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ZionShad
5
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Posted - 2012.12.24 19:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
During the latest Episode of Podside (iTunes Podcast), we were joined by CSM member Hans Jagerblitzen to speak on what he could about the CSM winter Summit. During the discussion Hans was asked if there was any portion of the summit that didnGÇÖt go smoothly or as planned, Hans replied about the section of GÇ£DUST 514GÇ¥. He simply put it that while CCP was presenting the Dust portion of the summit to them, they just simply lacked any knowledge of the game due to the fact none of them (outside of Hans) play the beta or interact with the DEVs involved with DUST 514. He went on to say that they where then given a GÇ£Crash CourseGÇ¥ about DUST 514 and will have more meeting (over comps) to come about DUST due to the lack of interaction and of enthusiasm for the game. It was interesting to hear how though none of these individuals play DUST still didnGÇÖt hold some of them back from speaking against the game.
The topic was then brought up by Hans about DUST being represented in the CSM. He stated that though it probably wouldnGÇÖt be possible this year for DUST to have its own counsel, he spoke about how he could see someone being elected on the current CSM to represent DUST 514 (Granted the Votes are there)
I am unsure of the plans of CCP with DUST 514 being represented on the CSM, but it dose seem clear to me that it is needed in 2013. This first year is the most important.
NOTE: This is a topic I had placed on the DUST514.com Closed beta forums and brought it here to get Capsuleer feedback Zion TCD CEO ( ZionTCD.enjin.com ) Co-Host "Podside" Podcast on iTunes DUST 514 Beta Tester -á |
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
107
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Posted - 2012.12.25 16:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
I do not see one member in Eves CSM gaining any traction on getting anything done for Dust really.
I believe Dust will need its own CSM to have the most objective feedback to CCP to help the game as a whole. The current and past CSMs are pretty focused on the CSMs own priorities in game. That being 0.0, blob warfare and anything that supports it. We have seen a little thrown at lowsec in the past couple years but I do not see Eves CSM contributing in a meaningful way towards Dust other than saying it needs to have an impact to be worth it and balanced.
Let dust players have the say on what Dust players need on planets in their own CSM. Not just a small voice in a crowded room about Eve IMO.
The best scenario would be to have 2 CSMs saying what each side of New Eden needs after they have their own summit and CCP figuring out how to mesh it and what to throw away. My 2 isk whats its worth |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1205
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Posted - 2012.12.26 11:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't think the base is present to get a Dust CSM voted in, and giving dust players the vote would lead to much vote rigging since its free-to-play. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
ZionShad
10
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Posted - 2012.12.27 16:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I don't think the base is present to get a Dust CSM voted in, and giving dust players the vote would lead to much vote rigging since its free-to-play.
Scatim just a couple question not making a point.
By Base do you mean Number of Players during Open Beta?
& If DUST was given the right to vote would you agree to only accounts that have credit card info or AUR transactions be given that right?
Thanks Zion TCD CEO ( ZionTCD.enjin.com ) Co-Host "Podside" Podcast on iTunes DUST 514 Beta Tester -á |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1227
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
ZionShad wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:I don't think the base is present to get a Dust CSM voted in, and giving dust players the vote would lead to much vote rigging since its free-to-play. Scatim just a couple question not making a point. By Base do you mean Number of Players during Open Beta? & If DUST was given the right to vote would you agree to only accounts that have credit card info or AUR transactions be given that right? Thanks I mean 'base' in the political sense of the word - the people who can be relied on to vote in a particular way. In this case, the 'base' would be CSM voters who care enough about Dust over and above everything else to vote for whoever is standing as 'The Dust Candidate'. I'm not sure there are all that many of them around.
Limiting voting to those who have paid for items in Dust would limit alts and non-players from involvement, but I'm not sure if that's really the best way to go, or how that would fit in with CCP's 'paying for dust won't give you any advantages' policy. As things stand, the link between the two is so tenuous that we're effectively talking about two separate games and if anything, it'd be better to give Dust its own council than allowing Dust players to vote in the existing CSM.
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2231
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
i will run on a platform of representing spawn campers / introducing technetium to scalding pass |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1266
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Posted - 2012.12.27 21:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:i will run on a platform of representing spawn campers / introducing technetium to scalding pass
I'm nostalgic for Scalding Pass in its own terrible way, please take good care of it :3 Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
198
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
The CSM are advocates for EVE's spaceship game and how this game operates. DUST is a different game - they interact but that interaction will be more "meta game" style than environmental.
As such, DUST will need it's own version to deal with issues that make no sense in EVE, just like many of our issues would be meaningless in that game.
No I really don't see a need for "and these rifle graphics SUCK! " to be brought up to EVE developers but I can see where some interaction points might be of mutual interest to both game communities yet that "rifles" type issues is like our "tengus need a nerf bat!"
