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Irony Maiden
Doomchylde Industries Virtue of Selfishness
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 12:21:00 -
[241] - Quote
Gryd wrote:edit: trolling removed. fly ships you can afford to lose!
Best advice so far. |
Charles Lee Ray
Liberty Prime Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 12:56:00 -
[242] - Quote
I always go with the Drake (typical Caldari) as it is a fairly inexpensive ship and easy to fit. With excellent tanking capabilities and awesome missile bonuses, what more could you ask for? |
Rias Bane
Thundercats
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 14:12:00 -
[243] - Quote
I would go minmitar and start with the rifter, there's a good reason so many people suggest it and the Assault Frig Variants are excellent too, then go Thrasher and aim for a Sabre, it's a great ship even in empire as it is exceptional for taking out frigs even the fancy faction boom boxes like Drams and Daredevils, and opens up all sorts of doors for Null Sec too.
Then Go rupture (500dps in a t1 cruiser , lovely!) and start aiming for the Hurricane then Tempest/Maelstrom.
I would go for Minmitar in generel as they are multi discipline meaning the the supporting skills for engineering and electronics can be easily transferred to other races as can the secondary gunnery skills and primary and secondary missile skills can also transfer meaning access times to efficent use of other race vessels is greatly reduced minus the specific recon/ewar based skills. In short they take the longest to master and use well but they are the skeleton key of Eve they focus on transferrable skills and as such ar excellent for opening up new doors as you develop as a player...go minmitar, the options from there are endless.
Plus I would add having been core caldari for pretty much my fist 18months in Eve, you will envy the vesratility and speed of minmitar ships and will hate the training times to cross to them from missile only boats.
And as an experienced falcon pilot I can say I'd rather come up against a falcon than a rapier or a huggin because if they catch up to you, you aint getting away :(
However if you wanna just grind missions the drake is for you Via the Merlin/Kestrel and Caracal route, all good boats but limited imho |
darkdooku
Abraxsys Bloodbound.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 17:00:00 -
[244] - Quote
Most fun Level 4 Amarr boat: Bhaalgorn. Not typically known for PVE, but it is nearly indestructible if flown right and can solo any level 4 and finish it with ease. If that doesn't fit your wallet here's a ship great for passively missioning: Dominix, solid tank and drones bring the dps. Also T2 large pulse destroy, so if you are training lasers, definitely train t2 pulse,wish I had trained it sooner.
For starting off ships, I flew a Punisher that could run lvl 1s and 2s with ease and even some level 3s (not very efficient though). |
Alaric Faelen
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 17:14:00 -
[245] - Quote
fairly new player myself, here is my .02
Don't worry about 'better' ships, worry more about a better character. As mentioned, the Nav and Engineering skill trees are more important than a new hull.
The path of progression for most pilots is similar at first. Usually an expensive PvE fitted ship for missions/mining/COSMOS whatever- then a bevy of cheap, throwaway frigates and cruisers to PvP with. Forget the mountains of 'this is the uber build for this boat' nonsense and fly them cheap. I could care less about 'best named' or tech II modules on a 200k frigate I expect to lose in under a minute- all the modules in the world won't make you a better pilot, so if you are a mission-runner type, outfit throwaway ships with loot where possible. Doesn't matter if it's the best of the type or the most basic.
So that is my advice- pick up skills to fly a couple races' frigates to 5, choose a frig favorite so they are cheap and available- Rifter, Kestrel, etc- and outfit them with loot where possible. Go out and fight- solo, small gang, whatever.
Learn on these throwaways. No, you will not automatically lose without that extra 2% bonus for using a looted module instead of spending isk on the best named or whatever- at least not so much as you can simply say "If I had that 3% more of DPS/range/etc then I'd have won"- take fitting advice and web sites are suggestions, not gospel. Combat in Eve is not won or lost on EFT. Don't be a spec sheet pilot!!!!!
