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Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
21
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Posted - 2011.10.07 21:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Quark Valhala wrote:Get back on track. Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank
If you're being kited by a brick Drake, you are hilariously bad at this game.
Quote:A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range.
Bad tank? I always wonder where this comes from, since Arty Canes are entirely capable of getting the same 45-50K EHP that a typical Auto Cane has. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
23
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Posted - 2011.10.07 21:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob.
Here's a better idea.
use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
30
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Posted - 2011.10.07 21:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yeah. OP was already changed to add in, either nerf Drake or buff the other BCs CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army
6
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Posted - 2011.10.07 21:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:[Drake, Drake direct compare]
Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II
Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile E50 Prototype Energy Vampire
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Hobgoblin II x5
Dread Gurista Drake, as close to the Cyclone as possible.
427 DPS / 485 OH 91 / 859 DPS defence 60 000 eHP EM - 80% Kn - 81% Th - 82% Ex - 84%
What is it with you and posting **** fits for comparison against other **** fits |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
23
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Posted - 2011.10.07 22:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Yeah. OP was already changed to add in, either nerf Drake or buff the other BCs
Since you're here, careb to compare the drake to the myrm, cane and harby? Comparing it to a cyclone is meaningless. Tier one and tier two BCs are never going to be equal. |
Quark Valhala
Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED
2
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Posted - 2011.10.07 22:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Quark Valhala wrote:Get back on track. Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank If you're being kited by a brick Drake, you are hilariously bad at this game. Quote:A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range. Bad tank? I always wonder where this comes from, since Arty Canes are entirely capable of getting the same 45-50K EHP that a typical Auto Cane has.
And how big are drakes? And they dont need tracking they kill intes even at close range. Cant really document my next opinion/vante be wessel to, but they Are just to easy to fly pvp or pve. They do the same damege at 0.1 meters to 70. CCP should just fix defender s++ they work as good agianst misseles, like tracking disruptors does on all turrets.
Drakes make nighthawks useless becuase they just does everything better for 50mill. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
21
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Posted - 2011.10.08 01:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Quark Valhala wrote:And how big are drakes? And they dont need tracking they kill intes even at close range. Cant really document my next opinion/vante be wessel to, but they Are just to easy to fly pvp or pve. They do the same damege at 0.1 meters to 70. CCP should just fix defender s++ they work as good agianst misseles, like tracking disruptors does on all turrets.
I'm not sure what you mean by "big"...? If you're talking about popularity, Hurricanes are more popular. If you're talking about physical size, it doesn't matter.
Any inty can speed tank HMLs forever if it isn't webbed. A dualprop MSE or SAR frig can generally take a single web + HMLs and drones (assuming he's smart enough to kill them) long enough to let his DPS buddies catch up. If you want to act the dualprop frig's Grim Reaper, you need double webs to do it. Which takes your tank down to about a shield Hurricane's level. And if you want to play the "same damage from 0-70" card, drones do the same.
Also, as far as missile counters go, you can smartbomb them.
Quote:Drakes make nighthawks useless becuase they just does everything better for 50mill.
NH does more DPS. NH does need more grid, but that's a NH problem, not a Drake problem. |
Flyinghotpocket
Ascetic Virtues
1
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Posted - 2011.10.08 01:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
bongpacks wrote:Neuts in C2 space are almost non-existant for the regular anomalies save for a couple frigates here and there and one neuting BS in data sanctuaries. The mag and radar sites have a bit more neuts. Passive drake can do this without a prop mod, do a hair more DPS and not die even if it manages to get capped out.
my active tanking harbinger was doing c2's easy peasy.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2011.10.08 17:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Why would anyone think a drake is OP?
A drake is just multi function. You can either pull out a heavy tank with crappy dps, or good dps with a crappy tank.
If you balance it for tank and dps then the drake is just a typical ship with moderate tank and moderate dps.
A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles. It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles.
So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?"
Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks. It's dps suffers from this tank though.
However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank. This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship.
I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's.
Notice i'm saying better OVERALL data. There can be a t1 with a better tank, or better dps, or better range, but there isn't a t1 that is even removetly equal with all 3 areas.
Basically what I'm stating here is that tech 3 strategic cruisers are much better ships in tank, dps, and range than any battlecruiser, but yet, they're in a smaller class.
The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank.
IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another.
Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time. |
Quark Valhala
Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED
2
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Posted - 2011.10.08 20:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Why would anyone think a drake is OP?
A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles. It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles.
So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?"
Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks. It's dps suffers from this tank though.
However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank. This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship.
I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's.
The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank.
IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another.
Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time.
At least they Are worth killing tengu= 500-1000mill Drake = 50-70mill. |
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2011.10.09 01:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
This is true, but a battlecruiser is at least somewhat easier to kill with a BS. BS doesn't stand a chance against a SC.
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Quark Valhala
Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED
2
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Posted - 2011.10.09 18:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:This is true, but a battlecruiser is at least somewhat easier to kill with a BS. BS doesn't stand a chance against a SC.
Again look at price. A tengu should **** a bs... Thou pretty sure if you put a machariel, vindicator, bahlgorn, widdow or almost any other fancy bs in tengu price class i Think its one less tengu. Or it flies away But now we Are talking about nerf Drake. So lets forget about tengu. (Any way tengus Are always cloaky nulified fagot space ships) And lets get argument for or against the Drake. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
8
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Posted - 2011.10.09 19:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest.
No, that's a worse idea. Tier 2 BCs already obsolete the Deimos, Sacrilege and all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and you want to make this situation worse? All that does is remove the "tier 2" from "tier 2 battlecruisers Online". Tier 2 battlecruisers are the problem, not the solution. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
31
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Posted - 2011.10.09 20:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
There are only 8 battle cruisers.
Take Minmatar for example, Cyclone and Hurricane. The Cyclone should be able to pull off a bigger tank than it does. Hurricane is fine as it is as a gun ship.
However, it is possible to have a bigger tank on a Hurricane and more damage than a Cyclone. This doesn't seem right. For more of a sand box effect, we should have more options, not be herded into 3-4 options when we could have 8. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Alen Dee
Sexy Society of Invention and Industry
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 02:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
is it possible to look this problem from a differt angle : the trouble isn't really about the fact that the drake is really a good ship. But the fact that the others BC are really weak and useless. Even with exellent resists an armor tanker is a lot more easy to kill than a shield tanker because shields are a lot more easier to recharge. We really have to think one more time to the benefits of the shield tanking, is it natural to be able to run a shield boost oversized? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
32
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Posted - 2011.10.10 04:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Said that a few times, so have others and original post implies it.
Now, what improvements do the others need? CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
23
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Posted - 2011.10.10 04:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. No, that's a worse idea. Tier 2 BCs already obsolete the Deimos, Sacrilege and all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and you want to make this situation worse? All that does is remove the "tier 2" from "tier 2 battlecruisers Online". Tier 2 battlecruisers are the problem, not the solution.
How exactly does buffing the diemost, sac etc etc make the situation worse? |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
24
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Posted - 2011.10.10 06:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. No, that's a worse idea. Tier 2 BCs already obsolete the Deimos, Sacrilege and all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and you want to make this situation worse? All that does is remove the "tier 2" from "tier 2 battlecruisers Online". Tier 2 battlecruisers are the problem, not the solution. How exactly does buffing the diemost, sac etc etc make the situation worse?
If you introduce a few of ships that obsolete a wide range of other ships it is easier to tone down the few that screwed things up than make a complete overhaul of several shipclasses. By your logic we should boost each and every ship in eve in relation to the dramiel rather than nerf the dramiel itself. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 08:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Yeah, it's just the "no nerfs under any circumstances whatsoever" argument. Which has two main problems - firstly, that it leads to incredibly difficult balancing changes (oh look, we have to boost every frigate in the game instead of nerfing the Dramiel), and secondly, there's no bloody difference between, in this case, leaving the Dramiel be and boosting every other ship, and simply nerfing the Dramiel. Done properly, it leaves the balance of power the same in both cases, while it's much easier to do the job badly if you're attempting to change several dozen ships instead of just one. |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2011.10.10 11:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Drake is fine, when a 30 man drake fleet ganks you its because they had 30 people shooting at you.
And if you think the drake is over powered go do a lvl 4 in one solo, see you in 3 hours.
To get any decent DPS out of it you have to kill your tank, and to get a good tank you have to kill your DPS sound balanced to me. |
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Arbiter Reborn
Saiph Industries SRS.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.10 11:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
drake needs a re balance but you are incredibly incoherent
i think a few of the tier 2 bc's need a rebalance but as this is a drake thread:::
if you look at the missile line of caldari ships they tend to have rof/ 5% damage to ken, and a range bonus.
if you look at the caldari gun ships they tend to have range/damage and resist bonus.
the drake sticks out as being a missile ship with a resist bonus, bar the nighthawk and a scorp navy.
the mix of being able to do 750 dps with 80kehp and mwd scam web is overpowerd the fact it can hit out to lockrange with 80kehp with mwd point is overpowerd. the fact it can fit mwd, dual web, and still have 45k ehp without a dcII and still do 500 dps+ is overpowerd.
all other bc have to seriously sacrifice for tank or takle to get anywhere near these numbers
ferox is already a great ship with a strong tank and great damage with blasters, caldari dont need another powerful close range bc with a resist bonus. so get rid of the resist bonus. the drake would still be powerful without it. give it a range bonus and keep lock-range low.
I think tier 2 bc were the most heavy handedly introduced ship class in the game, they almost completely overshadow commandships even before t3. i dont understand why they wernt properly ballanced before iteration or why cs wernt peoperly boosted afterwards |
Mirei Jun
Right to Rule THE UNTHINKABLES
1
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Posted - 2011.10.10 13:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
To be the dissenting voice here:
The Drake is not overpowered. It does low damage in comparison to other BCs, and is fairly slow. The trade off is good range and a sturdy tank.
The popularity of the drake centers around its value in gangs of kiting ships, or as an anchor in small skirmishes with shield logistics. But these styles of fleet are well known now and easily countered. Players complaining about the drake are simply not creative enough and too lazy to think of the counters themselves, or even watch videos and/or killboards where the answer is being put right in front of them.
There are plenty of ships in the game where balance is a serious issue. The drake on the other hand, is simply "working as intended". Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
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Arbiter Reborn
Saiph Industries SRS.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.10 14:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mirei Jun wrote: To be the dissenting voice here:
The Drake is not overpowered. It does low damage in comparison to other BCs, and is fairly slow. The trade off is good range and a sturdy tank.
The popularity of the drake centers around its value in gangs of kiting ships, or as an anchor in small skirmishes with shield logistics. But these styles of fleet are well known now and easily countered. Players complaining about the drake are simply not creative enough and too lazy to think of the counters themselves, or even watch videos and/or killboards where the answer is being put right in front of them.
There are plenty of ships in the game where balance is a serious issue. The drake on the other hand, is simply "working as intended". Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
sorry but 750 dps with 80k ehp is pretty insane |
Jenshae Chiroptera
32
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Posted - 2011.10.10 15:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Arbiter Reborn wrote: sorry but 750 dps with 80k ehp is pretty insane
No it isn't! Lalalalala!!! Can't hear you! CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Nephilius
Pillage and Plunder Salvage Co.
3
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Posted - 2011.10.10 17:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest.
This. Stop with the nerfs and start buffing things. Nerfing is the ez button, a crappy solution to people QQing. Incidentally, I'm not even sure why this thread exists, the PvE aspect of the game is pretty self-contained and shouldn't affect others in such a manner. Make CQ and WiS an option, not a must.-á I don't play EvE for the toon spinning. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
105
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Posted - 2011.10.10 17:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
The drake needs to remain a viable ship to run C2 sites and anoms. However, the other BCs should also be. I'm in the camp that the other BCs need a little lovin'.
Why nerf the drake when you can boost the harby? Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
32
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Posted - 2011.10.10 17:18:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nephilius wrote: I'm not even sure why this thread exists, the PvE .
Cookie cutting. Anti-sandbox effects. Market skewed. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Slammer's Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.10.10 19:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Why would anyone think a drake is OP?
A drake is just multi function. You can either pull out a heavy tank with crappy dps, or good dps with a crappy tank.
If you balance it for tank and dps then the drake is just a typical ship with moderate tank and moderate dps.
A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles. It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles.
So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?"
Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks. It's dps suffers from this tank though.
However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank. This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship.
I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's.
Notice i'm saying better OVERALL data. There can be a t1 with a better tank, or better dps, or better range, but there isn't a t1 that is even removetly equal with all 3 areas.
Basically what I'm stating here is that tech 3 strategic cruisers are much better ships in tank, dps, and range than any battlecruiser, but yet, they're in a smaller class.
The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank.
IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another.
Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time.
What part of Tech 3 vs Tech 1 are you missing? The Tengu costs about 10 times as much as your tech 1 Battleship too. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
9
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Posted - 2011.10.10 20:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nephilius wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. This. Stop with the boosts and start nerfing things. Boosting is the ez button, a crappy solution to people QQing.
I fixed your post. Honestly, it's far more accurate like this. Perpetual boosts and the subsequent cancer of power-creep occur because people are too scared of hurting people's feelings to be brave enough to make the right decision. Far easier to boost things and let the idiots think that boosting one ship isn't a relative nerf to all the rest. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2011.10.10 20:57:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Drakes are very good at pve, they're ok at pvp, if your battleship can't take one though you're doing something wrong like using hybrids
Fixed 4U
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