No - no mixed CSM that way. Keep them separate and if anything "combined" style is needed, each side can drop their version of "angry reps" on CCP. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2417
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Posted - 2012.12.28 03:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
I haven't listened to what Hans said exactly on Podside, but I think you might be misquoting him somewhat. I have played DUST a little, and Kelduum has played it a fair amount. The main focus at the summit was not at all on DUST itself, it was on how it links into EVE, and that is a topic that you don't need to be an expert DUST player to understand.
As I said in the 10 or 12 other "DUST should be on the CSM" threads, you guys are *way* premature. How about you let CCP finish getting DUST out the door first, and see how many people are playing DUST 6 months or so after release. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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ZionShad
15
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Posted - 2012.12.28 03:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Two step wrote:I haven't listened to what Hans said exactly on Podside, but I think you might be misquoting him somewhat. I have played DUST a little, and Kelduum has played it a fair amount. The main focus at the summit was not at all on DUST itself, it was on how it links into EVE, and that is a topic that you don't need to be an expert DUST player to understand.
As I said in the 10 or 12 other "DUST should be on the CSM" threads, you guys are *way* premature. How about you let CCP finish getting DUST out the door first, and see how many people are playing DUST 6 months or so after release.
Yes the main focus of the Summit was and the main focus of the CSM is on EVE Online, I never stated that it was not. My statement is what I herd from a member of the CSM and a short reply to that.
You may listen to the Podcast at S8.multiplexgaming.com Under the Podside link (#63) or wait until it is released on iTunes.
Edit: Wouldn't a new CSM be chosen in 6 months leaving DUST with no representation for over a year? Zion TCD CEO ( ZionTCD.enjin.com ) Co-Host "Podside" Podcast on iTunes DUST 514 Beta Tester -á |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5869
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Posted - 2012.12.28 08:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
DUST has to become relevent to EVE before the players get CSM representation.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1191
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Posted - 2012.12.28 08:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DUST has to become relevent to EVE before the players get CSM representation.
On this I would say maybe. It might be nice to have preemptively acted if the game is released and goes really well so the PS3 player base feels more in control of the games future but that could of course be a waste of time if the game falls flat on its face. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5881
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Posted - 2012.12.28 10:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
A compelling link demonstrated in open beta would suffice, although that'll probably be too late for this year's election. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
ZionShad
15
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Posted - 2012.12.28 14:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DUST has to become relevent to EVE before the players get CSM representation.
I don't see why EVE should dictate what happens in DUST 514, but I do see where reprsentation interaction needs to happen.
Here are the interaction that have been listed and are planed outside of the NDA for EVE/DUST514
Corporations
GÇó You can join any Corporation in EVE Online or DUST 514 GÇó You can be a CEO or director of any Corporation in EVE Online or DUST 514. (This mean that it is possible for a DUST 514 Corp to own Null sec SOV.) GÇó You can accept members from both EVE Online and DUST 514 GÇó
Comunication
GÇó You will see EVE Online playersGÇÖ character names and portraits and vice versa GÇó Strategize and fight together in real-time
Planets
GÇó Planets taken over by DUST Mercs will effect SOV Conquring in Faction Warfare (This feature is already in effect) GÇó Orbital Bombardments allowing fire power from Space to the Planet GÇó Sky Fire Batterys will allow Fire from the Planet to Space GÇó Planitary Interaction will be effected by DUST in the future
Market
- Infantry Items have already been placed on the Market
LINKs: Player Corps Welcome to Chromosome
*Adding List to OP Zion TCD CEO ( ZionTCD.enjin.com ) Co-Host "Podside" Podcast on iTunes DUST 514 Beta Tester -á |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1214
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Posted - 2012.12.28 14:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Biggest problem I see with Dust reps on the CSM is how much do they get to influence eve and how much does EvE get to influence Dust.
Also what happens if you have say 2 Dust reps of the 14 and Dust dies with bugger all players or how many Dust reps should they have if it suddenly gets 2 million players after release 5 times that of EvE players.
Maybe they need their own CSM thingy and then the 2 can discuss the links between the 2 games. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5887
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Posted - 2012.12.28 14:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Biggest problem I see with Dust reps on the CSM is how much do they get to influence eve and how much does EvE get to influence Dust.
Also what happens if you have say 2 Dust reps of the 14 and Dust dies with bugger all players or how many Dust reps should they have if it suddenly gets 2 million players after release 5 times that of EvE players.
Maybe they need their own CSM thingy and then the 2 can discuss the links between the 2 games.
I think such considerations must wait on the success (or otherwise) of Dust. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
ZionShad
16
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Posted - 2012.12.28 15:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Biggest problem I see with Dust reps on the CSM is how much do they get to influence eve and how much does EvE get to influence Dust.