The tech II frigs are fairly versatile, but beyond that tech II ships quickly become very very focused (usually in support of a fleet) and actually offer less options for play. EW and Logi, for example, see very limited use outside of PvP. While the ships are certainly cool, chances are you won't be needing them until you are experienced and filling specific roles in a fleet.
Not that I claim to have played my toon perfectly- but for what it's worth, here is what the past six months have led me to for ships- Fly 2 races frigs to level 5, another to 4 Cruisers to 5 for one race, 4 for two others BC's to 4 Stealth Bombers, Electronic Attack Ships, and Interceptors
Haven't gotten into BS sized ships yet. Can't really afford to buy one, less likely to be able to lose it in PvP, and to be honest I am more useful to any fleet in a smaller ship.
New players may be looking at weeks of grinding low end missions or mining to even afford a single tech II ship, much less be able to afford it's loss. I've owned two SB's and lost them both after killing a single ship with each. Bad luck- 60+mil lost. That's PvP in Eve.
Lastly, let me suggest something I dislike myself-- given the choice between an isk-making ship and a fancy PvP boat- go with isk. For example- right now getting into a Drake is on par with the cost of a Hound when all outfitted. The payout diff between level II and III missions is huge enough that getting the PvE ship and grinding even more PvE is usually worth it so you can get those better PvP hulls faster. Loot is also better so using loot for outfitting is feasible. It may be hard to set up yet another PvE ship (especially early on when you run mostly solo) instead of getting that shiny SB. However, that better PvE ship will likely keep you in PvP ships far longer than that SB.
Instead of getting better ships, get better at flying the ones you can already. Nothing better than a YouTube vid of a Rifter popping some massive ship costing 20 times as much.
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Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.10 19:52:00 -
[246] - Quote
T1 frigs, T2 frigs, T1 cruisers.
I learned in the Taranis.
I think T2 frigs are a fair way to learn. Quick to train for, give you some options, lots of reasonable choices. Get you to train good support skillz.
If you can't get into the frig thing then you should probably find a cruiser that works for you. It's hard not to recommend the Rupture. It's such a superb ship.
Big fan of the shield fit. |
Mortrius
Defenders of Order
7
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Posted - 2011.10.10 20:42:00 -
[247] - Quote
I have to say that after two accounts over the last several years, you should start with a racial cruiser, then work your way into a racial battlecruiser. The cruiser skills will be useful later on, and battlecruisers are always useful. You can make ISK or fight, and they will last you more than enough time to get your support skills high enough to take on more specialized ships. |
Bravega
Fleetworks ROMANIAN-LEGION
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 21:20:00 -
[248] - Quote
I like Caldari, missile boats are easy to use and all you have to worry about is the max range of your missiles and the size of the ship your trying to kill. The rest of the race's have guns or lazers where you have to worry about min range and max range, you also have to worry about. out of all the Caldari ships I fly I like the drake the most. you can set it up for PVE or PVP with ease, it's great is large numbers.
With good battlecruiser skills the drake can be extreamly hard to kill |
Lieutenant Brooker
Space Morons Something Posing As Meat
1
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Posted - 2011.10.10 21:50:00 -
[249] - Quote
Khaemwese wrote:Guardians and Scimitars, because having the "I won't let you die" button is more important than the "I win" button :)
To the contrary, having the "I won't let you die button" leads to you being able to press the "I win" button. |
Andy Landen
Cryptonym Sleepers
2
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Posted - 2011.10.10 21:56:00 -
[250] - Quote
Deviana Sevidon wrote:Train Drakes and anything passive shield-able, just as everybody else. The balance problem has been ongoing for a very long time and might go on a few years more until CCP begins to see a pattern. The Time Dilation is already in motion on the test server to solve that problem. Active tanks will soon have their place in blob warfare. |
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KowKow
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 22:20:00 -
[251] - Quote
Seems like almost all the ships have been promoted in this thread. Frigates are fun, the Rifter is the best. But in Cruisers, there are different variations. I am assuming a new player is one with under 2 months of skill points. In which case, frigates, cruisers and BC's would work nicely. The thing about BC's is that you can run missions, do pvp, and hold up against incoming fire and not pop immediately.
