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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.05.30 12:46:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande
- a ship with jump drive not being able to move or warp for an extended amount of time after a system jump, combined with constraints regarding logging a jump drive equipped ship off
OMG .. what a thought ... I hadnt considered. The dreadnought that loggs off if attacked with enough force. Down to 10% and only 5 minutes to go, tackled, webbed, outgunned .... poof
--------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
mahhy
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Posted - 2005.05.30 13:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Derisor Problem ? No problem man ... thats what keeps me playing ... mmmmmm fleet battles. Im a noob to PVP in eve but I swear some of the things ive seen in the last 2 weeks (50 foundation ships moving in a fleet) just make me want to resubscribe for 10 years. =)
"Problem" was meant for those trying to blockade a system... a bigger force descending upon them can generally be thought of as a problem, for them
Anyhow, if you're participating in large FA fleet battles I'm surprised you're not making threads about the only *really* major problem in this game: lag Oh and ships vanishing long before the 2 minute logoff timer "exploit" thingy is exceptionally annoying too.
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.05.30 13:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Skyraker7 These Dreadnoughts are going to be horribly, horribly expensive...
Personally I can't wait for one of them to leave empire... because it will be toast.
Maybe....
Depends on if the pilot is using his brains.
I expect they'll eventually be a lot like Battleships, a powerful, expensive fighting tool that is a victim waiting to happen if used carelessly.
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Kara Kaprica
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Posted - 2005.05.30 13:20:00 -
[34]
You are also asumming that Dreadnoughts will be outrageously powerful. Battleships can be killed by Interceptors. It is simply what a Battleship is to a Cruiser, much bigger and stronger, but with that size and power comes weakness. Fear. Want to lose something like that in pvp recklessly? Activate your jump drive and jump in on top of a massive camp at your scanned jump in point? Point Blank, under your guns tracking?
There are many ships in this game that have the ability to kill ships much larger than them with the right set-up.
As to economy, if the Jumpdrive itself is very expensive to operate, then the trader using it is going to RAISE the price on his goods to cover his costs. Yes it might be harmful to the varied regional prices but i do not see something that will cost ISK where as Warp Drive is free reducing prices. Its just not good buisness.
"Vengence delivered, on time and cold as ordered" |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.05.30 13:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande a ship with jump drive not being able to dock at standard stations or player starbases [/list]
How exactly would they fit modules? :P
And don't say they can refit in the field. It would make them even more uber. Use travel setup, then change over to PVP setup in destination system.
Potentially, they have to be built at a POS (which makes a lot of sense to me, if you want an Uber anti-Pos ship you have to have your own POS out there at risk) if they are, then the hassle of requiring them to use a maintenance array to fit modules is peanuts compared to the hassle of building them
Its all speculation though right now, I'm expecting CCP to wuss out and have them built like any other ship . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Derran
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Posted - 2005.05.30 17:05:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Derisor
And what do you think that would do to system blocades? Think about it man. You are experienced pvper I believe. These ships would be used to pass up blocades. There would be a string of anchored targets in space that people would use to jump to; allowing them to totally rampage any system they want. No more control of who gets in or out. Intel would be useless as they can safe spot jump to safe spot jump. Then all you need is one bookmark to a gate overlook sniping spot further out than even BSes can hit and you have a massively unbalancing force in the game.
You mean like you can avoid a blockade now with instas? While a person can be caught on the otherside, assuming the blockade is setup so this is possible, chances drop drastically against interceptors. You can also travel pretty quickly using the same method. And if I was that blockade being sniped at by a dreadnaught, I'd be warped out long before I was targetted, send in a cloaked covert ops to orbit the dreadnaught and then warp to the covert ops to get under the optimal of the dreadnaught and kill it. There is also talk of a warning of a warning in the system when a jump drive capable ship is coming in. These large ships are supposed to be known for shifting the tidal patterns of a planet after all.
I'm not as concerned as you because alot of things are going to feed back in on themselves. I do anticipate the system jump will cost alot of cap and as well as have an extended cooldown period before it can be done again. It may also turn out to be scalable thing if they make it so you can jump more than one system at a time. There may even be a consumer goods fuel cost to it too, kind of like a POS.
Running cargo from one system to another with a dreadnaught would be harsh. While you are using your cargo space for whatever else regular cargo, you have no ammunition for your cargo. And assuming there is a large cap drain and you want to use boosters, they use up a ton of cargo space too. I doubt the cargo space would make it worthwhile to do this regardless. Use an industrial ship with instas. It will likely be more efficient.