Also what happens if you have say 2 Dust reps of the 14 and Dust dies with bugger all players or how many Dust reps should they have if it suddenly gets 2 million players after release 5 times that of EvE players.
Maybe they need their own CSM thingy and then the 2 can discuss the links between the 2 games. I think such considerations must wait on the success (or otherwise) of Dust.
Agree. Don't misunderstand me here. I am not talking about throwing someone in there today. I'm simply wanting you to have a open mind for when the time comes a few months down the line and to also understand whats going on as of now.
If anything at all those who run this year to represent DUST should play and understand EVE in a general regard. Not every CSM member is of full understanding of every aspect in EVE Online. This is why members like Two Step run under platforms such as Worm Holes or in the case of Hans its Faction Warfare. Zion TCD CEO ( ZionTCD.enjin.com ) Co-Host "Podside" Podcast on iTunes DUST 514 Beta Tester -á |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
2230
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Posted - 2012.12.28 15:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DUST has to become relevant before the players get CSM representation.
Apologies to Malcanis for editing his post slightly, but the above quote is now fixed and correct. Read it over and over. Now go write it 100 times. Read that too. Burn it into your skulls. It is THE most relevant statement at this moment in time.
Now, I have no idea what has or has not been said by other CSM members, but I'll just say this plainly - CCP is not even THINKING about a DUST CSM. At. All. "Yeah, maybe we will do that one day." is literally it. We on the CSM have asked about it and that's the answer we've gotten for two years now.
Let me also clarify one other thing - DUST isn't even a real game yet. It's a thing in beta that may or may not be released in the next 6-12 months, at which point it will have to cross a lot of lines before CCP considers funding a whole other group of nerds to fly to Iceland.
I hope DUST makes a billion dollars and is solid gold, but right now it's still vaporware and CCP isn't yet looking at it as something that needs specific player representation on the level EVE does with the CSM. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
2230
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Posted - 2012.12.28 15:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
ZionShad wrote: Not every CSM member is of full understanding of every aspect in EVE Online.
I guess it depends on what you consider EVERY aspect. No one can be a 100% expert, but there are a few of us that can certainly talk about most of EVE with quite a lot of experience.
ZionShad wrote: This is why members like Two Step run under platforms such as Worm Holes or in the case of Hans its Faction Warfare.
This happens because we only have 65k people voting instead of 150k. Until voting passes a certain threshold and voters are more concerned about the game as a whole instead of their own little corner of it, candidates will continue to campaign to specific demographics within the community. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
ZionShad
16
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Posted - 2012.12.28 19:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Seleene wrote:ZionShad wrote: Not every CSM member is of full understanding of every aspect in EVE Online. I guess it depends on what you consider EVERY aspect. No one can be a 100% expert, but there are a few of us that can certainly talk about most of EVE with quite a lot of experience..
-This is true and that is why I did not state all. You can't argue though that every member of the CSM perform the duty's they were elected for ether.
-The statement made in Post #18 seems to be directed to Post # 2 and I agree. Once the game has been out for sometime and not only has it proven itself, but it's community has proven itself as well, a full CSM for DUST 514 could happen then. I'm simply looking for baby steps here and making sure DUST still has a voice after the beta. Even if its through one individual.
-I was not in Iceland but following your tweets, speaking with other CSM member and hearing what Hans had to say on our show, it seem to me that CCP was presenting the DUST portion of the summit to the wrong set of eye and you all needed to be schooled.
Thanks for the input man I'm glad you chimed in Zion TCD CEO ( ZionTCD.enjin.com ) Co-Host "Podside" Podcast on iTunes DUST 514 Beta Tester -á |
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
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Posted - 2012.12.29 05:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DUST has to become relevent to EVE before the players get CSM representation.
Precisely this.
Effects on PI, depending on their nature, will make it relevant but if they've been fleshed out internally, we haven't heard about it. Affecting nullsec sov by warring over planets in that space would make it relevant, affecting empire fees (a losing faction hikes taxes as a wartime measure, for example) would make it relevant, etc.
Affecting FW system control, which is the only concrete link we've seen? Not relevant, or not relevant enough. You may know me better as Corestwo: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/corestwo
This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3687
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Posted - 2012.12.30 12:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
ZionShad wrote: -I was not in Iceland but following your tweets, speaking with other CSM member and hearing what Hans had to say on our show, it seem that CCP was presenting the DUST portion of the summit to the wrong set of eye and a few of you were schooled.
It may seem that way, but they were indeed showing the right thing to the right people.