Now lets quickly think about a new player with lo skills who want to live. I would probably say, the cov op ships are great because you can cloak... but with low skills, I would assume a new player can tank anything in either shield or armor very effectively, so I would suggest a FAST speed tank setup. You can get your need for speed simply by using a microwarp or an afterburner on your ship. This would probably work best in tandem with a frigate or a cruiser for the new player.
Assuming you like to go fast, not worry about tank because well, you have no skills, and like to stay alive at little cost, a frigate/cruiser thats speed tanked will be your best bet within say 2 months of starting. Once you can tank with armor or shield a little better, and you have speed tanking under your belt, you can move on.
The best part about learning to speed tank is not that is your best chioce as a new player, but as you get better and buy more ships, you'll understand how to speed tank them too, which is a seriously effective method for the avid pvp player. So its a skill that you will use in the future as well. Nothing learned is unused, ever. Some of the top players speed tank ships like the t2 Vagabond, the Cynabal, and the list can go on....
That's my 2 cents... |
Philpip
Masonic Templar Warfare Industries
1
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Posted - 2011.10.11 03:35:00 -
[252] - Quote
Jeicam Mmis wrote:Hulks are best, please train more hulks!
Lol, does that mean the next Hulkaggedon is almost here |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2011.10.11 05:03:00 -
[253] - Quote
Wow, I can't believe I read every single post in this thread. All had good advice. A lot of them said it depends on what the new player want's to do. Only a few said what the new player should do.
I'll also say what I think the new player should do.
Train up the core fitting skills as soon as possible. This will make it much easier to fit up any ship you decide to fly.
Do not rush into larger ship class until you've got good high level skill set pertaining to that ship class. Level 4 or 5 on all skills.
Make sure any fitted ship you fly, including Implants and Medical/Jump clones, can be easily and quickly replaced with ISK or Assets.
Never wait to warp out if things start to go bad. He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.
Last but not least, have fun.
Good luck to you all.
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Leshiye
Shadow Haven Silver Twilight Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 05:59:00 -
[254] - Quote
When I began in Eve, it became apparent that level one missions were not going to rake in a massive amount of ISKies for me. I tried everything to make things better for myself. I was combat minded and wanted to have the most powerful weapons I could get to blast missions to smithereens and move quickly up the ranks via sheer brute force of Will.
But Eve is not so much an instant gratification Mecca, as I have come to appreciate. Planning became the name of the game after a couple months of finding my way to that realization. I downloaded EveMon and Eve Fitting Tool and planned out my training track and chose my next ship based upon the kinds of missions I wanted to run in Empire Space. The Ship progression went something like this:
Merlin (Taught me the basics.... the very raw basics) Coercer (cheap, good DPS and very fast) Drake - FOREVER... Because it is the most incredible ship in the game (and most hated) Cerberus (dumped bc I had no clue about speed tanking) Drake - For more Forever bc it is constantly and forever the one ship I can and do rely on for all the weird stuff I run into. Night Hawk - When you get to this point, you are semi skilled and running level 3's and maybe 4's Solo. 58 million Skill Points in and this **** is still my preferred mish running ship. Nothing else is faster and it has an AFK level 4 mission tank on it after you spend some quality time on your compensation skills for shields.
Key point here is, STAY SMALL.
Stay small and fast.... it usually either makes you victorious or keeps your butt alive.
Fly safe
Lesh |
Salvia Olima
Carnivale. Merciless.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.11 06:46:00 -
[255] - Quote
Dramiel. It has one of the best survivability in the game and not that hard to train for. Slippery little boat. Choose a cloaky tengu or two for wingmen, go out and hunt for ppl. |
ShadowNeo29
Atlantide corp Ares Protectiva
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 08:29:00 -
[256] - Quote
Drake is the best way for begin in EVE. |
iNFoRMaLiTY11
Lone Star Exploration Narwhals Ate My Duck
1
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Posted - 2011.10.11 09:56:00 -
[257] - Quote
As amarr, go for arbitrator, get T2 modules and at least mediocre drone skills, after that you should know whats your future path.