And while I am sure the arguement is there that one can readily afford a dreadnaught or jump drive capable ship, don't forget level 4 missions are also on the block to be changed as well. I do run them myself pretty easily but if 3 groups of ships bear down on me (plans are to make more groups aggro when shot at if I read the blog right), it tends to be over (either by them killing me or me warping away).
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Gerome Doutrande
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Posted - 2005.05.30 17:19:00 -
[37]
personally i tend to think of dreadnoughts and other ships as being extremely slow moving (50 m/s should be fast for a dreadnought), there should be no bfs sized mwds or afterburners, and maybe the ships shouldn't have the ability to warp but would have to do "in system jumps" (where the stuff like cooldown mentioned in the post above or what i called recharge times would apply). so in short with a real "capital ship feel", which is in my opinion missing from eve so far.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.05.30 17:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Derisor
And what do you think that would do to system blocades? Think about it man. You are experienced pvper I believe. These ships would be used to pass up blocades.
Honoes people would have to come up with tactics other then focussing fire on anything that comes trough a star gate?
Itll be fun to see what happens to alliances when the NWO and jump drives come out. Fee for all 0.0 access for the win ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Larno
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Posted - 2005.05.30 18:15:00 -
[39]
In the dev blog it says: Quote: ...it serves as quite an adequate anti-battleship machine, having the firepower of a couple itself and the defenses a bit more than a couple...
So we see here it's hardly a moving fleet. Also I think the jump drives will have severe limitations, perhaps you could only jump to adjacent constellations or regions and I'm sure it will be very expensive in terms of fuel costs. I'm sure the ship itself will be very expensive aswell.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.05.30 18:54:00 -
[40]
You're worried that something that's gonna be prenerfed to hell and back, and will cost ungoldy amounts of isk both in getting and using, is gonna destroy the economy in 2 hours flat, don't you think you're exxagerating just a tad? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
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Kade Shaderow
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Posted - 2005.05.30 18:57:00 -
[41]
OH NO NEW FEATURES COMING OUT LETS PANIC ABOUT THEM BEFORE WE'VE EVEN SEEN WHAT THEY CAN DO
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Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2005.05.30 20:06:00 -
[42]
The way I see it, the solution is MASSIVE cap use and the jump beacon. You need to fuel the jumpdrive with cap charges like a weapon, and when you jump it takes all those charges AND 3/4 of the ships cap. You'd jump out of the system near a gate and into the system at a planet where the beacon was anchored. You'd also be able to gang jump the ships close to the Dreadnaught.
The idea is this: The dreadnaught and it's fleet approach an uncamped gate and start to charge the jump engines. In 3-5minutes the jumpdrive charges and the fleet jumps to the next beacon placed and anchored by an advance scout. (probably flying a covert ops ship) When the fleet jumps in, the jumpdrive needs to be reloaded, (10 seconds or so) AND the cap needs to recharge (20 to 30 minutes) before the next jump. Of course the cap charges that the jumpdrive uses would be so massive that you wouldn't be able to carry enough for more than a few jumps so you might have to buy fuel in the system, OR bring an indy with a mobile fuel factory. This would be an indy-only module that would convert common minerals to cap charges. This would mean that for long trips PART of your fleet would need to be an indy and mining ships just to provide fuel. (unless you can dock an buy some)
Once the Dreadnaught is fueled and cap charged it moves to a gate and starts charging the jump drive. If there's a camp there, they fight. If there's a camp somewhere else that's paying attention they warp over and try and deploy a mobile jump disruptor and they fight. The jump disruptor would have a 60 second anchor time and would keep the fleet from jumping out while it's operating.
This system would make the jumpdrive a FLEET only weapon. You'd require fuel haulers or producers AND time between jumps. It would require smaller ships for it's protection while it recharges. And it would force the fleet to hold the proximity of a gate when jumping out.
It could also be COUNTERED by a fleet. They'd have to be in your system for at least 35 minutes so you'd have time to attack. They' have to travel in a group so they'd be hard to miss coming into local. They'd probably be traveling with weak haulers or fuel producers that they'd need to protect. They MIGHT need to mine for fuel so you could catch them at a belt. They'd HAVE to use a gate to jump out so you could send a scout to each one while they're still recharging. And the jump could be delayed with a module worth a few million isk. (mobile jump disruptor)
In short, titans/dreadnaughts would become a fleet combat weapon rather than just an indestructable hauler or solo BS.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.05.30 21:29:00 -
[43]
from what im seeing said of these dreads is they will take a corp efferd too make and use and that they are basicly a moving space station, with weopon systems onboard. this is fine with me, they should be.
i think somone had also said too me that you can dock ships in them and move with these ships in them. if they cant this should be done too them asap. think of it man, with jump drives we could jump 20 or more systems deep in one jump, then launch small raiding fleets or npc hunting party's or just mining crews. the dread could eather cloak too hide or join in on the fight.
thay would also make great blockade runners for small hit teams or comando units if you wont too call them that or fast setup blockaders.
these ships cant work alone do too the cost of them, so they have too work in tandom with small fleets. also you should for the jumping pay a price in time befor you can jump again. (ie) the farther you jump the longer it takes too jump again. this would mean you could endup unwisely putting you dread at real risk of getting traped in a system should it lose its fleet and get found buy drones looking for a cloaked dread.
industrialists would use these ships aswell in the same way but just not for combat ofcorse. but take the same risks using them.
these ships should not beable too jump no more then 10 to 20 gates from any empire system.
what types of ships and how many of them they can pack is upto the dev's too workout.
i cant wait too see these ships, this is what we need in eve. more content not tuns more skills too keep us playing.
so in the end i dont see a problem with these jump drives at all. i think they will do real justice in the end for alot of diffrent reasons if they just dont let you get off too easy using them.
f- the money thing too use them, make it a time risk too use them. we cant have this loggen crap with these ships eather so this game got too deal with that in a real way.
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DoctorDanny
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Posted - 2005.05.30 22:37:00 -
[44]
......
Covert opps frigate has located a large mining operation in low sec empire and drops off beacon at a safe-spot.
TunDraGon and Teddy forces man their assault frigates and interceptors and dock with the newly aquired dreadnought. Dreadnought jumps to aforementioned low sec system and the frigates undock and do their thing.
....
Man I can see it allready. Must start mining now so I can afford a Dreadnought....
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.05.30 23:00:00 -
[45]
Very expensive fuelcells and a jumpdrive core that have a tencency to break would be comforting.
Convert Stations
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Domalais
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Posted - 2005.05.31 03:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: DoctorDanny ......
Covert opps frigate has located a large mining operation in low sec empire and drops off beacon at a safe-spot.
TunDraGon and Teddy forces man their assault frigates and interceptors and dock with the newly aquired dreadnought. Dreadnought jumps to aforementioned low sec system and the frigates undock and do their thing.
....
Man I can see it allready. Must start mining now so I can afford a Dreadnought....
A dreadnaught is not a carrier or a titan. I don't believe it will be able to carry other ships.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.05.31 05:02:00 -
[47]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 31/05/2005 05:06:15 Edited by: OffBeaT on 31/05/2005 05:03:43 well if its not the dread that can do that then the titan must of been the ship i was thinking off.
somone said somthing too me one time about one of these new ships being able too move with docked ships in her.
i say make dreads able too carry frigs/interceptors. titan's upto BS class. im told carrier's can only do drones.
i think the ships would be much more tactically usful this way and a hell of alot more fun.
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DK Metz
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Posted - 2005.05.31 05:10:00 -
[48]
he he find the jump in point wait with ****load of nice bs and kill the dreadnoughts... gonna be so much fun seing people whine of loosing 1 bill isk ships... ________________________________ Radio for YOU
Carbide industries Elder Gank squad alpha |
Derisor
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Posted - 2005.05.31 07:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kade Shaderow OH NO NEW FEATURES COMING OUT LETS PANIC ABOUT THEM BEFORE WE'VE EVEN SEEN WHAT THEY CAN DO
I prefer to avoid the oncomming train than to deal with medical or funeral bills if it somehow hits me.
Silly huh? --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.05.31 08:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Derisor
Originally by: Kade Shaderow OH NO NEW FEATURES COMING OUT LETS PANIC ABOUT THEM BEFORE WE'VE EVEN SEEN WHAT THEY CAN DO
I prefer to avoid the oncomming train than to deal with medical or funeral bills if it somehow hits me.
Silly huh?
Unless the oncoming train happens to be a figment of an overactive imagination.
Silly huh?
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.05.31 09:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: MutationZ
Originally by: Derisor
Originally by: Kade Shaderow OH NO NEW FEATURES COMING OUT LETS PANIC ABOUT THEM BEFORE WE'VE EVEN SEEN WHAT THEY CAN DO
I prefer to avoid the oncomming train than to deal with medical or funeral bills if it somehow hits me.
Silly huh?
Unless the oncoming train happens to be a figment of an overactive imagination.
Silly huh?
Then it doesnt harm anything to discuss it does it? I would rather waste my time discussing how t avoid the train then just wait and see if its real or not. There is a probably chance that the train is real and a good chance that the trian is lethal. I want to head it off at the pass so to speak.
And if the thread irritates you, there is a simple solution. Dont reply. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
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