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Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
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Posted - 2012.12.20 01:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Am i missing some thing here are doing some thing wrong ??
I searched to find a free production line to do some material research and blueprint copying .Could not find anything sooner than 18 days wait for material research and 13 days for copying
I dont mind the four days wait to learn some new skills,
But really 18 days just to do some thing new in the game? In 18 days i will have forgotten all about it .I wanted to explore this side of the game but as a new player i dont want to have to wait 18 days just to some thing new in a game |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4579
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Someone else is using the production line... you need to be a man and start your own pos "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Merouk Baas
106
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wait times depend on how busy the station is; all the lab/production slots are being used by other players.
Try to find another, less busy station; move away from the trading hub.
This is why people deploy their own research POS towers / stations. It's a lot of work to do so, and to maintain it, but there's no waiting once it's up and running. |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
i serched the whole region ,search was a 12 jump radius .Most of my trade skills are level 3 at the moment I just want to be clear is this the average wait for material research jobs ? unless you have your own pos |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4580
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 02:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:i serched the whole region ,search was a 12 jump radius .Most of my trade skills are level 3 at the moment I just want to be clear is this the average wait for material research jobs ?
The wait to begin the job is the same regardless of skill.... someone else is using the line so you have to get in line "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1617
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
It wasn't 30 days? You lucky... The Drake is a Lie |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
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Posted - 2012.12.20 02:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
okay i have got my answer these, waiting times are the standard Maybe in one month i can build some thing only to discover it cost more to build than its worth |
Merouk Baas
107
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well, no, manufacture slots are quite available almost everywhere. You can make stuff from unresearched blueprints immediately.
If you're trying to improve the blueprint (ME research), all the lab slots are likely going to be taken, but you may get lucky. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4581
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 03:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:okay i have got my answer these, waiting times are the standard Maybe in one month i can build some thing only to discover it cost more to build than its worth
Just join a corp that has a pos to do it "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:okay i have got my answer these, waiting times are the standard Maybe in one month i can build some thing only to discover it cost more to build than its worth Just join a corp that has a pos to do it
Will join a corp in time once i have gone as far as i can on my own , its the learning and finding out things for my self part that i enjoy at the moment , if i joined a corp and it was all handed to me on a plate then i would get bored.Thats why this QandA section and the helpfull forum members are great for players like myself
I just get a bit frustrated with some of the waiting times and spat my dummy when i seen a 18 day queue , never been good with queues |
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Merouk Baas
108
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
From the beginning stations had a limited number of slots, and CCP doubled and doubled and doubled them, but like storage space it gets used up as soon as it's made available. Lab slots are scarce because you need Invention in order to create Tech 2 blueprint copies to make Tech 2 items, and people are using the labs for that, not just for materials research and copying.
As you can see, the cost of Tech 2 items is high, too, compared to Tech 1.
As far as POSes, a POS can only be deployed by a corporation, so if you want that and still want to do it solo, you'll have to make your own corporation. To place them in high-sec requires very high standings with the local Empire, but because there's a 7-day delay until standings are recalculated, some people offer deployment services.
Some corps also offer research slot rental. You join, do your research with no wait at their labs, and then leave, for a fee (probably expensive). |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
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Posted - 2012.12.20 04:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:From the beginning stations had a limited number of slots, and CCP doubled and doubled and doubled them, but like storage space it gets used up as soon as it's made available. Lab slots are scarce because you need Invention in order to create Tech 2 blueprint copies to make Tech 2 items, and people are using the labs for that, not just for materials research and copying.
As you can see, the cost of Tech 2 items is high, too, compared to Tech 1.
As far as POSes, a POS can only be deployed by a corporation, so if you want that and still want to do it solo, you'll have to make your own corporation. To place them in high-sec requires very high standings with the local Empire, but because there's a 7-day delay until standings are recalculated, some people offer deployment services.
Some corps also offer research slot rental. You join, do your research with no wait at their labs, and then leave, for a fee (probably expensive).
thanks for the information |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2259
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Posted - 2012.12.20 06:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Will join a corp in time once i have gone as far as i can on my own GǪ
Ouch. You're going to be reinventing a lot of wheels. Have you read the manufacturing page of the Evelopedia and its related materials? Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
627
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 08:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Will join a corp in time once i have gone as far as i can on my own GǪ Ouch. You're going to be reinventing a lot of wheels. Have you read the manufacturing page of the Evelopedia and its related materials? You should be able to predict what your profit will be, including cost of acquiring and researching blueprints, cost of NPC assembly lines, etc: there should be no surprises as to whether an article was profitable to produce, except for unexpected fluctuations in the market.
Tip when reinventing wheels, they are round.
Seriously, ME and copy in high sec stations will always have huge queues.
You have 3 basic options:
1. Low sec station but that means shipping the BP in and out of lowsec. 2. Make your own POS. 3. JOIN A CORP.
Joining a corp that is new player friendly doesn't mean all is handed to you on a silver plate. It means that they will help when needed or when you ask. Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
35
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Posted - 2012.12.20 08:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
dont research blueprints unless you have access to POS,either your own or your corp.
buy already researched blueprints,you will pay 10x more for original but its worth it
or hop into cloaking ship and go to lowsec,if you can ask couple of friends to escort you,its should be pretty safe |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1179
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 08:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you look around, you can find 9 day queues (yes, they are queues, so you can start a job using any slot already in use). You can also find smaller queues in lowsec stations. NPC nulsec stations often don't have any wait time, but it can be a hazardous trip getting to one (I used to travel to Curse in a Covert Ops).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2333831#post2333831 |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
29
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Posted - 2012.12.20 10:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote: Lab slots are scarce because you need Invention in order to create Tech 2 blueprint copies to make Tech 2 items, and people are using the labs for that, not just for materials research and copying.
People setting up invention jobs don't reduce the available ME or copy lines. They're distinct sets of lines. Station near me, for example, has 20 ME lines (lowest wait 53 days), 20 PE lines (available now), 10 copy lines (lowest wait 9 days), 20 invention lines (available now)
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Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
324
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Posted - 2012.12.20 10:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:okay i have got my answer these, waiting times are the standard Maybe in one month i can build some thing only to discover it cost more to build than its worth Just join a corp that has a pos to do it Will join a corp in time once i have gone as far as i can on my own , its the learning and finding out things for my self part that i enjoy at the moment , if i joined a corp and it was all handed to me on a plate then i would get bored.Thats why this QandA section and the helpfull forum members are great for players like myself I just get a bit frustrated with some of the waiting times and spat my dummy when i seen a 18 day queue , never been good with queues
It's intentional, it's CCP's way of saying "go add to the sandbox instead of making use of NPC services" :)
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything. |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
627
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 11:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:If you look around, you can find 9 day queues (yes, they are queues, so you can start a job using any slot already in use). You can also find smaller queues in lowsec stations. NPC nulsec stations often don't have any wait time, but it can be a hazardous trip getting to one (I used to travel to Curse in a Covert Ops). Several people offer free research (like myself, Lady Patricia, etc.), and as well there are research alliances (like New Eden Research) that you can join (with an alt) and pay by the hour of research. Plus you can buy already researched BPO / BPC from contracts, and there is an in-game BPO / BPC trade chat channel.
I can be one of the etc. Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
283
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Posted - 2012.12.20 12:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Someone else is using the production line... you need to be a man and start your own pos
Or just make friends with someone who already has one. That's what we did, so I can verify firsthand that this is quite possible. EvE Forum Bingo |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
860
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Merouk Baas wrote:From the beginning stations had a limited number of slots, and CCP doubled and doubled and doubled them, but like storage space it gets used up as soon as it's made available. Lab slots are scarce because you need Invention in order to create Tech 2 blueprint copies to make Tech 2 items, and people are using the labs for that, not just for materials research and copying.
As you can see, the cost of Tech 2 items is high, too, compared to Tech 1.
As far as POSes, a POS can only be deployed by a corporation, so if you want that and still want to do it solo, you'll have to make your own corporation. To place them in high-sec requires very high standings with the local Empire, but because there's a 7-day delay until standings are recalculated, some people offer deployment services.
Some corps also offer research slot rental. You join, do your research with no wait at their labs, and then leave, for a fee (probably expensive). thanks for the information
Pity it's entirely incorrect.
Each slot type is distinct and discrete.
And if you look around, you'll find that there are invention slots all over the place.
Mostly because serious manufacturers do everything in a POS of their own. Copy slots are the ones that are rare. A single character can run through 10 copies an hour (ish) FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
627
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 14:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Merouk Baas wrote:From the beginning stations had a limited number of slots, and CCP doubled and doubled and doubled them, but like storage space it gets used up as soon as it's made available. Lab slots are scarce because you need Invention in order to create Tech 2 blueprint copies to make Tech 2 items, and people are using the labs for that, not just for materials research and copying.
As you can see, the cost of Tech 2 items is high, too, compared to Tech 1.
As far as POSes, a POS can only be deployed by a corporation, so if you want that and still want to do it solo, you'll have to make your own corporation. To place them in high-sec requires very high standings with the local Empire, but because there's a 7-day delay until standings are recalculated, some people offer deployment services.
Some corps also offer research slot rental. You join, do your research with no wait at their labs, and then leave, for a fee (probably expensive). thanks for the information Pity it's entirely incorrect. Each slot type is distinct and discrete. And if you look around, you'll find that there are invention slots all over the place. Mostly because serious manufacturers do everything in a POS of their own. Copy slots are the ones that are rare. A single character can run through 10 copies an hour (ish)
This.
A ME job won't make invention slots go into queue. A PE job won't make ME slots go into queue.
Each single type of industry has it's own slots they use, some are more likely to be queued then others cause some are more profitable then others.
Most important thing to make a blueprint better (as in less expensive to build the item) is the ME waste. Lowering waste means less minerals are required, means less money needs to be invested in minerals.
Copies slots are likely taken too. This is cause if you place BPO into manufacture it's "gone" until the job finishes. Which means you can't research it at the same time or build another batch of the item. Making copies and then use them for production means your original is always available for research.
Another thing is that shipping a high-end into null-sec is risky. Why risk that it gets blown up while in transport or even be locked out if you get kicked out of the space without having the time to evac your stuff, you can just copy in high-sec. Leave the original there and take the copies you need into null. If those get destroyed/locked out, too bad, time to make new copies.
Last thing people use copies for is the T2 invention. It requires a T1 blueprint (either original or copy). But as the invention job destroys the T1 blueprints using originals is quite expensive over time.
Most invention jobs are done at a POS for 1 single reason. Invention is chance based and with a POS lab you get a higher base chance which means you are more likely to roll the dice to success and get a T2 BPC. Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
29
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Posted - 2012.12.20 15:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Last thing people use copies for is the T2 invention. It requires a T1 blueprint (either original or copy). But as the invention job destroys the T1 blueprints using originals is quite expensive over time.
Invention requires BPCs only, not originals. Try to invent of a BPO and you get an error message
Quote:You cannot start an invention job with an original Blueprint. You must use a Blueprint Copy for this job.
Quote:Most invention jobs are done at a POS for 1 single reason. Invention is chance based and with a POS lab you get a higher base chance which means you are more likely to roll the dice to success and get a T2 BPC.
POS labs give a time bonus, not a success bonus. The factors that affect invention success are the type of item (defines the base chance), the racial encryption skill level, the data core skill levels, whether or not a T1 item is used and decryptors (if any)
A Mobile or advanced mobile lab has a 0.5 time bonus over a public lab.
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Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
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Posted - 2012.12.20 16:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thanks for all the feedback
So other players are making money out of these long waiting times to research a blueprint ?
As i said at the start i just think 18 days to do some thing as simple as this is way to long .The cost of buying a researched blueprint are hiring a private pos production line would most likely take up any profits i could have made.Sure it will work fine for large runs but for the scale of production a new player can do i doubt its worth the cost.
The more i learn about industry and the markets the more i start to think its all stacked against new players.I am Not looking to pay my subs with isk made in game just wanted to explore it and invest the profits in ships etc .Just seems like every thing is overpriced and profit margins are tiny compared to the amount of time you have to invest.And the fact that so many blue prints are out of the reach of new players .
People say its a sandbox and a player driven economy but the control availability distribution of blueprints seems to be what its all about to me at the moment. Those who have and those who have not .Maybe in time my thoughts will change but thats were i am at the moment with eve ) |
RomeStar
Astra Research
66
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 16:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:Wait times depend on how busy the station is; all the lab/production slots are being used by other players.
Try to find another, less busy station; move away from the trading hub.
This is why people deploy their own research POS towers / stations. It's a lot of work to do so, and to maintain it, but there's no waiting once it's up and running.
Dont listen to him setting up and maintaining your own small pos is easy. Getting the standings to anchor it in a .5 or higher system is the b!tch. In the long run it will pay off as I am just now noticing. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
RomeStar
Astra Research
66
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Posted - 2012.12.20 16:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Thanks for all the feedback
So other players are making money out of these long waiting times to research a blueprint ?
As i said at the start i just think 18 days to do some thing as simple as this is way to long .The cost of buying a researched blueprint are hiring a private pos production line would most likely take up any profits i could have made.Sure it will work fine for large runs but for the scale of production a new player can do i doubt its worth the cost.
The more i learn about industry and the markets the more i start to think its all stacked against new players.I am Not looking to pay my subs with isk made in game just wanted to explore it and invest the profits in ships etc .Just seems like every thing is overpriced and profit margins are tiny compared to the amount of time you have to invest.And the fact that so many blue prints are out of the reach of new players .
People say its a sandbox and a player driven economy but the control availability distribution of blueprints seems to be what its all about to me at the moment. Those who have and those who have not .Maybe in time my thoughts will change but thats were i am at the moment with eve )
You have the wrong mindset to be an Indy. Mcdonalds didnt sell 1 million hamburgers its first day it opened did it.? No Indy takes time and with time comes profits. It takes a dedicated skill plan also inorder to maximize your production costs and refine rates. Unfortunately a Indy skill plan does not hlep in pvp or pve so that is why alot of players create alts for Indy or vice versa. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 16:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Thanks for all the feedback
So other players are making money out of these long waiting times to research a blueprint ?
As i said at the start i just think 18 days to do some thing as simple as this is way to long .The cost of buying a researched blueprint are hiring a private pos production line would most likely take up any profits i could have made.Sure it will work fine for large runs but for the scale of production a new player can do i doubt its worth the cost.
The more i learn about industry and the markets the more i start to think its all stacked against new players.I am Not looking to pay my subs with isk made in game just wanted to explore it and invest the profits in ships etc .Just seems like every thing is overpriced and profit margins are tiny compared to the amount of time you have to invest.And the fact that so many blue prints are out of the reach of new players .
People say its a sandbox and a player driven economy but the control availability distribution of blueprints seems to be what its all about to me at the moment. Those who have and those who have not .Maybe in time my thoughts will change but thats were i am at the moment with eve ) You have the wrong mindset to be an Indy. Mcdonalds didnt sell 1 million hamburgers its first day it opened did it.? No Indy takes time and with time comes profits. It takes a dedicated skill plan also inorder to maximize your production costs and refine rates. Unfortunately a Indy skill plan does not hlep in pvp or pve so that is why alot of players create alts for Indy or vice versa.
iI agree maybe i dont have the right mind set for it .But 3 weeks to do some thing as simple as this in game while other make profit from people being forced to wait 3 weeks is a rip off and just poor game design .I pay my subs and i cant use the tools for 3 weeks is a joke )) |
J'Poll
Kings of the Underground Side Effect.
628
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 16:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:RomeStar wrote:Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:Thanks for all the feedback
So other players are making money out of these long waiting times to research a blueprint ?
As i said at the start i just think 18 days to do some thing as simple as this is way to long .The cost of buying a researched blueprint are hiring a private pos production line would most likely take up any profits i could have made.Sure it will work fine for large runs but for the scale of production a new player can do i doubt its worth the cost.
The more i learn about industry and the markets the more i start to think its all stacked against new players.I am Not looking to pay my subs with isk made in game just wanted to explore it and invest the profits in ships etc .Just seems like every thing is overpriced and profit margins are tiny compared to the amount of time you have to invest.And the fact that so many blue prints are out of the reach of new players .
People say its a sandbox and a player driven economy but the control availability distribution of blueprints seems to be what its all about to me at the moment. Those who have and those who have not .Maybe in time my thoughts will change but thats were i am at the moment with eve ) You have the wrong mindset to be an Indy. Mcdonalds didnt sell 1 million hamburgers its first day it opened did it.? No Indy takes time and with time comes profits. It takes a dedicated skill plan also inorder to maximize your production costs and refine rates. Unfortunately a Indy skill plan does not hlep in pvp or pve so that is why alot of players create alts for Indy or vice versa. iI agree maybe i dont have the right mind set for it .But 3 weeks to do some thing as simple as this in game while other make profit from people being forced to wait 3 weeks is a rip off and just poor game design .I pay my subs and i cant use the tools for 3 weeks is a joke ))
1.) Then don't put the job in the queue. EVE is what YOU make of it and reacts to YOUR decisions.
2.) Nobody is making profit of those queues. It's just that other people are currently researching using that production line (and others are already waiting in that queue).
3.) As mentioned, the way to get rid of those queues is to get access to a research POS (either make your own corp and deploy one once you have the standings in high-sec, get into a corp that already has their research POS up and running or look for services that grant you access - usually at a cost). Old look Corporation recruitment thread Corporation Website |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
31
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 17:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
I started out in manufacturing by buying cheap BPCs on contract (after doing enough research to ensure they were cheap and were profitable) and manufacturing from those. If I was happy with the profit and movement of the item, I bought a BPO, tossed it into a public slot to research and then carried on manufacturing from the BPCs while it researched.
If I may ask, what items were you looking to make? |
Davith en Divalone
Aegis Coalition Logistics The Paganism Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.12.20 17:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote: iI agree maybe i dont have the right mind set for it .But 3 weeks to do some thing as simple as this in game while other make profit from people being forced to wait 3 weeks is a rip off and just poor game design .I pay my subs and i cant use the tools for 3 weeks is a joke ))
Eve isn't an instant gratification game, it even says so in the intro video, "If you are patient, you can amass the wealth of nations."
But it's usually the case that what you can do three weeks from now is what you can do now, albeit with less skill and profit. There's plenty of items in the world you can build and profit from without doing material research. There's even helpful web-based tools that will estimate material cost, grab the market price from eve-central, and tell you how much profit you stand to make on an item.
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