For other races ship ther are smarter people than me here. |
Dannerkongen
1st Recon
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 10:26:00 -
[258] - Quote
DOMINIX. |
Lostinthesofa
Raptus-Regaliter PURgE Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 10:41:00 -
[259] - Quote
My absolute favorite ship is the thrasher and sabre both in look and flying although you cant do really high lvl mission with them or do any pvp outside a huge fleet its my favorite ship to fly spent my first months in it :) my second favorite ship is the hurricane xD |
Umbriele
Natural Inventions Solyaris Chtonium
2
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Posted - 2011.10.11 11:19:00 -
[260] - Quote
Obelisk is my favorite, no need to think about fitting |
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Kelmor Malbeth
HellJumpers Corp Indecisive Certainty
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 11:44:00 -
[261] - Quote
not really for new players, but T3`s have a lot of versitility, although i`d guess the ship i fly the most is a blockade runner... quick into and durring warp, warps cloaked, can use covert jump bridges, and has a bit of a cargohold. although notthing beats a freighter for sheer haulage.
in summary it`s a case of the right ship for the job, but for new players i`d recomed getting racial cruiser to 5 to open up the t2 / t3 cruiser choices to have some fun with. |
Shad0wsFury
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:10:00 -
[262] - Quote
Thanks CCP, your new forums are AWESOME.
I spent like an hour writing a helpful advice-laden post, and when I hit the "POST" button, all my text disappeared and nothing was posted. Ballin'
So instead of being constructive, I'll just say F-you CCP.
New players: Don't bother training for any ONE ship, CCP will change things anyway and the ship you spent 6 months training for will SUCK BALLS and you'll have to start training something else, so CROSS TRAIN.
Also, properly fit your ships, no sense in flying a crap fit failboat to your doom, at least fit your ships right (T2 fittings, if you can fit them, go DOWN the size ladder till you can), and find someone who knows what they're doing to teach you PvP.
PVEers: I have no idea what you should do, lol shooting rats and/or rocks is boring as hell, imo. |
Indorian
Reunincapacitators Nabaal Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:31:00 -
[263] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:No contest - it's got to be the Rifter. It's quick and easy to train for, and so good that experienced pilots can work miracles in them. Plus of course the Jaguar and Wolf are IMO the best assault frigates out there. It's just an excellent ship that everybody should fly, even if they have to cross-train.
the Kestrel comes a close second, mind you.
This times over 9000. The Rifter will teach you everything you need to know about pvp combat if you give it time.
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Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
2
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Posted - 2011.10.11 13:34:00 -
[264] - Quote
Shad0wsFury wrote:Thanks CCP, your new forums are AWESOME.
I spent like an hour writing a helpful advice-laden post, and when I hit the "POST" button, all my text disappeared and nothing was posted. Ballin' .
QFT.
I copy before sending anything now. I hope CCP fixes this soon, it's really annoying and can discourage us players that just want to help new citizens.
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Mother Fokker
Miner Tech
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:18:00 -
[265] - Quote
If you think you will stay in eve for long train either artillery or missile boats. They are more versatile in damage types dealed. Since i am unfamiliar with missiles though here is my lest of ships a Novice should aim to perfect in order to have the Ultimate fun in game.
Rifter Rupture Cyclone Tempest
once you got the isk go for the mighty Machariel. Its a ***** to train for perfection but once you have all its needed skills to L5 its as exciting as throwing turpentine in a baby's bathtube.
For laxed travelign around go for the Viator. Good tank can warp cloacked and can transport allot of stufff around.
oh, i allmost forgot. HULK there is no denying it, best ship in game. |
Kais Rah
The Red Exhilez Chaos Theory Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:32:00 -
[266] - Quote
Not to pissoff anyone who enjoys using the raven or navy raven, but I have to disagree with it being the top PVE ship for the caldari, I've used one and truth be told I like the rattlesnake much more. It is the only ship that I know of that you can jump into a lv4 (and some 5's) release the drones and go watch a movie or get a bite to eat without worrying. though if you get one make sure to get your shield,drone and either torp or cruise missile skills up high enough to really make good use of them. Finally don't be cheap on the fitting, if you just laid down 550 mil to buy the ship splurge a little for some faction resistance amps you'll make your money back pretty quick doing 4-5's , no need for faction invulns though (unless you really want to spend that much extra)
As for PVP. gotta say Minny all the way, A Tempest with Either tec 2 autocannons or meta 4 ones is pretty beastly. (put a pair of neuts on it too for extra fun) |
Lothar Krellum
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
2
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Posted - 2011.10.11 15:38:00 -
[267] - Quote
Two step wrote:Bhaalgorns are clearly the best. Noobs should be shooting for flying one of them... :)
Most noobs cannot afford a ship that costs nearly a billion isk just for the hull. Drake is a more likely ship a noob will look at buying and to be honest i think the Drake is the best ship in the game for newbie pilots looking to do missions etc at a price they can afford and be able to do level 4 missions with ease.
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snake1972
Sonic Industries Sonic Kitties Preservation Society
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 17:39:00 -
[268] - Quote
What should a noob train for? That's a tough question. Whatever it is they should have skills to equip it. I like the Rifter or Rupture. These are 2 solid ships that you can equip well with meta 3 and 4 mods and still have a well fit ship. I think noobs rush to battle cruisers to quickly. I think the battle cruiser needs to be mostly t2 fit in the mids and lows with meta 3 or 4 in the high. Noobs who loose BCs early have a tough time getting new ones. Noobs remember if you can't afford to loose it don't fly it! |
Syllar Stobar
Rubicon Extraction Services
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 20:45:00 -
[269] - Quote
Having recently brought several players into Eve for PvE play I have to say that the people I've managed to keep playing Eve all followed the drake path.
The Drake Path: Kestrel->Caracal->Drake Train fitting skills, Standard Missiles up to 3, Missile Launcher Operation 5, and lots of Engineering skills. Toss in Jury Rigging 3, Shield Rigging, a couple levels of Electronics and Weapon Upgrades, Afterburner 4, and finally Hull Upgrades 4. Toss in Heavy Missiles at the end and you can have a mostly tech 2 fit tanking Drake in about 17 days.
It takes another 15 or so days to get Tech 2 missile launchers which you want only for their cost efficiency over Arbalests though you may need to add another 5 days to that for better fitting skills to handle their additional power grid/CPU cost.
That means they can get into a well fitted drake in about the time it takes for their "refer a friend" account pass to expire. Though, once they sub theyGÇÖll have about 4 hours of training to get into the drake. They should have plenty of money if they did the Tutorials and the Eve starter epic arc which I also highly stress to my new to eve friends.
A couple of reasons into why this recommendation: I spent about an hour and a half trying to explain to a friend how Projectile Damage works. In contrast I spent about 5 minutes explaining the complexities of missiles.
In summary: Missiles: Your Targets speed, Sig Radius, and Distance matter. The Smaller the target the less damage you do, the faster the target the less damage you do, if itGÇÖs out of range you do no damage, use EFT to figure out your range. Train Missile skills to ignore most of that when you have time. Finally, new players should only worry about two ammo types for missioning, Kinetic against almost everything, and EM for everything else (because of the 15-25% Kinetic damage bonus based on training). Ignore assault missiles for PvE, their damage bonus is crap compared to the range loss.
Proper turrets are much MUCH worse to explain: for Projectile, Hybrid weapons, and Lasers you need to know about, speed, sig radius, distance of enemy, distance for falloff, distance for optimal, angular velocity, tracking speed, damage type, capacitor use, and ammo type (short range/medium range/long range) which all affect your damage. Then youGÇÖll want to use Eve survival to look up damage types to know what ammo you should bring as youGÇÖll want Medium range improved tracking for most targets, and low range High damage for harder to kill targets. Depending on the mission you may also want long range low damage ammo as youGÇÖll deal more damage at max targeting range if youGÇÖre using artillery. Compound this by the ridiculously short range of Autocannons and Blasters and the horrible tracking of artillery and Pulse Lasers and you now need mechanisms to fix their flaws which is either tracking enhancers and webs for Autocannons (so you can hit the fast moving swarming frigates which seems backwards but even with their better tracking speeds they are still too low) or Drones, Missiles, and Afterburners for artillery as anything that gets close and moves fast is pointless to try and kill with those gunsGǪ
Another hour later I have a confused friend.
