Every few minutes they re-evaluate who to shoot, and want to switch. If there is no one to switch to the remain primed, ready to switch at the first sign of a new target. So if you pull in your drones, wait a few minutes, then re-launch, the primed NPCs will switch to them immediately.
So don't wait.
Other things you can do: Use a remote repper on your drones. The NPCs hate those who use logistics. Use a web on the NPCs. They hate that too. Ive lost a total of 5 drones since the expansion in over a dozen missions. All my losses were the first couple of days until I adjusted. Also all were light drones lost to mercenaries. The mercs tend to web the drone down and pop it while it is trying to return to me. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Caldari Citizen20121206
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 19:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think you should not wait until one of the npc's should agro your drones. You should pull them in from time to time. But the best way is to not use drone ships still. |
|
Akuma Tsukai
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Use sentries and only sentries. Everything else is reserved exclusively for killing 5 km orbit frigs if you have no other means to do it (which you should). TL:DR CCP ****** every drone but sentries in PVE. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
81
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 01:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:I think you should not wait until one of the npc's should agro your drones. You should pull them in from time to time. But the best way is to not use drone ships still.
Thats stupid. A dominix does not struggle with drone aggro. Sentries attract very little aggro, and dominix light drones will often have 50% more hps, 50% more damage from the hull, and 40% more damage from DDAs fitted to the ship, and a dominix pilot will typically just snipe the frigates first with the sentries anyway. I hardly ever actually put lights on the field.
The "problem" is 75m3 bay battleships that are reliant on drones to kill frigates, because the largest missiles do really poor damage to frigates under all circumstances and cannot snipe them like a turret or a sentry. |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 09:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au0Fcnjrgis
Right now, I would call this the best way. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
60
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 11:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
For someone without pirate-battleship or Marauder money, it's quite possible that the best solution might be to put a brick-tank Drake armed with RLMs on a battleship's wing. Obviously that's not a solution for someone running a single account, though. |
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 14:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Someone has already stated this but Ill do it again. Lower lvl missions are much harder on drones that lvl 4s (mostly close orbit in lvl 3s)
I use a Rattlesnake for 4s and Ive yet to encounter a situation it cant handle. I believe u can do the same with a domi.
I use: 5 x Garde II 5 x Warden/bouncer/curator II (depends on mission) 5 x Light 5 x Heavy
With a Domi I'd go like this:
5 x Garde II 5 x Warden/bouncer/curator II (depends on mission) 5+ x Light 5+ x Medium
Unlike some have said, I say never use heavies on frigates. Sometimes u need to get them of your back asap and heavies aint good for that. The only time u should use heavies is when u have close orbiting BSs (up to 6ish km) and when u are ready to take them on, theres NEVER enough DPS towards u, so 5 mediums for that should be more that enough (in a Domi perspective ofc).
Use Garde up to 45, beyond that use one of the other types (mission specific). If some frigs slip my long range sentries I usually dont take Gardes out to deal with it, when that happens I kill what I can until they are orbiting me. Then paint one and send lights on the rest. This way, u will rarely get any drone aggro.
EDIT: Also, more often than not, I forget to send gun/missile DPS. Still no aggro issues |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
137
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 20:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Send an in game petition to reimburse your drone skill points and choose some gunnery skills. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
615
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 20:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
As others have said, heavies are really only viable right now as close range drones. They get aggro from everything. There is generally a 2 min timer between AI switches, but the missions do seem to alter that, at least from my own testing.
|
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 23:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Some are saying IVs are easier on drones than 3's but V's are about ridiculous. Theres only a few seconds to pull in sentries, just dont even use mobile ones beyond 7km. Fighters get blapped as well. Reps and tp's dont work there. When youre doing V's its especially critical to get those scramblers down as on top of all the drone/ fighter micromanagement you need to dscan every couple seconds.
In my own case this AI reorganization has rendered most of my methods useless adding another month of training to be able to adapt . Its ok though there was nothing else i was really wanting to train besides new weapons systems for something i had no issue doing 2 weeks ago.
The dominix vid using MJD and wardens was pretty impressive. Though he never had his entire overview completly full of npcs to scroll through. If i were doing level 4's or working my way towards them with domi like OP this looks a good way to go. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
238
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 00:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
So far, iv replaced the seldom used medium drones, with 10 small drones of difrent flavors, I launch the drones with desired damage type, pull then back when agro, launch next set of fresh small drones.
their pretty fast and kinda help with tank now.
Thats where im at with drones atm.