CCP wasn't simply talking about Dust mechanics in general and "educating" ignorant CSM members about a game they don't play, they were outlining the development of the game with regards to how it links up to the EVE universe. The frustration I mentioned was that CCP hasn't done a great job of having the Dust 514 team keep in touch with the CSM regarding the progress of the link development, which is material that wouldn't (and couldn't) be disseminated even to the beta participants as the same trust level simply isn't established. We have our own NDA and are shown features in much earlier states.
One of my major concerns that I've spoken openly about is that right now, I can't really offer feedback about whether or not EVE players will care about the link in its current form. And the closer we march towards the day Dust 514 will be consider "launched" and that question of "why should we care about any of this?" isn't sufficiently answered, the more I fear for its commercial success. EVE players caring about Dust is a pretty major requirement for the whole dual-platform integrated universe thing to be used (with any integrity) by the marketing departments.
What we learned at the summit is that a lot of that concern may be mitigated if the Shanghai studio keeps in closer contact with us moving forward, and to their credit they took the time to catch us up to speed on some future Dust / EVE gameplay touchpoints that are in the pipeline to help alleviate our frustration and skepticism.
Seleene and Mynnna are both spot on - until Dust 514 matters to EVE players, a Dust 514 community rep (that doesnt also have an extensive EVE background already) sitting on the CSM would be a poor use of a seat. We don't spend any time tweaking Dust 514 as a game itself, that is being handled just fine between the beta community and the developers directly. It's hard to argue the community doesn't have a voice in making Dust 514 a better game because they don't currently have a CSM rep. What would be valuable however is someone who understands both games intimately and can help ask tough questions and make good suggestions on how to build that link moving forward.
Regardless of the community's concerns, the fact that EVE Online and Dust 514 are on a collision course (even in slo-mo) is very clear to me, and I think its a bit naive to discount Dust 514 as "vapor-ware" implying that CCP doesn't actually have a game they've sunk money into and need a return on financially. They certainly can't afford to work on Dust 514 indefinitely, there will be a reckoning sooner or later, success or not. Future CSM's won't be doing their jobs if they don't pay attention to how this experiment plays out. And if not the whole group, they'll need at least one person who knows what they're talking about with regards to Dust 514. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
976
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Posted - 2012.12.31 11:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
At this point Dust dosn't needs a "CSM' of it own, beacause EVE has it don't means Dust have to ?
As a free2play game Dust player vote can't be equal to EVE player vote ? |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1421
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Posted - 2012.12.31 11:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:At this point Dust dosn't needs a "CSM' of it own, because EVE has it don't means Dust have to ?
As a free2play game Dust player vote can't be equal to EVE player vote ? Is this where we get signs and go picket CCP
"PS3 owners are people 2" "Equal rights for FPS players" "Free play = Freedom from oppression" "You may pay subscriptions but Dust players are not your servants" "The game is called DUST, NOT treat them like dirt"
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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ZionShad
19
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Posted - 2012.12.31 15:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
It looks as though the verdicts are in from the Capsuleer community about DUST. DUST and it community is worthless unless those that play EVE deem them otherwise.
Looks like our fate is now in your handGÇÖs. What will you do with it?
Zion TCD CEO ( ZionTCD.enjin.com ) Co-Host "Podside" Podcast on iTunes DUST 514 Beta Tester -á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6741
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Posted - 2012.12.31 16:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
ZionShad wrote:It looks as though the verdicts are in from the Capsuleer community about DUST. DUST and it community is worthless unless those that play EVE deem them otherwise.
Looks like our fate is now in your handGÇÖs. What will you do with it?
Where do you get "worthless" from? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
981
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Posted - 2012.12.31 16:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:ZionShad wrote:It looks as though the verdicts are in from the Capsuleer community about DUST. DUST and it community is worthless unless those that play EVE deem them otherwise.
Looks like our fate is now in your handGÇÖs. What will you do with it?
Where do you get "worthless" from? No one said so |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1294
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Posted - 2012.12.31 18:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:ZionShad wrote:It looks as though the verdicts are in from the Capsuleer community about DUST. DUST and it community is worthless unless those that play EVE deem them otherwise.
Looks like our fate is now in your handGÇÖs. What will you do with it?
Where do you get "worthless" from? The voices in his head. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6767
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 20:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Why don't I get voices its not fair MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2347
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Posted - 2012.12.31 21:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
ZionShad wrote:It looks as though the verdicts are in from the Capsuleer community about DUST. DUST and it community is worthless unless those that play EVE deem them otherwise.
Looks like our fate is now in your handGÇÖs. What will you do with it? The CSM was created to placate the EVE playerbase over a perceived lack of transparency between ourselves and CCP management. Why something created to solve an EVE-based problem should automatically carry over to DUST is something that needs to be justified. If CCP came out with WoD, would we need to consider WoD representation on the CSM as well? |
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