Drones are actually easier to explain but their training time and ship availability make them less of an option. Few people want to fly lima beans through space, and even if they like the idea of drones getting into a drake is a good start as you then go into a Gila which is a solid level 4 mission runner in my experience. Alternatively you can fly some very nice Pirate ships (the ones I recommend to my drone friends) but they are incredibly expensive compared to their non-faction versions.
Of the five people I have helped bring into the game three are currently playing. They ALL went missiles and Drake. The other two tried to do something different. One went Hybrid Guns (as much as I tried to sway them from that route) and quit because it took them 2-3x as long to clear missions as the missile boats did. The other went drones and got bored before they really got into any of the interesting aspects of the game.
Of the people playing Drakes, one is heading towards a Caldari Navy Raven, one is currently flying a ridiculously over powered Tengu, and the other is heading towards Covert Ops/Stealth Bombers with a Tengu mission runner.
I would have loved to bring more players to Minmatar but my own experience with the race has been one of jealousy. While it will eventually pay off, the training time is extreme. What I have noticed is that my friend in the Tengu that started three months after me has a significantly easier time killing in level 4 missions with a similar tank. His Tengu can pull 400dps at maximum targeting range (80k), and a passive shield tank with an EFT value omni-tank of 400 on a good looking ship. To get anywhere near those DPS numbers in my Loki I have to use drones and short range ammo meaning I have to be within 15k of my target. To get anywhere near that range I have to use long range ammo that hits for only half of what my short range ammo does. The ship is powerful and a really good place for new players to target for level 4 missioning. With the flexibility it offers they have several avenues they can start exploring to see if they enjoy that gameplay.
Thus, the drake is a great way to set up a player for mission based financing of their careers. ItGÇÖs pretty easy to bring a 3 week old player into level 4GÇÖs with an experienced pilot to help clean up. TheyGÇÖll only be pulling 150-200 dps but theyGÇÖll be able to survive long enough with a basic tank to at least leave the mission if they get too much aggro. Inside a week or two of moderate missioning (2-3 hours a night, or 10-12 hours a week) they should have enough money to fund whatever ship they want to get into next.
_WAter_ |
Zillam Reynardine
Red Soul Black Dream
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 21:18:00 -
[270] - Quote
Dominix.
I **** you not.
The Dominix is one of, if not the most versatile battleships around. And, as far as battleships go, it's one of the cheapest (Jita prices are around 50m at the time of this post).
Want to solo mission for quick, easy ISK? Stick combat drones in your potato, mount some salvage and tractor beams (or guns, if you'd rather blast things and don't care about the salvage), and go. Dominix can trivially active armor tank L4s. (I spent my first six months or so flying a Domi doing exactly this while I skilled for the Ishtar and Proteus; the only thing I ever feared were Blood Raiders and their NOS).
Want to mine? Same deal; drones and mining lasers.
Want to fly PVP? Find some friends, pack cheap drones and your favorite set of guns. Don't forget to buffer tank the hell out of your spud.
You'd rather do logistics? Sure, the Dominix can do that. Repper drones, remote armor/shield reppers in your highs, go!
Mind, the Dominix is not the best at what it does. The Ishtar is a better droneboat (and can passive tank, if that's important to you), the Proteus is a better PVP slugger (300k EHP buffertank fit), there are entire classes of mining boats and logistic boats that can far outstrip what the Dominix can do...
...But the Dominix does all of these things, and it doesn't fail horrendously at any of these things - and for a newbie who doesn't know what they want to do, the space spud is a good way to explore several different paths. |
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