-- Once more players discover different tactics that don't involve Sentry drones, pertaining to medium and heavy drones, then I will begin using my Rattle pilot, for now its the pally, with 15 small drones. |
decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 08:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nad'x Hapax wrote: Unlike some have said, I say never use heavies on frigates. Sometimes u need to get them of your back asap and heavies aint good for that. The only time u should use heavies is when u have close orbiting BSs (up to 6ish km) and when u are ready to take them on, theres NEVER enough DPS towards u, so 5 mediums for that should be more that enough (in a Domi perspective ofc).
Ive noticed myself that my heavys tend to kill frigs in the same time if not quicker that lights for a couple of reasons, first of, bigger range, this means as they fly to the frig with low transverse rate most of the time they pop the frig before they even get to it. Second, instead of orbiting like mad bugs round a flame, they sit behind the target and again have low transverse rate meaing there lack of tracking is not a issue. Finally, the firgs wont switch to attack the heavy drones that i send after it unlike the light drones so you kill the frigs quicker cause your drones aint dead.
Yes i use a couple of omnis but then i use a navy domi so why not. |
|
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
238
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 22:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
decaneos wrote:Nad'x Hapax wrote: Unlike some have said, I say never use heavies on frigates. Sometimes u need to get them of your back asap and heavies aint good for that. The only time u should use heavies is when u have close orbiting BSs (up to 6ish km) and when u are ready to take them on, theres NEVER enough DPS towards u, so 5 mediums for that should be more that enough (in a Domi perspective ofc).
Ive noticed myself that my heavys tend to kill frigs in the same time if not quicker that lights for a couple of reasons, first of, bigger range, this means as they fly to the frig with low transverse rate most of the time they pop the frig before they even get to it. Second, instead of orbiting like mad bugs round a flame, they sit behind the target and again have low transverse rate meaing there lack of tracking is not a issue. Finally, the firgs wont switch to attack the heavy drones that i send after it unlike the light drones so you kill the frigs quicker cause your drones aint dead. Yes i use a couple of omnis but then i use a navy domi so why not.
Which ones are you using? Mini large drones by chance? |
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 23:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
decaneos wrote:Nad'x Hapax wrote: Unlike some have said, I say never use heavies on frigates. Sometimes u need to get them of your back asap and heavies aint good for that. The only time u should use heavies is when u have close orbiting BSs (up to 6ish km) and when u are ready to take them on, theres NEVER enough DPS towards u, so 5 mediums for that should be more that enough (in a Domi perspective ofc).
Ive noticed myself that my heavys tend to kill frigs in the same time if not quicker that lights for a couple of reasons, first of, bigger range, this means as they fly to the frig with low transverse rate most of the time they pop the frig before they even get to it. Second, instead of orbiting like mad bugs round a flame, they sit behind the target and again have low transverse rate meaing there lack of tracking is not a issue. Finally, the firgs wont switch to attack the heavy drones that i send after it unlike the light drones so you kill the frigs quicker cause your drones aint dead. Yes i use a couple of omnis but then i use a navy domi so why not.
Yeah Im tempted to agree but that means that you are limited to engage frigates at 3kish km. If u have a swarm of frigates coming your way at <15km, Gardes will have a hard time with them. Sure, best case scenario they are apon u in 10s but I still like the option. Long time ago now but there has been occasions that I saved my ship from certain doom by seconds so if I can engage potential scrams early Im happy. Also, in those cases a TP is the difference between dead drones and deadly drones.
Besides, Ive tried Gardes at 3-5km orbiting Angels BSs a lot since my last post and they work like charm thus making heavies a big nono for me |
decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 14:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:decaneos wrote:Nad'x Hapax wrote: Unlike some have said, I say never use heavies on frigates. Sometimes u need to get them of your back asap and heavies aint good for that. The only time u should use heavies is when u have close orbiting BSs (up to 6ish km) and when u are ready to take them on, theres NEVER enough DPS towards u, so 5 mediums for that should be more that enough (in a Domi perspective ofc).
Ive noticed myself that my heavys tend to kill frigs in the same time if not quicker that lights for a couple of reasons, first of, bigger range, this means as they fly to the frig with low transverse rate most of the time they pop the frig before they even get to it. Second, instead of orbiting like mad bugs round a flame, they sit behind the target and again have low transverse rate meaing there lack of tracking is not a issue. Finally, the firgs wont switch to attack the heavy drones that i send after it unlike the light drones so you kill the frigs quicker cause your drones aint dead. Yes i use a couple of omnis but then i use a navy domi so why not. Which ones are you using? Mini large drones by chance?
HEAVY drones, im sure i mentioned that, heres a example 14:15:10Combat1125 to Arch Gistii Hijacker - Berserker II - Wrecks
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |