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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3391
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Posted - 2013.01.31 18:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Brujo Loco wrote:you do know BSG has a healthy dosage of Mormonism dont you? The New series tried to veer a bit away from it, but maintaned a good chunk.
First time I've heard that and I'm not seeing it. Care to elaborate ?
Brujo Loco wrote:Same as Middle Earth is heavily influenced by Christianism, a fact disclosed several times by the author himself publicly.
Let's be clear that it is specifically Catholicism, as stated by the author. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2276
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Posted - 2013.01.31 19:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sometime into season 2 of BSG I went back and watched an episode from the 1978 BSG called "War of the Gods Part II". In it the crew of the old BSG finds an even older wrecked Galactica on a planet, presumably from an earlier iteration of BSG. It was kind of neat. The implication was that the "Gods" are essentially cylon/humans trying to maintain some kind of balance. ...at least that was how I read it.
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Juno Valerii
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2013.02.01 00:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Sometime into season 2 of BSG I went back and watched an episode from the 1978 BSG called " War of the Gods Part II". In it the crew of the old BSG finds an even older wrecked Galactica on a planet, presumably from an earlier iteration of BSG. It was kind of neat. The implication was that the "Gods" are essentially cylon/humans trying to maintain some kind of balance. ...at least that was how I read it.
That's the episode where Starbuck dies and comes back to life, resurrected by the lights chasing Count Iblis if I remember correctly.
Love that one. All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
373
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Posted - 2013.02.01 02:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Brujo Loco wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:
But it was too inconsistent and had some bad filler episodes and the "Lets give up all technology and live like cavemen" ending was really a What the Frak! moment if there ever was one.
It was more something about cycles, the endless cycles of creation/destruction than anything else, either by choice or not. And well, you do know BSG has a healthy dosage of Mormonism dont you? The New series tried to veer a bit away from it, but maintaned a good chunk. Same as Middle Earth is heavily influenced by Christianism, a fact disclosed several times by the author himself publicly. The religious overtones are well, just that. You can still see them as matter of fact tv shows, but lose some of the intended meaning.
Yea, I get it and I didnt mind the religious overtones at all. I mean, Caprica 6 pretty much said she was an angel from day 1 and was pretty much talkign about her God throughout the entire series.
And the finale as a whole was great. The Adama/Roslin story arch was perfect and they ended it perfectly. I just didnt like the decision to forgo all tech. Just didnt seem right to me. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Juno Valerii
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
82
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Posted - 2013.02.01 11:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:
Yea, I get it and I didnt mind the religious overtones at all. I mean, Caprica 6 pretty much said she was an angel from day 1 and was pretty much talkign about her God throughout the entire series.
And the finale as a whole was great. The Adama/Roslin story arch was perfect and they ended it perfectly. I just didnt like the decision to forgo all tech. Just didnt seem right to me.
I don't think they simply abandoned all tech. I saw it as a the last remnants of a species who had grown weary. They chose to disassociate themselves from all aspects of their past. They chose to start over. It was a terribly fitting decision. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
594
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Posted - 2013.02.01 12:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Brujo Loco wrote:you do know BSG has a healthy dosage of Mormonism dont you? The New series tried to veer a bit away from it, but maintaned a good chunk. First time I've heard that and I'm not seeing it. Care to elaborate ?
Sure, first of all Glen A. Larson was a devout Mormon, the original show creator.
Quote: Originally, the series was intended to be called Adama's Ark, and the show incorporated many themes from Mormon theology, such as marriage for "time and eternity" and a "council of twelve." Larson, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in real life,[1][2] had been working on the concept since 1968, and Gene L. Coon had been providing guidance and mentoring to him through the writing of its earliest incarnations. Larson is credited with coining the word "battlestar," a contraction of the phrase "line-of-battle starship", after being convinced to rename Adama's Ark to include the word "star" in the title in some way, in order to capitalize on the popularity of the then recently-released mega-hit, Star Wars. He is also credited with creating the faux curse word "frak."
Now, as I said before, the NEW BSG tried to skim most of this, yet some of the original ideas remain
Now to avoid some issues I will capitalize some here thanks to the work of some people
Observations on the correlation between Battlestar Galactica and the LDS Church.
Note: Glen A. Larson was a member of the Mormon Church and certainly was more than aware that he was creating a parallel between the show and the church.
1. Organization: BSG: The colonies were based on a president and a council or quorum of twelve. The two words "council" and "quorum" are used synonymously.
LDS: The LDS church is headed by a president and a council or quorum of twelve. The two words "council" and "quorum" are used synonymously.
2. Origin: BSG: The colonies originated on the planet Kobol, were all life began. The "Lords" lived there. It was called "The Lost Planet of Ancient Gods".
LDS: The LDS church believes that the Lord lives on the planet Kolob (see The Book of Abraham, Ch. 3, found in The Pearl of Great Price.)
3. Tribes: BSG: The colonies were started by the 13 tribes which left Kobol and formed the 12 colonies. The thirteenth tribe was lost and is believed to have gone to the Earth. In "Saga of a Star World," Commander Adama delivered the following speech about their origins: "Our recorded history tells us we descended from a mother colony, a race that went out into space to establish colonies. Those of us assembled here now represent the only known surviving Colonists, save one. A sister world, far out in the universe, remembered to us only through ancient writings..." He goes on to assert that the "lost thirteenth tribe" colonized Earth. Something called The Book of The Word described the journey of the tribes of man away from Kobol.
LDS: The LDS church believes that the 13 tribes of Isreal were scattered and colonized the Earth. The 13th tribe was lost, but is believed to be in an undiscovered part of the Earth. Some have concluded that the Book of Mormon describes the 13th tribe and its journey to the Western Hemisphere. This is incorrect. The l3th tribe is still considered lost.
4. Egyptians: BSG: The ancient records and the culture of the colonies is based on hieroglyphics and pyramids. The fighter helmet worn in a viper strongly resembles an Egyptian Sphinx.
LDS: The LDS information about Kolob and similar topics is supported by a document called the Pearl of Great Price which contains hieroglyphics written in ancient Egypt, and translated by a modern day president.
5. Marriage: BSG: The colonists use the word "seal" in preference to marriage, and a couple is sealed "not only for now but for all the eternities." (Adama in Lost Planet of Ancient Gods.)
LDS: In the LDS church, marriage refers to a secular joining and "sealing" referes to a bond sanctified by God and "not only for time, but for all eternity."
6. Younger Wives: BSG: In "Living Legend", Apollo tells Starbuck to re-read the Book of the Word, some of the ancient leaders of the tribes "were married to some very young wives."
LDS: In the LDS church, older leaders of the church frequently have young wives.
7. Nature of God: BSG: The colonists believe that gods are progressed and more perfect and knowledgeable humans. At the end of War of the Gods, Part 2, the superior life form ("angel") uses the words "As you are now, we once were; as we are now, you may become" to explain the relationship between them and man.
LDS: The LDS church believes identically. Lorenzo Snow, an early Mormon President and Prophet, said, "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become."
Etc Etc ... easy to link up, google it, look around, etc, etc.
Even the second show which had him removed still nominally had him I think as a "Consultant".
It-¦s pretty washed up in the new BSG, but the core still remains.
Nothing wrong with that in my eyes, and please just as a warning let-¦s not derail this into you know what haha
Keep the Sci Fi thread alive! Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1144
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
BS:G never really got me. My first disappointment with its shoddy story-telling was with the "cylon detector" and how nobody ever cared to use it, and I was pretty much lost after the bullshit about how the cylons had only one resurrection ship and once lost they would not be able to ressurrect... That was so much against common sense that i pretty much watched a few episodes more, saw Starbuck die but not die and then I scrapped the whole thing from my HD.
Babylon 5 stills is the best story ever told on TV SF (minus the unnecessary, out-of-arch last season) and probably had more matureness in a single episode than whole seasons of garbage like Lost and other pseudo-SF.
(Poor SF looks like a rule these days... i recall some series that managed to lose me straight from the trailer, was a series with some plot bullshit about "electricity disappearing forever"... can't recall the name but my stupid-o-meter goes out of scale each time I recall such a shoddy unscientific plot twist) CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
968
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
Brujo Loco wrote:Comparison stuff
Well I think that answers the question of why my friends mother enjoyed the series so much. I'm going to have to point this out to him when I get home.
I just finished up rewatching the series again. My 2 favorite scenes from the whole series consists of the battle scene on New Caprica when they combat jump Galactica right into atmo, and the scene where Galactica makes its final jump and finally buckles.
As for the cylon detector, it was never guaranteed to work right or else it would have caught Chief, the XO, and his wife, and because Baltar lied about Boomer it was deemed inconsistent and unreliable, hence why it wasn't used much.
However I do agree that the Kara Thrace death, rebirth, and eventual disappearing act was a crap story arch and didn't care for that at all.
It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
373
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 17:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Brujo Loco wrote:Comparison stuff Well I think that answers the question of why my friends mother enjoyed the series so much. I'm going to have to point this out to him when I get home. I just finished up rewatching the series again. My 2 favorite scenes from the whole series consists of the battle scene on New Caprica when they combat jump Galactica right into atmo, and the scene where Galactica makes its final jump and finally buckles. As for the cylon detector, it was never guaranteed to work right or else it would have caught Chief, the XO, and his wife, and because Baltar lied about Boomer it was deemed inconsistent and unreliable, hence why it wasn't used much. However I do agree that the Kara Thrace death, rebirth, and eventual disappearing act was a crap story arch and didn't care for that at all. It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader.
Yea the Galactica atmosphere drop was a jaw drop moment for me.
I liked Kara Thrace pre death. She was bad ass. After her death, she didnt have the same impact as a character since she was something other than human.
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3391
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Posted - 2013.02.01 18:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
(Poor SF looks like a rule these days... i recall some series that managed to lose me straight from the trailer, was a series with some plot bullshit about "electricity disappearing forever"... can't recall the name but my stupid-o-meter goes out of scale each time I recall such a shoddy unscientific plot twist)
Yes Indeed.
Most of the newer 'sci-fi' shows are just near-future based twists on our current reality.
Hard SF seems to have completely vanished. EDIT: (from TV) America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
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Juno Valerii
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Brujo Loco wrote:Comparison stuff Well I think that answers the question of why my friends mother enjoyed the series so much. I'm going to have to point this out to him when I get home. I just finished up rewatching the series again. My 2 favorite scenes from the whole series consists of the battle scene on New Caprica when they combat jump Galactica right into atmo, and the scene where Galactica makes its final jump and finally buckles. As for the cylon detector, it was never guaranteed to work right or else it would have caught Chief, the XO, and his wife, and because Baltar lied about Boomer it was deemed inconsistent and unreliable, hence why it wasn't used much. However I do agree that the Kara Thrace death, rebirth, and eventual disappearing act was a crap story arch and didn't care for that at all. It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader. Yea the Galactica atmosphere drop was a jaw drop moment for me. I liked Kara Thrace pre death. She was bad ass. After her death, she didnt have the same impact as a character since she was something other than human.
Im not sure that was actually Starbuck after her death. I tend to think it was another "angel" like headsix, just in a form the humans might trust. |
Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5325
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote: It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader.
Sounds like he was fairly qualified tbh (I don't hold politicians or religion in high regard).
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's a goonspiracy. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2282
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote: It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader.
Sounds like he was fairly qualified tbh (I don't hold politicians or religion in high regard). At the end of the day if I had to pick one character the show was about it would be Gaius Baltar.
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
976
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Posted - 2013.02.02 01:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote: It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader.
Sounds like he was fairly qualified tbh (I don't hold politicians or religion in high regard). At the end of the day if I had to pick one character the show was about it would be Gaius Baltar.
Brilliant Doctor, Politician, Astronomer, Religious leader, pimp.
Gaius Baltar. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3394
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 18:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
Really, really enjoying the complete Deep Space 9 currently on Hulu.
Season 1 has a few weak spots but no truly bad episode so far. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2283
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Posted - 2013.02.04 18:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Really, really enjoying the complete Deep Space 9 currently on Hulu.
Season 1 has a few weak spots but no truly bad episode so far. You know what would be a cool one that could use a reboot? Babylon 5.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3394
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Posted - 2013.02.04 18:48:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Really, really enjoying the complete Deep Space 9 currently on Hulu.
Season 1 has a few weak spots but no truly bad episode so far. You know what would be a cool one that could use a reboot? Babylon 5.
One can always hold out hope, but then apparently J. Michael Straczynski is more fascinated by WWII at the moment: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/60722
Like......seriously and for reallz ?
Edit: just noticed in that article that one of the Producer's last names is Golightly ! I always though that was a fake name owned by the great Miss Hepburn. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Reiisha
Evolution The Retirement Club
216
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 19:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Stargate SG-1 (not so much the others)
Second half of season 2 of Universe was pretty damn awesome. Felt like the first 30 episodes they didn't really know what to do, but the last 10 were of such quality that it made me curse Syfy for cancelling it. Really makes me wonder what could have been.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
983
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 19:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Akita T wrote:Stargate SG-1 (not so much the others) Second half of season 2 of Universe was pretty damn awesome. Felt like the first 30 episodes they didn't really know what to do, but the last 10 were of such quality that it made me curse Syfy for cancelling it. Really makes me wonder what could have been.
As much as I hate syfy, I can't blame them for the show not getting high ratings. We're talking about the 3rd installment of a franchise that was already wearing thin with Altlantis followed by the fact that they were attempting to copy BSG by connecting us more with the crew and less on the overall story, which amazingly is about a bunch of people lost in space trying to find their way home, i.e. the same plot as Atlantis and BSG.
Syfy gave them decent air time, unlike Fox and airing Firefly at Sunday Midnight when everyone is asleep because they have to work in the morning, then claiming that it got no views. The idea with SG:U was that they were going to stop airing it, but continue making straight to disk seasons. Doesn't look like it ever panned out. |
Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5388
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 19:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Stargate and it's spinoffs did have a damn good run, SGU season 2 was starting to make sense towards the end, it's a shame that they didn't do the direct to disk followup though, I'm a proud owner of both BSG & SG boxsets
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's a goonspiracy. |
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Calico-Jack Daniels
414
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Posted - 2013.02.04 20:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
This and This are my preferred Sci-Fi from my youth... I go well with Quafe... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3398
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Posted - 2013.02.04 21:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Calico-Jack Daniels wrote:This and This are my preferred Sci-Fi from my youth...
Funny. I call those The Dark Days.
I love SF but I couldn't really stand either show even though I was the perfect age of 13 for them. I was reading a lot of more serious adult SF by then and I guess it took a lot to impress me.
Got Twiki's autograph at a convention anyway. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5391
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 21:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
Only two things stick in my mind about Buck Rogers, Twiki saying "bedibedi eat lead sucker" and Wilma Deerings tight/short outfits. The original BSG was cheesy, trashy and most excellent because of it.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's a goonspiracy. |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
177
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Posted - 2013.02.05 00:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
Brujo Loco wrote:Firefly was good, Babylon 5 was unparalleled in history, background and that strange sense of alien cultures, but for me Babylon 5 is like the standard to measure Sci-Fi in terms of depth. I completely agree with that. I have a theory why B5 is so unparalleled. JMS actually had the epic plot for those 5 sessions planed BEFORE he went into production. I think that was the whole secret (yeah and the excellent cast of course).
All the hints about the Shadows and Vorlons in the early series. The time travel story with B4. The different paths different characters took to unravel the secrets of the Shadows. And it all fits together because that story was planed from the start.
While I enjoyed watching DS9 and BSG, it always felt like they build up some mysteries as they go and if the time is come to uncover the truth they invent some kind of deus ex machina to solve the situation.
I understand that maybe they don't know how long the show will run and that's probably why they don't plan an epic plot that takes x seasons.
What I can't understand is why they don't create that epic plot anyway with some backup plans if they have to cancel the show early. Why would anyone put millions into a show without the epic plot already worked out?
If i'm not mistaken in BSG they didn't even know who the final five where until the wrote the script that reviled their identity. I mean for fraks sake.. how hard can it be to plan such an important thing from the start? It was so fraking obvious they just made that up as they went. frak!
And to give the final blow to my reputation: I actually think Stargate Universe had potential once all that initial whining and drama was over. So there |
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
242
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 18:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:snip...
If i'm not mistaken in BSG they didn't even know who the final five where until the wrote the script that reviled their identity. I too reviled their identity.
Karak Terrel wrote:And to give the final blow to my reputation: I actually think Stargate Universe had potential once all that initial whining and drama was over. So there It was a good show, but not something Universal knew how to deal with. Their decisions all flowed toward "MOAR wrestling!" They're in the process of doing the same thing to G4, having cancelled X-Play and AotS.
If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg |
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